Page 9 of 40 FirstFirst 12345678910111213141516171819 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 787

Thread: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

  1. #161
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Colo Spgs
    Posts
    3,016

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by unofan View Post
    That's because you don't speak derp. Let me translate for you. He's saying Muslims engage in human sacrifices and want to do so here. So the judges are legislating from the bench by striking down the travel ban.
    Most impressive. I never would have made it there...

  2. #162
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    between Scylla and Charybdis
    Posts
    8,592

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    Islam sacrifices human lives all the time, don'tcha know?
    Not all of Islam, merely one fringe, demented extreme version:

    -- 2,996 people in lower Manhattan, 9/11/01
    -- 164 in Mumbai, 11/26-11/29/08
    -- 12 people in Paris, 1/7/10
    -- 130 people in Paris, 11/13/15
    -- 14 people in San Bernardino, 12/9/15
    -- 49 people in Orlando, 6/12/16
    -- 85 people in Nice, 7/14/16.


    Sorry, I guess there must be something wrong with me. I don't find any of this particularly amusing.

    Perhaps unofun can explain the humor to me?
    Last edited by FreshFish; 03-17-2017 at 05:38 PM.
    "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

    "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

    "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

    "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

  3. #163
    Just a boring user.
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Walking to Yost
    Posts
    8,997
    Quote Originally Posted by unofan View Post
    That's because you don't speak derp. Let me translate for you. He's saying Muslims engage in human sacrifices and want to do so here. So the judges are legislating from the bench by striking down the travel ban.
    Many states allow human sacrifice right now. It's called the death penalty.

    It's just that the first amendment took blasphemy off the list of capitol offenses.

  4. #164
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Crystal, MN
    Posts
    34,343

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by FreshFish View Post
    Not all of Islam, merely one fringe, demented extreme version:

    -- 2,996 people in lower Manhattan, 9/11/01
    -- 164 in Mumbai, 11/26-11/29/08
    -- 12 people in Paris, 1/7/10
    -- 130 people in Paris, 11/13/15
    -- 14 people in San Bernardino, 12/9/15
    -- 49 people in Orlando, 6/12/16
    -- 85 people in Nice, 7/14/16.


    Sorry, I guess there must be something wrong with me. I don't find any of this particularly amusing.

    Perhaps unofun can explain the humor to me?
    Should we run a list of all the people Christians kill per year? Oh wait I bet they arent "Real Christians" right BotBoy?
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
    -INCH

    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

  5. #165
    Just a boring user.
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Walking to Yost
    Posts
    8,997

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by FreshFish View Post
    Not all of Islam, merely one fringe, demented extreme version:

    -- 2,996 people in lower Manhattan, 9/11/01
    -- 164 in Mumbai, 11/26-11/29/08
    -- 12 people in Paris, 1/7/10
    -- 130 people in Paris, 11/13/15
    -- 14 people in San Bernardino, 12/9/15
    -- 49 people in Orlando, 6/12/16
    -- 85 people in Nice, 7/14/16.


    Sorry, I guess there must be something wrong with me. I don't find any of this particularly amusing.

    Perhaps unofun can explain the humor to me?
    It would be interesting to compare that number to the number of people the US military has killed since 2001. Or does that not count?

    I'm sure we've killed quite a few innocent people along with the fighters.

    Given the nature of why people become terrorists- that matters A LOT.
    Last edited by alfablue; 03-18-2017 at 10:14 AM.

  6. #166
    wubba lubba dub dub
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    North Haverbrook
    Posts
    29,660

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by alfablue View Post
    Many states allow human sacrifice right now. It's called the death penalty.

    It's just that the first amendment took blasphemy off the list of capitol offenses.
    No, human sacrifice wasn't some form of punishment, some ancient religions would sacrifice innocent people as a sign of devotion to their god(s). While yes, Leviticus will tell you that people were to be killed in God's name for a host of silly transgressions, those were punishments and not sacrifices.
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    Women and I have an understanding. They tend to stay away from me, and I tend to understand that I'm repulsive to them. It's not my favorite understanding.

