BU 2017 Season Thread II: Terriers rising

[BU Fan 84]

Re: BU 2017 Season Thread II: Terriers rising

Sullivan would have been better choice back in 2013....Parker brought kids in started on 4th line or sat sometimes and developed players into Junior or Senior leaders. Name the 1 player Quinn has developed in his 4 years?

I don't think Sullivan would have been a better choice - I think he has always wanted to be an NHL coach and if he took the job at BU, he would leave at the first chance he got.

I don't know what to tell you about the idea of players developing under Parker. Did they really? Did Ryan Whitney get any better? Kenny Roche? Dan Spang? What happened to Kevin Schaeffer? Mark Mullen and Frantisek Skladany? Greg Johnson? Ken Magowan? Most of the guys who did develop under Parker since 2000 did so while Quinn was associate head coach.

I also don't understand the assertion that Quinn hasn't developed anyone since he became head coach. MacLeod and Somerby are much better now than they were when they first came to BU. Say what you want about McAvoy's more recent struggles, he is still a better player now than in October 2015. Krys has shown a good deal of improvement over the past couple months. Keller, Greenway, JFK, Carpenter have all improved significantly. Going back to the past two seasons, O'Regan, Rodrigues, Grizz, Lane, Hohmann, Moran. Look at the improvement we got from Ahti. I think it is silly to suggest he hasn't developed a single player in the past four years.

[BU Fan 84]

Re: BU 2017 Season Thread II: Terriers rising

My 2 cents...

- Albie O'Connell is the one doing the recruiting and has landed a lot of talent - Quinn doesnt deserve as much credit as he gets for recruiting. Issue is that BU now is just seen as stepping stone before players turn pro. Players are "free agents" and are playing for the name on the back not the name on the front. Getting high end talent is great but the drawback is they are in it for themselves and not for the team. They are looking at staying at BU for a short time before moving on. Its how high end players think and the issue with having a team full of them is what you see in games like last night. Harvard isnt close to being as skilled as BU but they play for each other and not for themselves. You need to build a team an having top tier studs is a must but having too many is a risky proposition as selfish goals will cloud the goals of a team. Granted BU has enough talent to just chuck a puck out there and they can win most games but when they need a team win its not going to happen.

Thank you. I have been saying this for two years now (to widespread criticism), but you have put it more succinctly than I. Perhaps I clouded the message by using phrases such as "lack of leadership and continuity" and "need for older players" but you were much more direct. I didn't want to accuse anyone of being "selfish" and thought that the message would get through without my having to say that, but I was apparently wrong.

People should get the message loud and clear now after reading your post.

I strongly disagree with all of this. Yes, Albie is recruiting, but Quinn recruits the players, too. College head coaches are very involved in recruiting. Sure, Albie is doing the leg work and the scouting, etc. But the idea that "Quinn doesn't recruit because he's the head coach" is so wrong. Furthermore, don't forget the work Quinn did when he was in Albie's position. They had a few pretty good recruiting classes in the mid to late 00's.

The rest of this drivel ... I don't even know where to begin. What evidence do you have that players are selfish or only concerned with getting to the NHL? Who has said BU is just a stepping stone? Who has played at BU and left early for the pros under David Quinn? You guys are talking about it like this happens to us every season and we are just getting gutted by early departures. As far as I can recall, Eichel is the only player under Quinn to leave BU early (before/without graduating) to play professional hockey, and if you paid any attention to him, the way he carried himself, the way he represented the team and school, and the things he said in interviews, then you would know he wasn't selfish, it wasn't just a stepping stone, and he put in the effort, worked hard, and did everything correctly.

If you are referring to Greer, Piccinich, Fortunato, and Baillargeon, then I think you are way off base. Those guys sucked at BU compared to their supposed level of talent and they weren't going to get the playing time they wanted. You can hardly blame them for wanting to try something different. I don't think it is selfish to try to pursue other opportunities since they weren't even contributing at BU.

