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Thread: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    As long as one party is willing to burn the ****ing house down there's not a single thing anyone can do. Especially when people keep voting for that party over and over and over again.
    What does that say about the other party?

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    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    What does that say about the other party?
    No idea. I do know what it says about humanity though.
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    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    If you put personal feelings aside and look at it strictly based on the legality, he was on the right side. I understand why the court ruled how they did though.
    Have you read that whole opinion? What do you mean by "strictly based on the legality?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    If you put personal feelings aside and look at it strictly based on the legality, he was on the right side. I understand why the court ruled how they did though.
    Of course you think he was. Now, as burd asked, care to explain what you mean by "strictly based on the legality"?
    Last edited by unofan; 02-01-2017 at 01:36 PM.

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    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    What does that say about the other party?
    That nobody ever went broke underestimating the American public?

    But you and Gorsuch are right. We need to convince people, not ramrod them, and we're paying the price now of not being capable of countering the GOP's mountain of bullsh-t.

    Make no mistake, this is our fault. The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing, and we have done nothing to break the stranglehold the GOP media misinformation machine has over the middle half of the nation.
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    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
    Have you read that whole opinion? What do you mean by "strictly based on the legality?"
    He likes the outcome. That's the only "merit" the GOP cares about. Drew has already said on another topic "the end justifies the means." That's all you need to know about the current mentality of the right. "F-ck everything else; I'm gonna get my way!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
    Have you read that whole opinion? What do you mean by "strictly based on the legality?"
    I have not, it's over 100 pages and abortion isn't something I have a ton of interest in.

    The Texas legislature has the right to make laws, including those that fall under quality of medical care, which this does. Does this law fall create a conflict with restricting abortion? You could make that argument based on some clinics closing, but it is flimsy at best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    He likes the outcome. That's the only "merit" the GOP cares about. Drew has already said on another topic "the end justifies the means." That's all you need to know about the current mentality of the right. "F-ck everything else; I'm gonna get my way!"
    Except I'm pro-choice and don't have strong feelings either way.

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    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    The Texas legislature has the right to make laws, including those that fall under quality of medical care, which this does.
    Nope. This was transparently a law designed to obstruct women from exercising a right guaranteed under the Constitution. The Texas legislature has no right to do so.

    Try to expand your horizons a little beyond RedState and Townhall. You might learn something.
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    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    I have not, it's over 100 pages and abortion isn't something I have a ton of interest in.

    The Texas legislature has the right to make laws, including those that fall under quality of medical care, which this does. Does this law fall create a conflict with restricting abortion? You could make that argument based on some clinics closing, but it is flimsy at best.
    If you have no time to read I have no time to explain it to me. Suffice to say the poor were trampled on in that ruling in a big way.
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    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    Except I'm pro-choice and don't have strong feelings either way.
    Then it's a bit ironic that you are parroting a rightwing narrative so flimsy even NRO has admitted it's bogus.

    But if you are pro-choice, you should have learned this:

    I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” -- MLK, Letters from a Birmingham Jail
    tl; dr: If you believe in a right then fight the people who are obstructing it. It's really that simple.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    I have not, it's over 100 pages and abortion isn't something I have a ton of interest in.

    The Texas legislature has the right to make laws, including those that fall under quality of medical care, which this does. Does this law fall create a conflict with restricting abortion? You could make that argument based on some clinics closing, but it is flimsy at best.
    Do you understand the concept of a pretext? As in the legislature puts forth a fake reason to try to get their real agenda through the courts? Because that was as blatant an attempt as there ever was.

    Texas said it was for women's health, then (among other bullshiat answers) told people on the New Mexico border they could go across the state line to get an abortion over there, even though New Mexico did not have the new standards and it would have been 'unsafe' under Texas' own guidance.
    Last edited by unofan; 02-01-2017 at 01:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    If you have no time to read I have no time to explain it to me. Suffice to say the poor were trampled on in that ruling in a big way.
    Well, not really since Kennedy sided with the liberals and struck down an abortion restriction for the first time ever. But it was closer than it should've been, because only morons couldn't have read between the lines on that one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Nope. This was transparently a law designed to obstruct women from exercising a right guaranteed under the Constitution. The Texas legislature has no right to do so.

    Try to expand your horizons a little beyond RedState and Townhall. You might learn something.
    I don't read either of those.