  7. #167
    Just a boring user.
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Walking to Yost
    Posts
    8,997

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    No, human sacrifice wasn't some form of punishment, some ancient religions would sacrifice innocent people as a sign of devotion to their god(s). While yes, Leviticus will tell you that people were to be killed in God's name for a host of silly transgressions, those were punishments and not sacrifices.
    Relative to religious sacrifice, sure, that's a good point.

    But the context that is being used as an example is a religion punishing people they think have done something bad- aka- chopping the head off someone who has made Islam look bad. Given that- it's no difference than where a state kills someone for doing something we all think is bad. Terrorist chopping people's heads off isn't a sacrifice to a god to help the harvest. It's them punishing someone, as a single person or a group of people.

    (I'm not for it, I just listen to their justifications, and you can easily see times where states to the same kind of thing)

    It's funny how we take a moral high ground on so many things.

  8. #168
    wubba lubba dub dub
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    North Haverbrook
    Posts
    29,660

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by alfablue View Post
    Relative to religious sacrifice, sure, that's a good point.

    But the context that is being used as an example is a religion punishing people they think have done something bad- aka- chopping the head off someone who has made Islam look bad. Given that- it's no difference than where a state kills someone for doing something we all think is bad. Terrorist chopping people's heads off isn't a sacrifice to a god to help the harvest. It's them punishing someone, as a single person or a group of people.

    (I'm not for it, I just listen to their justifications, and you can easily see times where states to the same kind of thing)

    It's funny how we take a moral high ground on so many things.
    The problem is that he's set a misguided - even evil - direction to the conversation. Fresh Fish wrongly equates human sacrifice in worship of one's religion, a sacrifice that was meant to ward off future evils, provide for a good harvest, and all the various bounties the earth bestows upon us with religious punishment that purges existing evil from the world as his/her god sees it.

    The SCOTUS case addressed human sacrifice, not murder. The court says that intentionally killing someone, regardless of the reason, can always be tried as murder because the First Amendment will offer the accused absolutely no protection.
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    Women and I have an understanding. They tend to stay away from me, and I tend to understand that I'm repulsive to them. It's not my favorite understanding.

  9. #169
    Just a boring user.
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Walking to Yost
    Posts
    8,997

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    The problem is that he's set a misguided - even evil - direction to the conversation. Fresh Fish wrongly equates human sacrifice in worship of one's religion, a sacrifice that was meant to ward off future evils, provide for a good harvest, and all the various bounties the earth bestows upon us with religious punishment that purges existing evil from the world as his/her god sees it.

    The SCOTUS case addressed human sacrifice, not murder. The court says that intentionally killing someone, regardless of the reason, can always be tried as murder because the First Amendment will offer the accused absolutely no protection.
    Which is why I brought it up like I do.

    If anyone can claim that chopping people's heads off is some kind of religious sacrifice, then the connection to what they are ACTUALLY doing is exactly the same as the death penalty. Which makes the original claim rather absurd. Or hypocritical- depending on how the reaction is seen.

    I agree that terrorists are evil, but if people can't see that many of OUR actions can easily be seen as equally evil- well....

    The only way one can actually win a terrorist war is to prevent people from seeing terrorism as a good path.

    You can never kill all of the people who are willing to kill you, as it's easy to make up new reasons to hate you. So the key is to stop people from hating you.

    That's the really hilarious thing about the travel ban. The amount of people that it will prevent is the the same that people will sneak in. So once there's an attack on US soil, it's super easy to claim that X is super harmful and we need to close the borders- it's just an excuse to justify biases. That's how history has always played out in an us vs them world. Evil people will do whatever they can to make them seem to not be, just so that they can be. And fear is the best way to do that.

  10. #170
    wubba lubba dub dub
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    North Haverbrook
    Posts
    29,660

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Islam in the third largest religion in the world, IIRC, with just over 1.6 billion people. You have only a few people committed to these terrorist organizations. ISIL is known, documented by people who've escaped their "draft" or enslavement, that many of their fighters were forced into serving them, often doped up on narcotics, and when given the chance they abandon ISIL like a fundamentalist Christian fleeing a natural history museum.

