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Thread: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

  1. #521

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    but they didn't win until the third try...I understand that we're talking about 4 games, but its hard to say that 1960s AFL was on par wit 1960 NFL. I guess I understand your distinction that we don't really know and from what I read it makes some sense to give the AFL a level value with the number of stolen draft picks, etc...the USFL did that too...
    The NFL was 3 yards and a cloud of dust. The AFL was wide open and innovative.

  2. #522

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    Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    The NFL was 3 yards and a cloud of dust. The AFL was wide open and innovative.
    Why was that? I mean, I understand the show biz reason -- the AFL needed to pull eyeballs and had no traditional fanbases. But how did the AFL turn into such a wild league? Were the rules different?

    BTW, my dad (a lifetime rabid Notre Dame fan) would refer to the Big 10 dismissively as "3 yards and a cloud of dust."
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  3. #523
    Old Dirty Basterd Shirtless Guy's Avatar
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    Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Why was that? I mean, I understand the show biz reason -- the AFL needed to pull eyeballs and had no traditional fanbases. But how did the AFL turn into such a wild league? Were the rules different?

    BTW, my dad (a lifetime rabid Notre Dame fan) would refer to the Big 10 dismissively as "3 yards and a cloud of dust."
    I think some of that comes from the attitude of the owners like Al davis being less conservative people.

  4. #524

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Why was that? I mean, I understand the show biz reason -- the AFL needed to pull eyeballs and had no traditional fanbases. But how did the AFL turn into such a wild league? Were the rules different?

    BTW, my dad (a lifetime rabid Notre Dame fan) would refer to the Big 10 dismissively as "3 yards and a cloud of dust."
    The AFL had the 2 point conversion from the get go. It also used a "less fat" ball than the NFL's Duke that was easier to throw deep.

    Also, for a young kid, the AFL was more fun to watch on TV.

  5. #525

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    Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    It also used a "less fat" ball than the NFL's Duke that was easier to throw deep.
    I had no idea about that. That makes a lot of sense. I came to football sentience just after the merger, but even so the post-AFL teams had the reputation of going long far more often, and that would explain it.

    Did the NFL adopt the AFL ball after the merger or did they just start drafting QBs with the palm width of an orangutan?

    Edit: Some history.

    Wilson Sporting Goods Co., with the help of famed Notre Dame head coach Knute Rockne, developed a new double-lined football in 1924. The following year, the first valve-inflated football eliminated the need for a stem, which had always caused a lump under the laces. With Rockne's name on the ball, the "KR," as it was known, was easier to throw in a tight spiral, and it paved the way for the modern passing game.

    In 1935, the NFL shortened the ball's short axis to between 21-1/4 and 21-1/2 in. The ball's length was shortened that year to between 11 and 11-1/4 in., and the amount of air that it could hold was set at 12.5 to 13.5 psi. Its long axis of 28 to 28-1/2 in., however, did not change. These dimensions remain today, as does the ball's shape, which has been called a "prolate spheroid" since 1890.

    In 1941, with "Slingin'" Sammy Baugh of the Washington Redskins fast becoming the NFL's first great passing quarterback, Wilson purchased "The Duke" name from rival Spalding. Ever since, Wilson has been the official manufacturer of all NFL footballs. The Duke, also used by the American Football League from 1960 to 1969, received a name change in 1969 when the two leagues merged. It is now simply called the NFL ball. Wilson continued to improve the ball with such innovations as hand-sewn ends, triple lining and lock-stitch seams. In 1951, rubber footballs were tried briefly, and in 1956, the NFL approved the use of easier-to-see white footballs for night games. This evolved into special night footballs with white stripes around each end—banned in 1976 because the paint made the balls slick. In 1955, Wilson developed the TD football, which featured a new Tanned-in-Tack material, also known as Grip-Tite. This material has a tacky feel that makes the ball easier to grip, especially when wet. The exclusive Tanned-in-Tack cowhide leather is supplied by the Horween Leather Co., and has been since 1941. That's right. No pigskin. In 1981, a new Ultra Pebble design for the leather, which further enhanced the grip, was introduced. Inside the ball is a high-tech three-ply polyurethane bladder. Two of the layers are standard polyurethane but the third is a unique material, which is secret. In fact, Wilson's bladder recipe is such a well-kept secret that factory tours in that area of the facility are forbidden. The lacing, once fragile cotton, like shoelaces, is now made of an extruded polyvinyl chloride, which is more durable.
    Last edited by Kepler; 07-13-2017 at 09:59 AM.
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  6. #526