I think the idea that the players are lazy or not putting in the effort is very far from reality. Aside from the two games this season against Merrimack, I have not seen an issue with effort from this team over the past three seasons. If anything, they are trying too hard. They psyched themselves out last season and this year they are doing a great job doing exactly what Quinn has instructed them to do.

This idea that they are lazy or entitled or whatever is just ridiculous and there is a complete lack of evidence to support it.

[Harry Cleverly]

Re: BU 2017 Season Thread II: Terriers rising

Did you guys notice that McAvoy was wearing an A last night? Is Quinn rotating the 2nd A? When Olsson went out, I thought Hickey got it.

Rotation.

[BU Fan 84]

Re: BU 2017 Season Thread II: Terriers rising

Also, the refs were ****ing horrible last night. The only thing worse than the officiating was how BU played. I didn't recognize these morons so I assume they were ECAC refs?

What a soft call on the Bellows interference penalty. So stupid. You can't call interference on a player who is directly in front of another player and who is skating in the exact same direction. If you call a penalty in that situation, you are literally penalizing someone for not skating fast enough. That is so dumb.

I don't understand why BU's fourth goal against BC last Monday was disallowed but Harvard's first goal was not. Both pucks were partially covered. Furthermore, how many times have pucks been loose and resting on top of a goalie's arm or chest and a BU player tries to knock it back to the ice and they get called for a slash? Why wasn't that a slashing penalty last night?

No idea why boarding wasn't called when Hickey was injured. Was he not checked down into the boards? Andy Brickley said he wasn't hit from behind so no boarding penalty but being hit from behind isn't a component of boarding. It was a worse hit than the two boarding penalties called on BU earlier.

The hooking call on Fabbro as the first of two penalties on the second 5x3 was a horrible call. He lifted the Harvard player's stick with his stick. That's not a hook, it's a great defensive play. He should be doing that every single time he's on the ice.

[bothman]

Re: BU 2017 Season Thread II: Terriers rising

Very good team and aren't top-heavy with weak D and bottom 6 forwards like some of the Vesey teams. That said, doesn't make up for the fact that BU was skating around like chickens with their heads cut off last night.

Bingo. Harvard had ZERO puck moving D last year which meant Vesey and others consistently had to come back and get the puck as opposed to being hit in stride on the break out and thus able to leverage their speed to create scoring opportunities. John Marino and Adam Fox bring about a dimension that Harvard has not had recently and next year, they bring in another one in Reilly Walsh.

[bothman]

Re: BU 2017 Season Thread II: Terriers rising

Also, the refs were ****ing horrible last night. The only thing worse than the officiating was how BU played. I didn't recognize these morons so I assume they were ECAC refs?

What a soft call on the Bellows interference penalty. So stupid. You can't call interference on a player who is directly in front of another player and who is skating in the exact same direction. If you call a penalty in that situation, you are literally penalizing someone for not skating fast enough. That is so dumb.

I don't understand why BU's fourth goal against BC last Monday was disallowed but Harvard's first goal was not. Both pucks were partially covered. Furthermore, how many times have pucks been loose and resting on top of a goalie's arm or chest and a BU player tries to knock it back to the ice and they get called for a slash? Why wasn't that a slashing penalty last night?

No idea why boarding wasn't called when Hickey was injured. Was he not checked down into the boards? Andy Brickley said he wasn't hit from behind so no boarding penalty but being hit from behind isn't a component of boarding. It was a worse hit than the two boarding penalties called on BU earlier.

The hooking call on Fabbro as the first of two penalties on the second 5x3 was a horrible call. He lifted the Harvard player's stick with his stick. That's not a hook, it's a great defensive play. He should be doing that every single time he's on the ice.

No offense, but when you are outshot by nearly 3x, the refs don't seem like the primary problem.

College refereeing is what it is. There were bad calls both ways and Harvard should also have been called for a Too Many Men penalty in the 3rd period. McAvoy also likely should have gotten a major for his hit on Kerfoot given that that kind of hit can end seasons.

