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Thread: 2017 NCAA tournament selection thread

  1. #441
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    Re: 2017 NCAA tournament selection thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUChamps2001 View Post
    Adrians .741 WIN% is pretty statistically close to everyone but Endicott (.846).

    Adrian has THE HIGHEST SoS at .541 which is statistically higher than your said Eastern screwed teams. ANYONE who has followed the rankings know how much SOS plays a role.

    Augsburg has the same WIN, the HIGHEST RNK, and the lowest SOS, but like Salem St has no where to go in the first round or you would be screwing the higher Western team because Augsburg deserved to be in the first round? Makes no sense there either. The math doesn't work. The Western teams are ahead for a reason.
    Actually Trinity has the higher SOS at .543, and a .650 RNK over 10 games against ranked teams. Your SOS weighting only goes so far, given that Augsburg is .002 from being the first team in 20 years to make the bracket with an SOS under .500.

    The "reason" is not that the 4 Western teams are "better" than all the East teams. The "reason" is to create a bracket designed to seed the 8 East teams as though they were a separate bracket, and do the same with the West teams. This creates a scenario where they hope to have the top two teams from each region go to Utica.
    The "Miracle" was winning the Gold Medal Game against the Finns. I'm biased, I was there.

  2. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    I am aware of the procedures. The selection of the field followed the NCAA metrics exactly. I'm only observing that there were two possible brackets that fit the guidelines that the committee operates with. One of them would have byes for 3 East teams and 1 West team, while the other would have byes for 4 West teams, including two with metrics that are significantly lower than the 3 teams that would have earned byes under the other scenario.

    My comments about the apparent seeding of Norwich not #1 was more tongue-in-cheek than anything else, although I am trying to figure out how the events of Saturday and Sunday would have jumped Trinity past Hobart in the rankings. I think that Hobart should have been seeded above Trinity.

    It is also interesting to note that the women's tournament with 4 east teams and 4 west teams does have a flight with two inter-regional quarterfinal games and the Men's tournament has no inter-regional quarterfinals scheduled.
    WIN
    TRIN .700
    HOBR .786

    RNK
    TRIN .650
    HOBR .375

    SOS
    TRIN .534
    HOBR .528

    COP
    TRIN 1.00
    HOBR 1.00

    H2H
    .500 0-0-1

    Secondary

    WIN
    TRIN .722 (closer)
    HOBR .786

    Last 25
    TRIN 7-0-0
    HOBR 5-1-1

    Kinda easy

  3. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by peddler View Post
    This creates a scenario where they hope to have the top two teams from each region go to Utica.
    Sounds like a great idea. I'd say the committee nailed it then...

  4. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by peddler View Post
    Actually Trinity has the higher SOS at .543, and a .650 RNK over 10 games against ranked teams. Your SOS weighting only goes so far, given that Augsburg is .002 from being the first team in 20 years to make the bracket with an SOS under .500.

    The "reason" is not that the 4 Western teams are "better" than all the East teams. The "reason" is to create a bracket designed to seed the 8 East teams as though they were a separate bracket, and do the same with the West teams. This creates a scenario where they hope to have the top two teams from each region go to Utica.
    Ummm no

    Dated 3/6/17 at 6:13am Adrian is .541
    Dated 3/6/17 at 6:14am Trinity is .534

    I don't care about Augsburg. They are the lucky beneficiary of the Top 3 Western teams being ranked higher and travel concerns. Should we let Salem St slide into Norwich on a bye? No we would have them play a lower seed, Augsburg doesn't have that option.
    Last edited by PSUChamps2001; 03-06-2017 at 07:29 PM.

  5. #445
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    Re: 2017 NCAA tournament selection thread

    Quote Originally Posted by altazo View Post
    Sounds like a great idea. I'd say the committee nailed it then...
    As long as you don't mind playing an extra game vs a western team of similar caliber to get to the FF.
    The "Miracle" was winning the Gold Medal Game against the Finns. I'm biased, I was there.

  6. #446
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    Re: 2017 NCAA tournament selection thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUChamps2001 View Post
    Ummm no

    Dated 3/6/17 at 6:13am Adrian is .541
    Dated 3/6/17 at 6:14am Trinity is .534
    I should give up now, and wait for the Salem State game on Saturday
    The "Miracle" was winning the Gold Medal Game against the Finns. I'm biased, I was there.

  7. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by peddler View Post
    I should give up now, and wait for the Salem State game on Saturday
    Don't forget your kleenex

  8. #448
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    Re: 2017 NCAA tournament selection thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUChamps2001 View Post
    Don't forget your kleenex
    Thanks for the reminder, otherwise I'd forget.
    The "Miracle" was winning the Gold Medal Game against the Finns. I'm biased, I was there.

  9. #449
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    Re: 2017 NCAA tournament selection thread

    I think that a difference of 0.006 in SOS is pretty meaningless, and Hobart's Winning percentage is a pretty big advantage, especially when you consider their SOS metrics are very close. I still don't buy it, especially since the metrics don't really change that much over the last three weeks.

    Of course it is what it is, but I still find it hard to see how Trin-Trin would have jumped over 5 teams in the last week.

    Despite my jokes about Norwich not being seeded number 1 because they aren't playing Trinity, I know the bracket was set up so there would be 1E - 2W and 1W - 2E semifinals if favorites win out.
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  10. #450

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    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    I think that a difference of 0.006 in SOS is pretty meaningless, and Hobart's Winning percentage is a pretty big advantage, especially when you consider their SOS metrics are very close. I still don't buy it, especially since the metrics don't really change that much over the last three weeks.

