The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

[mookie1995]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

Oh yes, of course it will be done overnight

[mookie1995]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

Mookie can't wait to visit chiner and partake

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

Too perfect. Just needs a "MAI WAIFU" caption:

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

How does it change the employee expenditures for the companies? Instead of Widget Co paying (just tossing out a number here, $15,000) to Big Bill Insurance for its employer-sponsored plan, that payment is now made to the government through employee Bob's tax collections. If Bob isn't receiving the money that had previously gone to Big Bill Insurance Co., then Bob is now getting a raw deal as his taxes are going up without an offset to cover that additional cost. So he's essentially getting a reduced compensation package from Widget Co. Bob and his coworkers won't stand for that, so Widget Co will now pay Bob that erstwhile $15K Big Bill Ins Co premium as taxable income.

My guess is Bob and his co workers will stand for that or they'll be out of a job. Never heard of companies willingly giving back the money to employees when the govt lowers their expenses. 99.999 times it goes to the shareholders or exec management.

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

My guess is Bob and his co workers will stand for that or they'll be out of a job. Never heard of companies willingly giving back the money to employees when the govt lowers their expenses. 99.999 times it goes to the shareholders or exec management.

Thousands of dollars lost per employee will not stand. You'll have a mass exodus from any company that refused the employees a raise in their taxable pay as the premiums paid are already compensation to employees in lieu of cash. If people here have surmised correctly, and a single-payer system is cheaper, then the company could drop their next expenses by, say, 10% of the premiums, keep their employees' standards of living the same, and still save cash.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

I'm sort of in the middle with this. It's a competitive market out there. Places like 3M are giving paternal leave and extended maternal leave without being required to. Top employers have to offer this kind of benefit to stay competitive. I would assume these kinds of companies would do something similar if health insurance were removed from employment.

On the other hand, if all of industry decided to not do it, or even a plurality of companies, most would drop it. Most companies drive towards the mean for a lot of benefits.

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

Sorry, but its fantasyland thinking that the savings corporations get from not providing health insurance is going to back to the employees. Unless you mandate that as part of the law, you've been living in a different country than I have over the last 40 years. Bob and crew will be worse off and they'll get nothing and like it as judge Smails would say.

Agreed on either everybody does it, or nobody does it. My guess is nobody does it. There may be an occasional outlier. For example my employer gives 16 weeks off with full pay for maternity and paternity leave. That's far outside the norm, but its not costing them anything. This would be a huge boost to corporate profits. Boosts in corporate profits go to shareholders and executive management first and foremost, and to Bob last.

[mookie1995]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

My guess is Bob and his co workers will stand for that or they'll be out of a job. Never heard of companies willingly giving back the money to employees when the govt lowers their expenses. 99.999 times it goes to the shareholders or exec management.

agree. people will only see (depending on funding of course) their premiums that come out of their paycheck no longer doing so.

[Kepler]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

Sorry, but its fantasyland thinking that the savings corporations get from not providing health insurance is going to back to the employees. Unless you mandate that as part of the law, you've been living in a different country than I have over the last 40 years. Bob and crew will be worse off and they'll get nothing and like it as judge Smails would say.

Agreed on either everybody does it, or nobody does it. My guess is nobody does it. There may be an occasional outlier. For example my employer gives 16 weeks off with full pay for maternity and paternity leave. That's far outside the norm, but its not costing them anything. This would be a huge boost to corporate profits. Boosts in corporate profits go to shareholders and executive management first and foremost, and to Bob last.

True dat, and I don't know whether anybody will seriously argue with you. When corporations act "nobly" by extending benefits they're not forced to, it's because at some level they are forced to -- competition for scarce, high-skilled employees in the upper echelon of fields like medicine, tech, and science generally. That kind of carrot is still going to be extended no matter what the general health care climate is, and anyway those people aren't the ones hurting since ironically they actually can pay out of pocket for their own care.

I see the logic in letting people who are covered by their employers have the option to keep their plans. As a rule, people hate change, and with something like health insurance and heath care they fear it for rational reasons. If you're doing OK in your row boat in shark-infested waters, you are afraid to let a hundred people swimming in the water into your boat (Obamacare) but you're equally afraid to leave your rowboat for a fancy new raft that can take everyone (Single Payer). Leave the rowboats alone while we launch the raft to pick up the vulnerable people.

It's true some of the sharks are the insurance industry and the various other parasitic industries that have been built to exploit people's dread of the cost of illness. The health care insurance industry is basically a protection racket. As a practical first step, let people who are happy paying protection money keep doing it while we take care of those who can't make the payments.

We are in the 1860s and watching the development of fire departments. First they are private and obey profit motive considerations, only putting out fires at premium-payers' houses. The first thing to do is create a network of public, non-profit fire departments. Don't bother trying to pry people away from private sector firehouses -- eventually, that will either take care of itself or they will somehow actually manage to stay competitive in which case they aren't hurting anybody.

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

True dat, and I don't know whether anybody will seriously argue with you. When corporations act "nobly" by extending benefits they're not forced to, it's because at some level they are forced to -- competition for scarce, high-skilled employees in the upper echelon of fields like medicine, tech, and science generally. That kind of carrot is still going to be extended no matter what the general health care climate is, and anyway those people aren't the ones hurting since ironically they actually can pay out of pocket for their own care.

I see the logic in letting people who are covered by their employers have the option to keep their plans. As a rule, people hate change, and with something like health insurance and heath care they fear it for rational reasons. If you're doing OK in your row boat in shark-infested waters, you are afraid to let a hundred people swimming in the water into your boat (Obamacare) but you're equally afraid to leave your rowboat for a fancy new raft that can take everyone (Single Payer). Leave the rowboats alone while we launch the raft to pick up the vulnerable people.

It's true some of the sharks are the insurance industry and the various other parasitic industries that have been built to exploit people's dread of the cost of illness. The health care insurance industry is basically a protection racket. As a practical first step, let people who are happy paying protection money keep doing it while we take care of those who can't make the payments.

We are in the 1860s and watching the development of fire departments. First they are private and obey profit motive considerations, only putting out fires at premium-payers' houses. The first thing to do is create a network of public, non-profit fire departments. Don't bother trying to pry people away from private sector firehouses -- eventually, that will either take care of itself or they will somehow actually manage to stay competitive in which case they aren't hurting anybody.

Excellent summary and exactly what I'm trying to say.

[mookie1995]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

We are in the 1860s and watching the development of fire departments. First they are private and obey profit motive considerations, only putting out fires at premium-payers' houses. The first thing to do is create a network of public, non-profit fire departments. Don't bother trying to pry people away from private sector firehouses -- eventually, that will either take care of itself or they will somehow actually manage to stay competitive in which case they aren't hurting anybody.

except then there was the ability to pay for the newfound public firehouses.

now, not so much.

[French Rage]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

Oops: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.ba3b3ec75a26

[Kepler]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

except then there was the ability to pay for the newfound public firehouses.

now, not so much.

Cut the military budget by 2/3rds. Use half of the savings to pay down the principal on the debt and the other third for health insurance. And... done.

[mookie1995]

Cut the military budget by 2/3rds. Use half of the savings to pay down the principal on the debt and the other third for health insurance. And... done.

Right after Halle Berry comes over and makes mookie lunch

[Kepler]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

Right after Halle Berry comes over and makes mookie lunch

Aim higher, man.