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  • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

    Sure. They move the ball. But don't pretend they don't funnel money to the rich. Until that changes its all just moving chairs on the Titanic.
    **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

    Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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    • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

      No, but you include a public option, and negotiate from there. The ACA is a right-leaning bill, its basic structure straight from the Heritage Group and Mitt Romney. That modern-day Republicans(and you) consider it liberal shows just how far to the right of center today's right wing is.

      You don't handicap yourself by introducing a right-leaning piece of legislation, and let them pull it further right with amendments(and there were Republican amendments added to the original bill). You start left, and then compromise toward the middle.

      Ryan's bill started even further right than the ACA, and then went even further trying to entice the Freedumb Caucus on board.
      What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

      Comment


      • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

        Originally posted by rufus View Post
        No, but you include a public option, and negotiate from there. The ACA is a right-leaning bill, its basic structure straight from the Heritage Group and Mitt Romney. That modern-day Republicans(and you) consider it liberal shows just how far to the right of center today's right wing is.

        You don't handicap yourself by introducing a right-leaning piece of legislation, and let them pull it further right with amendments(and there were Republican amendments added to the original bill). You start left, and then compromise toward the middle.

        Ryan's bill started even further right than the ACA, and then went even further trying to entice the Freedumb Caucus on board.
        So.....a surcharge on the rich...forcing insurers to spend 80% of revenue on care...and have to cover people with pre-existing conditions...and expanding Medicaid....are right leaning, Heritage Foundation ideas???? Oooookaayyyyyyy then.
        Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

        Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

        "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

        Comment


        • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

          Originally posted by Rover View Post
          So.....a surcharge on the rich...forcing insurers to spend 80% of revenue on care...and have to cover people with pre-existing conditions...and expanding Medicaid....are right leaning, Heritage Foundation ideas???? Oooookaayyyyyyy then.
          http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...are-plan-1993/

          President Bill Clinton took on an ill-fated effort to reform health care in 1993. As the president’s task force (led by First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton) worked behind closed doors to craft solutions to ever-rising health care costs and a growing number of uninsured families, Republicans scrambled to forge an alternative.

          Republican Sen. John Chafee of Rhode Island was the point man. The bill he introduced, Health Equity and Access Reform Today, (yes, that spells HEART) had a list of 20 co-sponsors that was a who’s who of Republican leadership. There was Minority Leader Bob Dole, R- Kan., Sens. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, Richard Lugar, R-Ind., and many others. There also were two Democratic co-sponsors.

          Among other features, the Chafee bill included:

          An individual mandate;

          Creation of purchasing pools;

          Standardized benefits;

          Vouchers for the poor to buy insurance;

          A ban on denying coverage based on a pre-existing condition.

          "You would find a great deal of similarity to provisions in the Affordable Care Act," Sheila Burke, Dole’s chief of staff in 1993, told PunditFact via email. "The guys were way ahead of the times!! Different crowd, different time, suffice it to say."

          That said, the Senate plan from 1993 was not identical to the health care law that passed in 2010. The Republican bill did not expand Medicaid as Obamacare does, and it did have medical malpractice tort reform, which the current law does not. In contrast to the current employer mandate, the Chafee bill required employers to offer insurance, but they were under no obligation to help pay for it.
          Cornell University
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          • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

            The same Chaffee that is now a Democrat? Always liked that guy (and his father).

            Not sure what your point is. Do you dispute the ACA is a liberal bill with liberal concepts or not? Simple question.
            Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

            Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

            "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

            Comment


            • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

              Originally posted by Rover View Post
              The same Chaffee that is now a Democrat? Always liked that guy (and his father).

              Not sure what your point is. Do you dispute the ACA is a liberal bill with liberal concepts or not? Simple question.
              And that matters because, why? Seriously. Why are you so hung up on it? The liberals just got their *** kicked on national TV in November and you're worried about whether this bill is considered liberal or not? In the grand scheme of things it matters not.

              As has been pointed out numerous times. The bill has some good things in it but it doesn't go far enough. Just like Dodd-Frank didn't go far enough. I'm as shocked as anyone it's staying intact but that's not a good thing right now as it is broken and everyone knows it's broken.

              Meanwhile Bannon, Priebus, and Trump are dismantling every regulation they can get their hands on. And the HHS secretary (Tom Price) will be able to do the same with Obamacare. It's not a good thing.
              **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

              Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
              Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

              Comment


              • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                And that matters because, why? Seriously. Why are you so hung up on it? The liberals just got their *** kicked on national TV in November and you're worried about whether this bill is considered liberal or not? In the grand scheme of things it matters not.

                As has been pointed out numerous times. The bill has some good things in it but it doesn't go far enough. Just like Dodd-Frank didn't go far enough. I'm as shocked as anyone it's staying intact but that's not a good thing right now as it is broken and everyone knows it's broken.