[BUtogether]

I strongly disagree with all of this. Yes, Albie is recruiting, but Quinn recruits the players, too. College head coaches are very involved in recruiting. Sure, Albie is doing the leg work and the scouting, etc. But the idea that "Quinn doesn't recruit because he's the head coach" is so wrong. Furthermore, don't forget the work Quinn did when he was in Albie's position. They had a few pretty good recruiting classes in the mid to late 00's.

The rest of this drivel ... I don't even know where to begin. What evidence do you have that players are selfish or only concerned with getting to the NHL? Who has said BU is just a stepping stone? Who has played at BU and left early for the pros under David Quinn? You guys are talking about it like this happens to us every season and we are just getting gutted by early departures. As far as I can recall, Eichel is the only player under Quinn to leave BU early (before/without graduating) to play professional hockey, and if you paid any attention to him, the way he carried himself, the way he represented the team and school, and the things he said in interviews, then you would know he wasn't selfish, it wasn't just a stepping stone, and he put in the effort, worked hard, and did everything correctly.

If you are referring to Greer, Piccinich, Fortunato, and Baillargeon, then I think you are way off base. Those guys sucked at BU compared to their supposed level of talent and they weren't going to get the playing time they wanted. You can hardly blame them for wanting to try something different. I don't think it is selfish to try to pursue other opportunities since they weren't even contributing at BU.

I think the idea that the players are lazy or not putting in the effort is very far from reality. Aside from the two games this season against Merrimack, I have not seen an issue with effort from this team over the past three seasons. If anything, they are trying too hard. They psyched themselves out last season and this year they are doing a great job doing exactly what Quinn has instructed them to do.

This idea that they are lazy or entitled or whatever is just ridiculous and there is a complete lack of evidence to support it.

If it isn't effort and it isn't coaching then I guess they just aren't any good...my god they just got outshot 48-17 by Harvard...but I guess they just psyche themselves out...guess there is nothing to be done but just pat them on the back and send them out there...what is this PeeWee hockey and guess what there are quite a few players on this team that suck compared to there supposed level of talent too

[Harry Cleverly]

Re: BU 2017 Season Thread II: Terriers rising

Out of BU's "WJC7", Keller is the only one whom I feel has elevated his play coming off that tournament. Greenway and Harper have pretty much gone AWOL (I think Harper has already hit "the wall"), McAvoy's game has regressed a bit IMO, Fabbro hasn't demonstrated significant nor regression, and Bellows remains a maddening enigma. I leave Oettinger out of this since he didn't see game action in the WJCs and I think he's still the least of BU's concerns.

BU laid an egg in the Beanpot final. Pure and simple. Anything else is pure conjecture.

Harvard had greater determination, simply wanting it more. Yeah, the ECAC officials were pretty shaky. Those two boarding calls weren't real penalties and the "trip" by McAvoy was much more of a loss of control/dive than a penalty. But the bottom line is that Harvard wanted it more, played much better and were deserving winners.

As for recruiting, you bring in the best talent that you can. Period. The only exception would be if there are character issues, and you foresee potential problems. But other than that, you bring in the best talent that you can.
Never apologize for bringing in top quality talent.

BU was not as motivated as Harvard last night. That does not mean they weren't motivated, just not as much. I doubt anyone was thinking of their draft position or signing NHL contracts before, or during the game.

BU is under-performing at the moment. Greenway and Harper have been shadows of their first-half selfs. McAvoy is playing too undisciplined. He would get eaten alive at the next level the way that he is currently playing. He can sometimes make up for his indiscipline with his great skating ability, but that won't help help where everyone can pretty much already skate like him now.
JFK has been off the boil, too.

Two upcoming games against a UNH team that score, and also give up goals by the boatload, may be exactly what is needed to shake them out of their malaise.

[Lemonade]

Re: BU 2017 Season Thread II: Terriers rising

I strongly disagree with all of this. Yes, Albie is recruiting, but Quinn recruits the players, too. College head coaches are very involved in recruiting. Sure, Albie is doing the leg work and the scouting, etc. But the idea that "Quinn doesn't recruit because he's the head coach" is so wrong. Furthermore, don't forget the work Quinn did when he was in Albie's position. They had a few pretty good recruiting classes in the mid to late 00's.

