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  • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

    Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
    why? isn't this the best outcome for him? doesn't have his name attached to 'crap'. and has scapegoats for why 'crap' continues to be law. plus he gets to go golf.
    Something I've been saying for weeks. He's going to either take full credit if it passes (and to his credit he did win over a bunch of votes) or leave Paul Ryan holding the bag if it fails.
    Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

    Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

    "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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    • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

      Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
      why? isn't this the best outcome for him? doesn't have his name attached to 'crap'. and has scapegoats for why 'crap' continues to be law. plus he gets to go golf.
      Well yeah. And then he can just get to work quietly repealing all the revenue-generating aspects of Obamacare, so it collapses on its own, and once more gets to go before the media and crow. "See, i was prescient again. i knew Obamacare was gonna fail, gave those guys a chance to replace it before it did, and they failed. Losers"

      His supporters would eat it up like free oxy at the hillbilly games.
      What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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      • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

        Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
        if anything he now has reason to disband congress with justification for that 27% to support him
        King James I, Works, (1609):

        The state of monarchy is the supremest thing upon earth; for kings are not only God's lieutenants upon earth, and sit upon God's throne, but even by God himself are called gods. There be three principal similitudes that illustrate the state of monarchy: one taken out of the word of God; and the two other out of the grounds of policy and philosophy. In the Scriptures kings are called gods, and so their power after a certain relation compared to the divine power. Kings are also compared to fathers of families: for a king is truly Parens patriae, the politique father of his people. And lastly, kings are compared to the head of this microcosm of the body of man.

        Kings are justly called gods, for that they exercise a manner or resemblance of divine power upon earth: for if you will consider the attributes to God, you shall see how they agree in the person of a king. God hath power to create or destrov make or unmake at his pleasure, to give life or send death, to judge all and to be judged nor accountable to none; to raise low things and to make high things low at his pleasure, and to God are both souls and body due. And the like power have kings: they make and unmake their subjects, thev have power of raising and casting down, of life and of death, judges over all their subjects and in all causes and yet accountable to none but God only. . . .

        I conclude then this point touching the power of kings with this axiom of divinity, That as to dispute what God may do is blasphemy....so is it sedition in subjects to dispute what a king may do in the height of his power. But just kings will ever be willing to declare what they will do, if they will not incur the curse of God. I will not be content that my power be disputed upon; but I shall ever be willing to make the reason appear of all my doings, and rule my actions according to my laws. . . I would wish you to be careful to avoid three things in the matter of grievances:

        First, that you do not meddle with the main points of government; that is my craft . . . to meddle with that were to lesson me . . . I must not be taught my office.

        Secondly, I would not have you meddle with such ancient rights of mine as I have received from my predecessors . . . . All novelties are dangerous as well in a politic as in a natural body. and therefore I would be loath to be quarreled in my ancient rights and possessions, for that were to judge me unworthy of that which my predecessors had and left me.

        And lastly, I pray you beware to exhibit for grievance anything that is established by a settled law, and whereunto . . . you know I will never give a plausible answer; for it is an undutiful part in subjects to press their king, wherein they know beforehand he will refuse them.
        Cornell University
        National Champion 1967, 1970
        ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
        Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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        • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
          Do you think it will pass?
          I don't know. Regardless of whether it does, the rep's doing his job, and doing it well. How can I possibly argue with that?

          Comment


          • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

            Originally posted by Rover View Post
            Something I've been saying for weeks. He's going to either take full credit if it passes (and to his credit he did win over a bunch of votes) or leave Paul Ryan holding the bag if it fails.
            tD is not a repub party member. he doesn't care. he is a donald party member. win / win

            you can't see people jumping in the 2018 races under the donald party!?!?!
            heck, bernie was able to run as a dem. and tD to some success as a repub.

            shake more stuff up! american voters love that.

            plus tD will be too busy tellin everyone how london allows visitors from the middle east and see what happens!!!
            a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

            Comment


            • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

              Originally posted by Wisko McBadgerton View Post
              It's still interesting political theater. How well did the FC'ers sleep last night? Are they worried about getting primaried at all if they vote no?
              I'd guess it's not a particularly hard political maneuver to spin that into a vote for Obamacare in their districts which mostly went heavily for Trump. Seems like there's a lot of pressure on those guys either way.
              The entertainment factor of this is off the charts! The coalition of the moderates and FCs is cracking because the Trumpers are setting charges on the fault line like Lex Luthor in Superman the Movie.
              "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
              -aparch

              "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
              -INCH

              Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
              -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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              • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                Originally posted by alfablue View Post

                One thing to take from this- if they can't get something like this, something every Republican has been flying the flag over for 7 years, to be "fixed" it seems unlikely they can get anything done. Which means all of the gloom and doom positions some want to take may not go anywhere. We could get 2 years of gridlock, all due to R's not agreeing with each other. Maybe not likely, but certainly possible.
                They can still get tax reform done because Trump and the FC and the Moderates all agree on it. (and the rubes dont care about it cause it doesnt effect them)

                Plus Trump can just make up laws...he has been doing it since day 1.