                Meanwhile Bannon, Priebus, and Trump are dismantling every regulation they can get their hands on. And the HHS secretary (Tom Price) will be able to do the same with Obamacare. It's not a good thing.
                Because its a liberal legislative victory that will apparently endure. That's the point. Without the force of law, Bannon, Priebus, Trump etc will lose in court, like they have been already because you just can't ignore laws that you don't like. Much like Dodd-Frank. The problem with too many lefties out here is absolutism. If we didn't get single payer 8 years ago, it wasn't worth it. A completely absurd stance to take, but sadly one far too many Dems have adopted. If the other side is blasting all of Obama's accomplishments...and then our side is ALSO blasting all of Obama's accomplishments...can you not draw a straight line between that and depressed Dem voter turnout?

                Celebrate victories when they happen Scoobs. Leave it to the knucks' to try to minimize the accomplishment. Really, they've got it covered.
                Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                Comment


                • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                  Originally posted by Rover View Post
                  Because its a liberal legislative victory that will apparently endure. That's the point. Without the force of law, Bannon, Priebus, Trump etc will lose in court, like they have been already because you just can't ignore laws that you don't like. Much like Dodd-Frank. The problem with too many lefties out here is absolutism. If we didn't get single payer 8 years ago, it wasn't worth it. A completely absurd stance to take, but sadly one far too many Dems have adopted. If the other side is blasting all of Obama's accomplishments...and then our side is ALSO blasting all of Obama's accomplishments...can you not draw a straight line between that and depressed Dem voter turnout?

                  Celebrate victories when they happen Scoobs. Leave it to the knucks' to try to minimize the accomplishment. Really, they've got it covered.
                  HHS Secretary has a lot of power here. Victory at the time, yes, but enduring victory wasn't achieved. The Democrats were never able to fix and tweak the law to make it better. The party that wants to destroy the law got full power over everything.

                  Sorry, I'm not cheering here. I know many people got good things out of the law but I got the shaft. And celebrations are over as far as I'm concerned.
                  **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                  Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                  Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                  Comment


                  • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                    If it makes you feel better, consider this. Your goal of single payer got a lot closer. Americans clearly rejected a roll back of Medicaid expansion, one of the more unpopular proposals Ryan and team came up with. Furthermore, as a result of the ACA I've seen almost uniform agreement amongst Dems on the wisdom of a Medicare buy-in for those 50 and over. That's a tough proposal for Goopers to oppose since it directly benefits a core constituency of theirs.
                    Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                    Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                    "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                    Comment


                    • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                      Originally posted by Rover View Post
                      The problem with too many lefties out here is absolutism. If we didn't get single payer 8 years ago, it wasn't worth it. A completely absurd stance to take, but sadly one far too many Dems have adopted.
                      Except nobody has.

                      The election is over, Rover. Get out of your head and get back in the fight.
                      Cornell University
                      National Champion 1967, 1970
                      ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                      Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                      Comment


                      • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                        As soon as it became likely that Obamacare was on the chopping block, it got popular. It's +6 or so after being -10 to -15 over the past 7 years. Maybe it's because Paul Ryan is a Randian imbecile, though.
                        "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


                        Western Michigan Bronco Hockey- 2012 Mason Cup Champions

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                        • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                          Originally posted by bronconick View Post
                          As soon as it became likely that Obamacare was on the chopping block, it got popular. It's +6 or so after being -10 to -15 over the past 7 years. Maybe it's because Paul Ryan is a Randian imbecile, though.
                          Prior to 2 weeks ago, I doubt more than 5% of Republican voters understood anything about Obamacare other than "that n-gger did it!"

                          Trump in particular and this bunch of Republicans in general are great rabble rousers but incompetent to govern. I suspect they can't wait to stage their Grand Theft and then go back to the opposition where they can be irresponsible critics again.
                          Cornell University
                          National Champion 1967, 1970
                          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                          • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                            Except nobody has.

                            The election is over, Rover. Get out of your head and get back in the fight.
                            No, the problems aren't. Dems have sat out the 2010, 2014, and 2016 elections. Don't you want to know why?
                            Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                            Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                            "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                            Comment


                            • Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...

                              LOL.
                              Cornell University
                              National Champion 1967, 1970
                              ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                              Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                              • Originally posted by Rover View Post
                                The same Chaffee that is now a Democrat? Always liked that guy (and his father).

                                Not sure what your point is. Do you dispute the ACA is a liberal bill with liberal concepts or not? Simple question.
                                You're thinking of the son Lincoln Chaffee, who was a republican but became a democrat.

                                No, the ACA is not a liberal bill. The only reason people think it is liberal is because the republicans have lurched to the extreme right. Obama went with something he thought could get some moderate republican support rather than go for something liberal like Medicare for all.

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