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    Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    but they didn't win until the third try...I understand that we're talking about 4 games, but its hard to say that 1960s AFL was on par wit 1960 NFL. I guess I understand your distinction that we don't really know and from what I read it makes some sense to give the AFL a level value with the number of stolen draft picks, etc...the USFL did that too...
    Here's an interesting comparison:

    (D)espite the AFL triumphs in Super Bowls III and IV, the old-guard NFL was still widely expected to dominate the merged league over the course of an entire season. In 1970, these predictions were proven to be more or less correct, since out of 60 regular season games pitting old-line NFL teams versus former AFL teams, former AFL teams won only 19 while losing 39 (two games ended in ties). Only Oakland managed to post a winning record against old-line NFL opposition, going 3-2. Nevertheless, out of the three NFL teams to join the AFC, only the Colts managed to secure a playoff berth.
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  7. #527

    Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    #21 - Detroit Lions
    Points: 82.3896
    Super Bowl Championships:
    0
    NFL Championships: 4 (1935, 1952, 1953, 1957)
    Playoff Appearances: 18 (7-14 (0.333))

    The Detroit Lions come in at #21 on this list. The Lions joined the NFL following the 1929 season as the Portsmouth Spartans, and had almost immediate success, finishing 2nd in 1931 and losing the first NFL playoff game to the Chicago Bears in 1932 (which was played indoors on an 80-yard field at Chicago Stadium and due to its interest spawned the first NFL Championship Game the following season). The Spartans moved to Detroit following the 1933 season and became the Detroit Lions. The franchise picked up where they left off and won their first NFL Title in 1935. The Lions were competitive until World War II broke out, finishing no worse than .500, but the War Years were not kind to Detroit. The Lions would go 0-11 in 1942, and would only score 5 offensive TDs the entire season. Fortunately, the 1950s were Detroit's heyday. The Lions played in 4 NFL Championship games (all against Cleveland) between 1952-1957, winning 3 titles. Unfortunately for the Gridiron Heroes, they have struggled since 1957. Detroit has only won 3 division titles and 1 playoff game in the past 60 seasons, and are one of only 4 NFL teams to have never appeared in a Super Bowl (along with Cleveland, Jacksonville, and Houston). The Lions have only 1 appearance in an NFC Championship game, coming in 1991 against Washington, which resulted in a 41-10 defeat to the eventual Super Bowl Champions. The Lions have had some recent success, advancing to the postseason in 3 of the last 6 seasons. If Detroit can continue that positive momentum, win some more hardware, and perhaps finally make it to the Super Bowl, they will likely move up these rankings.

    #21 - Detroit Lions: 82.3896 Points
    #22 - Tennessee Titans: 78.9047 Points
    #23 - Los Angeles Chargers: 68.583 Points
    #24 - New York Jets: 57.2376 Points
    #25 - New Orleans Saints: 51.8186 Points
    #26 - Arizona Cardinals: 49.1015 Points
    #27 - Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 44.2051 Points
    #28 - Cincinnati Bengals: 42.3729 Points
    #29 - Atlanta Falcons: 40.6032 Points
    #30 - Carolina Panthers: 38.3619 Points
    #31 - Jacksonville Jaguars: 9.9472 Points
    #32 - Houston Texans: 9.4392 Points
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  8. #528
    NEVER DIE! ShirtlessBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
    #21 - Detroit Lions
    Points: 82.3896
    Super Bowl Championships:
    0
    NFL Championships: 4 (1935, 1952, 1953, 1957)
    Playoff Appearances: 18 (7-14 (0.333))