    I would ask you this then. Do state legislatures have the right to pass gun control legislation? A lot of the laws proposed and passed have nothing to do with public safety. There are hardly any people killed with 'assault rifles.' Wouldn't a bad on those run afoul of the constitution using your logic?

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    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    It's been a conservative court for near 50 years.
    Courts are generally supposed to be conservative, in the lowercase "c" sense, no? We want existing laws to be upheld consistently across all forums and venues. That is what "the rule of law" is all about. If judges are willy-nilly going to replace logical reasoning with impulsive emoting, that would be a step backward, no?
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    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    I don't read either of those.

    I would ask you this then. Do state legislatures have the right to pass gun control legislation? A lot of the laws proposed and passed have nothing to do with public safety. There are hardly any people killed with 'assault rifles.' Wouldn't a bad on those run afoul of the constitution using your logic?
    No, because you can still own guns.

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    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    I don't read either of those.
    Good. I go to them every few months to see if they've gotten any smarter, or at least more honest.

    They haven't.

    I would ask you this then. Do state legislatures have the right to pass gun control legislation? A lot of the laws proposed and passed have nothing to do with public safety. There are hardly any people killed with 'assault rifles.' Wouldn't a bad on those run afoul of the constitution using your logic?
    I think that is a solid comparison, and I will amend my statement that suggests choice is any more an absolute right than say gun ownership.

    The two instances do differ, however. On abortion, the rulings in Roe and Casey affirm the right specifically. On personal gun ownership, this had not been the case until the Court created a right out of nothing in Heller. Prior to that, in the history of the Court there were only broad rulings tied to the Militia clause which the NRA agenda ignores. The Casey decision tree is long and rooted in the general underlying privacy without which no other right exists. The Heller decision tree doesn't exist. It sprung fully formed from the head of Scalia-Zeus.
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    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    if RvW is sent back to the states, how much actually changes? There is a majority of support for abortion, but a majority of support for restrictions. That's the likely outcome.
    it's been said that they got the right "answer" but failed abysmally in (a) the actual "reasoning" (even supporters of R v W think that the opinion was not well-thought out nor well-written), and (b) they short-circuited the political process that would have put an end to the debates once and for all.

    SCOTUS did not really "legalize" gay marriage, they merely noted that most states had already done so and decided to make it uniform across the US. The political process drove the acceptance of gay marriage, and SCOTUS was merely playing catch-up.

    For abortion, the political process would eventually have resulted in a consensus that early-term terminations were fine, late-term terminations were not, and mid-term terminations were complicated that involved case-by-case decisions. But we would not be arguing about it any more because it would have been decided by the People through their legislatures. By depriving everyone of a chance to debate and vote, SCOTUS did not "solve" the issue at all; while if they had merely said "abortion wasn't something the Founders contemplated, there is no clear guidance one way or the other, so legislatures better get with it to admit the obvious" we'd be spared four decades of wailing and gnashing of teeth.
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    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    Quote Originally Posted by FreshFish View Post
    For abortion, the political process would eventually have resulted in a consensus that early-term terminations were fine, late-term terminations were not, and mid-term terminations were complicated that involved case-by-case decisions. But we would not be arguing about it any more because it would have been decided by the People through their legislatures. By depriving everyone of a chance to debate and vote, SCOTUS did not "solve" the issue at all; while if they had merely said "abortion wasn't something the Founders contemplated, there is no clear guidance one way or the other, so legislatures better get with it to admit the obvious" we'd be spared four decades of wailing and gnashing of teeth.
    There some truth to this (which I find surprising). Roe was badly reasoned -- the right should never have been privacy between doctor and patient, but 14th amendment equal protection for the woman. Liberal scholars have agreed on this practically since the ink was still wet on the decision.

    Certainly though we need to acknowledge that there are cases in which what's right is right, whatever the majority thinks. Brown was handed down despite deep and bitter social resistance, and in fact we can see that the racism behind that resistance lives on even 60 years later.

    Was Roe that kind of decision? I would think the guarantee of a fundamental right to more than half of the citizens of the country is. Certainly Roe was a political godsend for the right, particularly the far right which was able to infect mainstream Republican politics using "pro-life" as their injection mechanism. So for all practical and pragmatic political purposes Roe was a disaster for the country generally and for the Republican party specifically.

    But the protection of the rights of our citizens is more important than politics.
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    Re: Power of the SCOTUS IX: The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the SCOTUS nine that day

    If Minnesota implemented a billion percent tax on guns, would you have a problem with that? What if the Feds put a million dollar application fee for every gun?

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