The rest of this drivel ... I don't even know where to begin. What evidence do you have that players are selfish or only concerned with getting to the NHL? Who has said BU is just a stepping stone? Who has played at BU and left early for the pros under David Quinn? You guys are talking about it like this happens to us every season and we are just getting gutted by early departures. As far as I can recall, Eichel is the only player under Quinn to leave BU early (before/without graduating) to play professional hockey, and if you paid any attention to him, the way he carried himself, the way he represented the team and school, and the things he said in interviews, then you would know he wasn't selfish, it wasn't just a stepping stone, and he put in the effort, worked hard, and did everything correctly.

If you are referring to Greer, Piccinich, Fortunato, and Baillargeon, then I think you are way off base. Those guys sucked at BU compared to their supposed level of talent and they weren't going to get the playing time they wanted. You can hardly blame them for wanting to try something different. I don't think it is selfish to try to pursue other opportunities since they weren't even contributing at BU.

I think the idea that the players are lazy or not putting in the effort is very far from reality. Aside from the two games this season against Merrimack, I have not seen an issue with effort from this team over the past three seasons. If anything, they are trying too hard. They psyched themselves out last season and this year they are doing a great job doing exactly what Quinn has instructed them to do.

This idea that they are lazy or entitled or whatever is just ridiculous and there is a complete lack of evidence to support it.

Fair retort but we will have to agree to disagree. As most coaching setups the asst coaches do 90% of the recruiting and the head coach signs off on offers when it gets to that point so they deserve a bulk of the credit in my opinion. In terms of players playing for themselves rather than the team I fully stand by that. Looking at the roster and how many of the current BU players will stay for 4 years...its a small percentage. Therefore they arent fully invested in the team nor the university. Its just another team they are on for the short team until they move onto the next uniform. Thats not how it is for other programs where kids play for 4 years and are fully invested. Do you think Kentucky basketball players are fully invested in their team success or are they focused on self improvement moreso as they move onto the NBA...hint they care way more about individual stats than team stats.

[Lemonade]

Re: BU 2017 Season Thread II: Terriers rising

Also, the refs were ****ing horrible last night. The only thing worse than the officiating was how BU played. I didn't recognize these morons so I assume they were ECAC refs?

What a soft call on the Bellows interference penalty. So stupid. You can't call interference on a player who is directly in front of another player and who is skating in the exact same direction. If you call a penalty in that situation, you are literally penalizing someone for not skating fast enough. That is so dumb.

I don't understand why BU's fourth goal against BC last Monday was disallowed but Harvard's first goal was not. Both pucks were partially covered. Furthermore, how many times have pucks been loose and resting on top of a goalie's arm or chest and a BU player tries to knock it back to the ice and they get called for a slash? Why wasn't that a slashing penalty last night?

No idea why boarding wasn't called when Hickey was injured. Was he not checked down into the boards? Andy Brickley said he wasn't hit from behind so no boarding penalty but being hit from behind isn't a component of boarding. It was a worse hit than the two boarding penalties called on BU earlier.

The hooking call on Fabbro as the first of two penalties on the second 5x3 was a horrible call. He lifted the Harvard player's stick with his stick. That's not a hook, it's a great defensive play. He should be doing that every single time he's on the ice.

Outshot 42-17. Enough said. Blaming refs for anything is weak sauce. If anything the refs missed a too many men which happens and they went lightly on McAvoy for his blatant dangerous trip.

[brassbonanza]

Re: BU 2017 Season Thread II: Terriers rising

No offense, but when you are outshot by nearly 3x, the refs don't seem like the primary problem.

College refereeing is what it is. There were bad calls both ways and Harvard should also have been called for a Too Many Men penalty in the 3rd period. McAvoy also likely should have gotten a major for his hit on Kerfoot given that that kind of hit can end seasons.

BU lost because they played like garbage, not because of officiating.