                My guess is once this dies we start hearing about Hillary again to deflect...
                "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                -aparch

                "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                -INCH

                Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                Comment


                • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                  Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                  My guess is once this dies we start hearing about Hillary again to deflect...
                  GOP Members have found who's to blame.
                  Cornell University
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                  Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                  • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                    Republicans sum up today's vote using the imagery and language of a not particularly bright 15-year old boy.
                    Cornell University
                    National Champion 1967, 1970
                    ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                    Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                    • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                      Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                      They can still get tax reform done because Trump and the FC and the Moderates all agree on it. (and the rubes dont care about it cause it doesnt effect them)

                      Plus Trump can just make up laws...he has been doing it since day 1.

                      My guess is once this dies we start hearing about Hillary again to deflect...
                      I'm not so sure about that.

                      If they can't agree on something they have ALL been campaigning on for 7 years, how can they agree on a reasonable tax plan? Given the moderates, I don't think all of them just want to give a tax break to the rich. And given the conservatives, they may want to actually cut the deficit (I doubt it, but one can dream). Again, second to Obamacare, the deficit and debt has been a HUGE item (to the point of not increasing the debt limit).

                      What deductions can they all agree on? Some want to keep their, some want a clean sheet.

                      I don't at all see them all agreeing.

                      As for making up laws- to a degree- he's been blocked on things that many claim to be purely in the President's court. And he's run out of other things to do, without working with congress. Remember, the wall isn't going anywhere without congress.

                      Comment


                      • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                        Like a baby. They sleep the untroubled sleep of the just, or anyway of the pinwheel-eyed fanatic.

                        We are so used to Politicians being cynics and liars that it comes as a shock when a few of them (apparently, about 30) are sincere. The virtue those lack is empathy, not honesty.
                        fyp

                        Maybe, but in my experience there are still very few hills in which pols are really willing to risk dying on when it comes down to it. Given that we all know the Senate is going to rewrite this thing, (to the extent they can, given limits on reconciliation) is this the hill all the FC'ers are going to choose?

                        Normally I'd say a big No. But who knows here? Which is why it's so fascinating.

                        I agree with mookie that win or lose, Trump isn't in trouble here. He's said a hundred times that you have to be willing to walk away. He just put the screws to the r's in congress by doing just that. I'm not even saying he was smart to do so, just that it is consistent for him. Heck, he went bowling with them. What do they want for chrissakes! Simple to spin it on all of them if it goes south, as he doesn't care, he's not an r, he's a Trump.
                        Originally posted by WiscTJK
                        I'm with Wisko and Tim.
                        Originally posted by Timothy A
                        Other than Wisko McBadgerton and Badger Bob, who is universally loved by all?

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                        • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                          Also, their health plan, in its original form, saves some 300 billion over ten years, money that they were then gonna use to justify huge tax cuts for the rich. Without those savings, or the lesser savings that the amended bill offers, that gives them less money to play around with to use for tax cuts.
                          What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

                          Comment


                          • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                            Originally posted by Wisko McBadgerton View Post
                            fyp

                            Maybe, but in my experience there are still very few hills in which pols are really willing to risk dying on when it comes down to it. Given that we all know the Senate is going to rewrite this thing, (to the extent they can, given limits on reconciliation) is this the hill all the FC'ers are going to choose?

                            Normally I'd say a big No. But who knows here? Which is why it's so fascinating.

                            I agree with mookie that win or lose, Trump isn't in trouble here. He's said a hundred times that you have to be willing to walk away. He just put the screws to the r's in congress by doing just that. I'm not even saying he was smart to do so, just that it is consistent for him. Heck, he went bowling with them. What do they want for chrissakes! Simple to spin it on all of them if it goes south, as he doesn't care, he's not an r, he's a Trump.
                            Lotta truth here.
                            Cornell University
                            National Champion 1967, 1970
                            ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                            Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                            • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                              Originally posted by rufus View Post
                              Also, their health plan, in its original form, saves some 300 billion over ten years, money that they were then gonna use to justify huge tax cuts for the rich. Without those savings, or the lesser savings that the amended bill offers, that gives them less money to play around with to use for tax cuts.
                              (gasping for breath)

                              Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were serious.

                              Nothing will stop the GOP from cutting taxes on the wealthy. Nothing.
                              Cornell University
                              National Champion 1967, 1970
                              ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                              Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                              • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                                Originally posted by rufus View Post
                                Well yeah. And then he can just get to work quietly repealing all the revenue-generating aspects of Obamacare, so it collapses on its own, and once more gets to go before the media and crow. "See, i was prescient again. i knew Obamacare was gonna fail, gave those guys a chance to replace it before it did, and they failed. Losers"

                                His supporters would eat it up like free oxy at the hillbilly games.
                                The part about this that doesn't work is people losing their healthcare. If people lose their healthcare, they are going to hold responsible those currently in power who have the ability to make that not happen. They may fully agree to blame somebody else who's no longer in office, but they're going to look for the people in office to fix it. In multiple interviews people who voted Trump and benefited from the ACA have said they didn't think he'd follow through on his rhetoric about health care once elected. They might end up being right.
                                Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                                Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                                "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                                Comment

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