    The Detroit Lions come in at #21 on this list. The Lions joined the NFL following the 1929 season as the Portsmouth Spartans, and had almost immediate success, finishing 2nd in 1931 and losing the first NFL playoff game to the Chicago Bears in 1932 (which was played indoors on an 80-yard field at Chicago Stadium and due to its interest spawned the first NFL Championship Game the following season). The Spartans moved to Detroit following the 1933 season and became the Detroit Lions. The franchise picked up where they left off and won their first NFL Title in 1935. The Lions were competitive until World War II broke out, finishing no worse than .500, but the War Years were not kind to Detroit. The Lions would go 0-11 in 1942, and would only score 5 offensive TDs the entire season. Fortunately, the 1950s were Detroit's heyday. The Lions played in 4 NFL Championship games (all against Cleveland) between 1952-1957, winning 3 titles. Unfortunately for the Gridiron Heroes, they have struggled since 1957. Detroit has only won 3 division titles and 1 playoff game in the past 60 seasons, and are one of only 4 NFL teams to have never appeared in a Super Bowl (along with Cleveland, Jacksonville, and Houston). The Lions have only 1 appearance in an NFC Championship game, coming in 1991 against Washington, which resulted in a 41-10 defeat to the eventual Super Bowl Champions. The Lions have had some recent success, advancing to the postseason in 3 of the last 6 seasons. If Detroit can continue that positive momentum, win some more hardware, and perhaps finally make it to the Super Bowl, they will likely move up these rankings.

    #21 - Detroit Lions: 82.3896 Points
    #22 - Tennessee Titans: 78.9047 Points
    #23 - Los Angeles Chargers: 68.583 Points
    #24 - New York Jets: 57.2376 Points
    #25 - New Orleans Saints: 51.8186 Points
    #26 - Arizona Cardinals: 49.1015 Points
    #27 - Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 44.2051 Points
    #28 - Cincinnati Bengals: 42.3729 Points
    #29 - Atlanta Falcons: 40.6032 Points
    #30 - Carolina Panthers: 38.3619 Points
    #31 - Jacksonville Jaguars: 9.9472 Points
    #32 - Houston Texans: 9.4392 Points
    If the Lions got off their *** and actually won a Super Bowl, where would they rank?

  9. #529

    Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by ShirtlessBob View Post
    If the Lions got off their *** and actually won a Super Bowl, where would they rank?
    If the Lions were to win the Super Bowl next season, they would likely move up about 6-7 spots. Even a Super Bowl appearance would likely bump them up about 2-4 spots.
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  10. #530

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    Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
    If the Lions were to win the Super Bowl next season, they would likely move up about 6-7 spots. Even a Super Bowl appearance would likely bump them up about 2-4 spots.
    The real question is how many consecutive Super Bowls would the Lions need to win to become #1?
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  11. #531

    Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    The real question is how many consecutive Super Bowls would the Lions need to win to become #1?
    It would depend on how teams in the top 5 did in those seasons, but somewhere around 7-9 consecutive Super Bowl wins would push the Lions up to #1.
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  12. #532
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    Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
    It would depend on how teams in the top 5 did in those seasons, but somewhere around 7-9 consecutive Super Bowl wins would push the Lions up to #1.
    How many consecutive Super Bowl losses would push the Lions past the Buffalo Bills?

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    Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedCornellian View Post
    How many consecutive Super Bowl losses would push the Lions past the Buffalo Bills?
    Ouch.
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  14. #534

    Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedCornellian View Post
    How many consecutive Super Bowl losses would push the Lions past the Buffalo Bills?
    Ask your question again after the Bills are unveiled and I'll answer it.
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    Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedCornellian View Post
    How many consecutive Super Bowl losses would push the Lions past the Buffalo Bills?
    The Lions would have to make it, first of all.
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  16. #536

    Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    #20 - Seattle Seahawks
    Points: 87.379
    Super Bowl Championships:
    1 (XLVIII)
    NFL Championships: 1 (2013)
    Playoff Appearances: 16 (16-15 (0.516))

    The Seattle Seahawks come in at #20 on this list. The Seahawks joined the NFL along with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers for the 1976 and, as expected, struggled to a 2-12 record in the NFC West. Seattle switched conferences following the season and would play in the AFC West from 1977-2001. In the AFC West, the Seahawks had some success, including a pair of 9-7 records in 1978 and 1979. The Hawks would make their first trip to the NFL playoffs in 1983, advancing to the AFC Championship before falling to the eventual Super Bowl champion Oakland Raiders. Seattle would make three additional trips in the next five seasons, and won their first division championship in 1988. Unfortunately, the next decade would be difficult for the Seahawks, as they struggled to post 1 winning record and no playoff appearances. Seattle got back on track in 1999, winning their second, and last, title in the AFC West. Seattle moved back to the NFC West in 2002 (becoming the only franchise to switch conferences twice), and quickly established itself as a force in the league. In the 15 seasons since moving back to the NFC side, Seattle has won 8 division titles, made 11 trips to the NFL playoffs, won 13 playoff games (including at least 1 in their past 9 appearances), advanced to the Super Bowl 3 times, and won their first Super Bowl in dominating fashion over the Denver Broncos in Super Bowl XLVIII. Needless to say, if Seattle can maintain this type of success, they will continue their rise up these rankings.