That said, the officials were a disaster. The Harvard guy bats the puck out of Oettinger's jersey to score the first goal, not even reviewed. Yet they reviewed other goals that weren't nearly as controversial. Harvard's third goal as well was questionable - the H guy was nudged into the crease but then made absolutely no effort to leave and made contact with Oettinger's stick. A former NCAA ref I follow on Twitter who had the benefit of replay said it should'v been waived off, though I'll agree that one was a more difficult decision. McAvoy's hit was absolutely not a major, he caught the guy from the side as he was already going down. Two minutes because that's how they call it in college, not a major. Then Hickey is boarded THE EXACT SAME WAY, no call. You mentioned the too many men that wasn't called that a screenshot of has been floating around Twitter. Clear as day six guys are on the ice and not making any attempt to change/get off the ice. They did a horrible job calling the game.

[Harry Cleverly]

Re: BU 2017 Season Thread II: Terriers rising

BU lost because they played like garbage, not because of officiating.

That said, the officials were a disaster. The Harvard guy bats the puck out of Oettinger's jersey to score the first goal, not even reviewed. Yet they reviewed other goals that weren't nearly as controversial. Harvard's third goal as well was questionable - the H guy was nudged into the crease but then made absolutely no effort to leave and made contact with Oettinger's stick. A former NCAA ref I follow on Twitter who had the benefit of replay said it should'v been waived off, though I'll agree that one was a more difficult decision. McAvoy's hit was absolutely not a major, he caught the guy from the side as he was already going down. Two minutes because that's how they call it in college, not a major. Then Hickey is boarded THE EXACT SAME WAY, no call. You mentioned the too many men that wasn't called that a screenshot of has been floating around Twitter. Clear as day six guys are on the ice and not making any attempt to change/get off the ice. They did a horrible job calling the game.

Exactly on both accounts.

The officiating was bad, but BU was even worse. And Harvard had a lot to do with it.

[BU Fan 84]

Re: BU 2017 Season Thread II: Terriers rising

No offense, but when you are outshot by nearly 3x, the refs don't seem like the primary problem.

College refereeing is what it is. There were bad calls both ways and Harvard should also have been called for a Too Many Men penalty in the 3rd period. McAvoy also likely should have gotten a major for his hit on Kerfoot given that that kind of hit can end seasons.

Did you read what I said? Because I started by saying the only thing worse than the refs was how BU played. Doesn't that suggest that the refs weren't the primary problem?

[BU Fan 84]

Re: BU 2017 Season Thread II: Terriers rising

BU lost because they played like garbage, not because of officiating.

That said, the officials were a disaster. The Harvard guy bats the puck out of Oettinger's jersey to score the first goal, not even reviewed. Yet they reviewed other goals that weren't nearly as controversial. Harvard's third goal as well was questionable - the H guy was nudged into the crease but then made absolutely no effort to leave and made contact with Oettinger's stick. A former NCAA ref I follow on Twitter who had the benefit of replay said it should'v been waived off, though I'll agree that one was a more difficult decision. McAvoy's hit was absolutely not a major, he caught the guy from the side as he was already going down. Two minutes because that's how they call it in college, not a major. Then Hickey is boarded THE EXACT SAME WAY, no call. You mentioned the too many men that wasn't called that a screenshot of has been floating around Twitter. Clear as day six guys are on the ice and not making any attempt to change/get off the ice. They did a horrible job calling the game.

I forgot the too many men missed call. I think he was referring to McAvoy's tripping penalty as the one that should've been a major. I disagree with that, he was skating hard one way and the Harvard player was coming at him, and his leg took out the Harvard player's leg. While an ugly play, there was no intent so a minor is more appropriate.

[BU Fan 84]

Re: BU 2017 Season Thread II: Terriers rising

If it isn't effort and it isn't coaching then I guess they just aren't any good...my god they just got outshot 48-17 by Harvard...but I guess they just psyche themselves out...guess there is nothing to be done but just pat them on the back and send them out there...what is this PeeWee hockey and guess what there are quite a few players on this team that suck compared to there supposed level of talent too

... but it IS coaching ....