    So now we have a few hundred acts of terrorism, put in place by up to a couple hundred people per operation - usually far fewer than that. The percentages of the overall Muslim population that can be credibly tied to terrorism are tiny, far less than 1%, and yet here we have our government trying to make a blanket ban on immigrants and refugees from countries with majority Muslim populations. Way to prey on fear, boys.
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    Women and I have an understanding. They tend to stay away from me, and I tend to understand that I'm repulsive to them. It's not my favorite understanding.

  11. #171
    Lucia Apologist
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    22,535

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Shut up you hippie!

  12. #172
    there's a good buck in that racket.
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    37,237

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by alfablue View Post

    I agree that terrorists are evil, but if people can't see that many of OUR actions can easily be seen as equally evil- well....
    a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

  13. #173
    Just a boring user.
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Walking to Yost
    Posts
    8,997

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by mookie1995 View Post
    While you don't have to agree what so ever with the opposition, it can help understand how they think.

    We don't see our actions as evil, but I can see how others can think that way.

    Just like how they can justify cutting the heads off of people.

    Or is it shocking to you that people actually think differently from each other?

  14. #174

    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Secret Lair
    Posts
    55,347

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    when given the chance they abandon ISIL like a fundamentalist Christian fleeing a natural history museum


    The Muslim ban is a cynical appeal to fear to win votes. My position is close to Maher's. The evergreen problem is violent fanaticism. Religious fanaticism has ranked among the most destructive rallying cries in human history. Although Islam is no more inherently violent than Christianity, it is foolish to deny that right now the worst violent ideological troublemaker in the world is violent Islamic fanaticism. They are going through a cuckoo fundamentalist shake out century, and we ought not to pretend that they are quiescent. In comparison, violent Christian fanaticism is currently relatively dormant. It could of course break out as an epidemic or even a pandemic if conditions are right. We need to keep an eye on that. But right now it is false equivalency to stress the potentiality of violence is equal while ignoring actual events. The earnest point is the booms are coming from inside the ummah.

    But. By far the most numerous victims of violent Muslim fanaticism are Muslims, and we should be welcoming them as refugees the way we have been a beacon to the world throughout our history. We should remember that all the pseudo-sociological bigotry now being applied to Muslims as a whole by reactionaries has been trotted out to smear every immigrant group in our history: Germans, Irish, Italians, Asians, Jews, Central Europeans, West Indians, now Muslims. We can acknowledge that large groups of refugees fleeing trouble can be easily broadbrushed as the source of danger by Fortress America ideologues, when in reality they are innocent victims running in fear. To us. We have a general moral duty to help them as humans, and we have a particular historical duty to help them as Americans. That is the real American exceptionalism.

    But, again. If a Muslim commits a terrorist action because of violent Muslim fanatical motivations we should call it violent Muslim extremism, just as if a Christian commits a terrorist action because of ideological motivations we should call it violent Christian extremism. The key word is violent, but adding the religion is not in itself smearing all believers, it's stating a useful fact -- contextualizing the act. It adds useful information. After all, many of the pet causes of violent Muslim extremism are shared by violent Christian extremism. If somebody shoots up Planned Parenthood or breaks the windows in a synagogue, it could just as easily be either. It is valid to identify which nutbar ideology is involved in the particular event.

    We should not refrain from speaking truth simply because idiots will misapply those facts. That allows the idiots to control the dialog, and when we do that we wind up with disasters like the current ruling junta.
    Last edited by Kepler; 03-20-2017 at 08:44 AM.
    2016 USCHO POSER OF THE YEAR

    "The strength and power of despotism consists wholly in the fear of resistance." -- Thomas Paine

    Cornell University
    NCAA Champion 1967, 1970
    ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
    Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014

  15. #175
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Crystal, MN
    Posts
    34,343

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Then by that account shouldnt we also say "Violent Atheist Extremism"? Plenty of Non=God d-bags do this stuff too.