    #20 - Seattle Seahawks: 87.379 Points
    #21 - Detroit Lions: 82.3896 Points
    #22 - Tennessee Titans: 78.9047 Points
    #23 - Los Angeles Chargers: 68.583 Points
    #24 - New York Jets: 57.2376 Points
    #25 - New Orleans Saints: 51.8186 Points
    #26 - Arizona Cardinals: 49.1015 Points
    #27 - Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 44.2051 Points
    #28 - Cincinnati Bengals: 42.3729 Points
    #29 - Atlanta Falcons: 40.6032 Points
    #30 - Carolina Panthers: 38.3619 Points
    #31 - Jacksonville Jaguars: 9.9472 Points
    #32 - Houston Texans: 9.4392 Points
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    National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

  17. #537

    Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    #19 - Buffalo Bills
    Points: 95.567
    Super Bowl Championships:
    0
    NFL Championships: 0*
    Playoff Appearances: 17 (14-15 (0.483))

    The Buffalo Bills come in at #19 on this list. The Bills were an original franchise of the American Football League, and quickly enjoyed success, winning back-to-back AFL Championships in 1964 and 1965 under Head Coach Lou Saban** and nearly pulling off the three-peat before falling to the Kansas City Chiefs in the 1966 AFL title game. Buffalo largely struggled after the AFL-NFL merger, winning 1 division title and advancing to the playoffs 3 times between 1970-1987; however, the following decade of play would showcase the Bills' modern heyday. Between 1988 and 1999 the Bills made 10 trips to the playoffs, won 6 of their 11 division titles, won 11 of their 14 playoff games, and accomplished a feat unlikely to be repeated in the near future by playing in four consecutive Super Bowls. Unfortunately, the Bills were unable to capitalize at the Super Bowl. To add on to the disappointment, the 21st Century has not been kind to Billy Buffalo and the franchise's faithful fans. The Bills have the longest current streak without a playoff appearance, currently at 17 seasons, and have only 2 winning seasons in that time frame. Buffalo will look to improve in the 2017 season, and perhaps make their long-awaited return to the playoffs. If they do, and perhaps win some hardware along the way, they could rise in these rankings.

    #19 - Buffalo Bills: 95.567 Points
    #20 - Seattle Seahawks: 87.379 Points
    #21 - Detroit Lions: 82.3896 Points
    #22 - Tennessee Titans: 78.9047 Points
    #23 - Los Angeles Chargers: 68.583 Points
    #24 - New York Jets: 57.2376 Points
    #25 - New Orleans Saints: 51.8186 Points
    #26 - Arizona Cardinals: 49.1015 Points
    #27 - Tampa Bay Buccaneers: 44.2051 Points
    #28 - Cincinnati Bengals: 42.3729 Points
    #29 - Atlanta Falcons: 40.6032 Points
    #30 - Carolina Panthers: 38.3619 Points
    #31 - Jacksonville Jaguars: 9.9472 Points
    #32 - Houston Texans: 9.4392 Points

    *The Buffalo Bills won 2 AFL Championships in 1964 and 1965 before the AFL-NFL merger.
    ** Lou Saban is a distant cousin of legendary college coach Nick Saban.
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  18. #538
    I got nothing Slap Shot's Avatar
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    Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    I will ask (as is the norm) where Buffalo would rank had they won even 1 SB and will preemptively ask when you get to Minnesota where they would rank had they won even 1.

    Thanks

  19. #539

    Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post
    I will ask (as is the norm) where Buffalo would rank had they won even 1 SB and will preemptively ask when you get to Minnesota where they would rank had they won even 1.

    Thanks
    Had Scott Norwood's field goal sailed just inside the right upright (or had Buffalo succeeded in any of their other Super Bowl appearances), they would be about 3-4 spots higher. I'll try to remember your question about the Vikings when they appear on this list, but feel free to ask the question again when they are posted.
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  20. #540
    NICKERSON HAS [CENSORED]
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    Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post
    I will ask (as is the norm) where Buffalo would rank had they won even 1 SB and will preemptively ask when you get to Minnesota where they would rank had they won even 1.

    Thanks
    What if Harry Connick Jr hadn't stolen Thurman Thomas's helmet?

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