    Of course it is what it is, but I still find it hard to see how Trin-Trin would have jumped over 5 teams in the last week.

    Despite my jokes about Norwich not being seeded number 1 because they aren't playing Trinity, I know the bracket was set up so there would be 1E - 2W and 1W - 2E semifinals if favorites win out.
    Maybe its the makeup call from 3 years ago when TrinTrin went from #1 to adios.

  11. #451
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    Re: 2017 NCAA tournament selection thread

    Quote Originally Posted by norm1909 View Post
    It is quite apparent that the bracket was seeded so Norwich & Oswego will get to play each other after being denied the opportunity in the Northfield Bank Tournament.
    I was at the Norwich tourney ans Oswego didnt deserve to play in the championship game,but I hear ya

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    Re: 2017 NCAA tournament selection thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    I think that a difference of 0.006 in SOS is pretty meaningless, and Hobart's Winning percentage is a pretty big advantage, especially when you consider their SOS metrics are very close. I still don't buy it, especially since the metrics don't really change that much over the last three weeks.

    Of course it is what it is, but I still find it hard to see how Trin-Trin would have jumped over 5 teams in the last week.

    Despite my jokes about Norwich not being seeded number 1 because they aren't playing Trinity, I know the bracket was set up so there would be 1E - 2W and 1W - 2E semifinals if favorites win out.
    They jumped because they were winning games and the other teams were not. Teams that they played earlier also have moved into the ranking which increased their numbers as well. Really simple.
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  13. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    Doesn't seem to be a priority in other brackets
    Actually it was. Norwich follows a path of playing 8 East and 4 East to get to Utica, just like any tournament format would set up that is seeded. Nowhere in NCAA handbook does it say a 1 seed gets a bye. This year's tournament bracket is one of best ever as far as matching people against the corresponding seed in the early rounds. The committee did a great job.

  14. #454
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    Re: 2017 NCAA tournament selection thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Nubs View Post
    Actually it was. Norwich follows a path of playing 8 East and 4 East to get to Utica, just like any tournament format would set up that is seeded. Nowhere in NCAA handbook does it say a 1 seed gets a bye. This year's tournament bracket is one of best ever as far as matching people against the corresponding seed in the early rounds. The committee did a great job.
    Within regions it is fine, but it's the issue of having the West overrepresented with the byes and the number of spots in Utica.

    Having 4 pods of three teams including an Oswego/Adrian/Hobart pod would have balanced it better. The west would be guaranteed 1 spot in Utica, the east would be guaranteed 2 spots, and one spot would be up for grabs.

    It's not a big deal for Norwich to have to play Salem State - in fact, having a bye when you are playing a team that played the week before can be a disadvantage. I just don't like the optics which favor the so-called West.
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    Re: 2017 NCAA tournament selection thread

    Lots of talk about Norwich getting hosed by not getting a bye. I think they did get a bye, just like the New England Patriots got a bye when the Houston Texans came to Foxborough. Their quarterfinal may pit them against Oswego. That will be a tough game, but what alternative is there?

    Because of mileage restrictions, SNC and Stevens Point are the only western teams that can travel to Adrian. Augsburg can ONLY travel to SNC or Stevens Point in the first two rounds (Adrian is 627 miles from Augsburg). So you can give Augsburg a first round game against Stevens Point and then have SNC waiting for the winner in the quarter; however, that scenario could pit the #1 and #2 teams in the west in a quarter final matchup. Not good to eliminate one of those in the quarters.

    Has anyone provided a sample bracket using the same 12 teams that gives Norwich a bye; and, sticks to the NCAA mileage requirements through the first two rounds without SNC and Stevens Point both not having an opportunity to go to Utica? I'm curious if anyone can come up with such a scenario.

  16. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    Within regions it is fine, but it's the issue of having the West overrepresented with the byes and the number of spots in Utica.

    Having 4 pods of three teams including an Oswego/Adrian/Hobart pod would have balanced it better. The west would be guaranteed 1 spot in Utica, the east would be guaranteed 2 spots, and one spot would be up for grabs.

    It's not a big deal for Norwich to have to play Salem State - in fact, having a bye when you are playing a team that played the week before can be a disadvantage. I just don't like the optics which favor the so-called West.
    How is having the top two seeds in a region meeting in the quarterfinals balanced? It simply isn't. If a scenario existed where Norwich was playing the 2nd Eastern team in the quarterfinals, in this case Trinity, you'd find that the current bracket as it exists is a much more palatable option.

  17. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by PSUChamps2001 View Post
    You're right, we forgot....

    1 SNC
    2. UWSP
    3. Adrian
    4. Augsburg
    5. IT
    6. DOESN'T
    7. MATTER
    8. WHO
    9. IS
    10.NEXT
    11. BECAUSE THE
    12. WEST RULES....
    Eastern Bias now reminds you to take a seat and be quiet. Thank you for your cooperation.

  18. #458
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    Re: 2017 NCAA tournament selection thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Nubs View Post
    How is having the top two seeds in a region meeting in the quarterfinals balanced? It simply isn't. If a scenario existed where Norwich was playing the 2nd Eastern team in the quarterfinals, in this case Trinity, you'd find that the current bracket as it exists is a much more palatable option.
    I was referring to East/West Balance and nothing else.
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  19. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Trev View Post
    Eastern Bias now reminds you to take a seat and be quiet. Thank you for your cooperation.
    Sarcasm...learn it...

  20. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    I was referring to East/West Balance and nothing else.
    You should go over to the other site and read the bracketology explained. You'll like that even less than anything I've had to say...

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