    I think we label things too much and it causes too many problems. We already call every violent act by a Muslim "terrorism" that is good enough.
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
    -INCH

    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

  16. #176

    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Secret Lair
    Posts
    55,347

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    Then by that account shouldnt we also say "Violent Atheist Extremism"? Plenty of Non=God d-bags do this stuff too.
    If they do it in the name of atheist violent extremism, then yes, but I can't think of a currently operating atheist terrorist ideology. That's not to say it's logically impossible, but atheism tends towards the high tail of the intellectual spectrum, and violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
    2016 USCHO POSER OF THE YEAR

    "The strength and power of despotism consists wholly in the fear of resistance." -- Thomas Paine

    Cornell University
    NCAA Champion 1967, 1970
    ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
    Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014

  17. #177
    I'm the Problem ScoobyDoo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    The 9th Circle
    Posts
    64,571

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    Then by that account shouldnt we also say "Violent Atheist Extremism"? Plenty of Non=God d-bags do this stuff too.

    I think we label things too much and it causes too many problems. We already call every violent act by a Muslim "terrorism" that is good enough.
    Terrorism used to be just against the Law. Now it's war. It's the worst case scenario. Hard to believe that the human race can devolve but I think they have in this case.
    Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

    Glass at 0%: Another First Round Exit.

  18. #178

    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Secret Lair
    Posts
    55,347

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    Terrorism used to be just against the Law. Now it's war.
    If you think this is a new development you need to get to the history section of the library more often.

    Terrorism on the level of warfare is the norm in human history. It is only rarely that large scale violence has a territorial or dynastic motivation. The running caption of humanity is "I believe x is so important that if you don't I get to kill you." Solve for x: religion, capitalism, ethnic nationalism -- the cause is the manifestation of the ape drive to intimidate.
    2016 USCHO POSER OF THE YEAR

    "The strength and power of despotism consists wholly in the fear of resistance." -- Thomas Paine

    Cornell University
    NCAA Champion 1967, 1970
    ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
    Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014

  19. #179
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Back down in Uptown
    Posts
    11,764

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    The Muslim ban is a cynical appeal to fear to win votes. My position is close to Maher's. The evergreen problem is violent fanaticism. Religious fanaticism has ranked among the most destructive rallying cries in human history. Although Islam is no more inherently violent than Christianity, it is foolish to deny that right now the worst violent ideological troublemaker in the world is violent Islamic fanaticism. They are going through a cuckoo fundamentalist shake out century, and we ought not to pretend that they are quiescent. In comparison, violent Christian fanaticism is currently relatively dormant. It could of course break out as an epidemic or even a pandemic if conditions are right. We need to keep an eye on that. But right now it is false equivalency to stress the potentiality of violence is equal while ignoring actual events. The earnest point is the booms are coming from inside the ummah.
    Unfortunately, you're misunderstanding the problem again.

    This is not a religious issue. Do not blame Islam or Christianity for terror. This is a fanaticism issue. These people hate the US and the west in general - and its not because they believe in a God. If you don't understand the problem you cannot find a solution.
    Go Gophers!

  20. #180
    Just a boring user.
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Walking to Yost
    Posts
    8,997

    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by 5mn_Major View Post
    Unfortunately, you're misunderstanding the problem again.

    This is not a religious issue. Do not blame Islam or Christianity for terror. This is a fanaticism issue. These people hate the US and the west in general - and its not because they believe in a God. If you don't understand the problem you cannot find a solution.
    How is banning travel to the US, even temporarily, a solution?

    If it was really about people who have attacked or threatened the US- it would HAVE to be a very different set of countries.

    This is not a solution to that, what so ever.

    For that matter, people who maybe on the fence, as they still thought the US was a still a beacon of hope may go over to the side that hates us.

    In essence, you protect our country from essentially nothing, but give more hope to our enemy.

    Otherwise, not using logic, it's just a play on fear.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •