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NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

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  • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    I thought the difference was "beyond a reasonable doubt" vs "probably caused the death". However, a good point is the big difference is Hernandez isn't around to aid his defense in a civil suit unlike OJ...
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    • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
      Wait, are they a simple superset/subset relation? That is, if you are found criminally liable are you by definition civilly liable? I always thought they were entirely different charges, not the same charge tried at different standards (which seems like double jeopardy)?
      pretty sure double jeopardy is either applied separately between civil and criminal courts or only applied to criminal courts.
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      • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
        Wait, are they a simple superset/subset relation? That is, if you are found criminally liable are you by definition civilly liable? I always thought they were entirely different charges, not the same charge tried at different standards (which seems like double jeopardy)?
        Yeah, I think that you can be found guilty, but not civilly liable, and vice versa, as happened in Simpson. The parties are different. In one case the parties are the wrongdoer and the state. In the other, the parties are the wrongdoer and the injured party, or his heirs. But maybe things are different in some states.

        But if you are found guilty and sitting in prison, that's going to come out in the civil case, so it's pretty unlikely you will escape civil liability. Also, if you testified in the criminal case, or were asked during a plea of guilty to tell what you did to provide a factual basis for your plea, that will probably be used against you in the civil case.

        Whether his daughter ever inherits anything is going to be another matter. I imagine it will have to do with what claims exist against the estate.
        That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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        • Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
          I assume bc there is no criminal conviction and the defendant isn't alive to defend himself, things are much more difficult or even impossible to get anywhere?
          Civil liability is much easier to get to than criminal. Preponderance of the evidence vs beyond all reasonable doubt. There's also fewer constitutional safeguards for civil trials (you can be compelled to testify, for instance)

          Criminal trials go first because you can't force someone to testify against themselves in criminal cases. You can in civil, and you can introduce statements made under oath (such as at trial), which leads to a catch-22 if the civil trial goes first.

          Plaintiffs don't usually mind waiting, either, because a criminal conviction essentially guarantees winning a civil case without a trial due to that difference in burden.
          Last edited by unofan; 04-21-2017, 01:56 PM.

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          • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            Wait, are they a simple superset/subset relation? That is, if you are found criminally liable are you by definition civilly liable? I always thought they were entirely different charges, not the same charge tried at different standards (which seems like double jeopardy)?
            A criminal conviction can be used to prove civil liability if the elements are the same.

            An acquittal at the criminal stage means nothing, because it's a higher standard of guilt.

            Put another way, meeting a beyond all reasonable doubt standard necessarily includes meeting a preponderance of the evidence standard. But not satisfying beyond all reasonable doubt doesn't mean you couldn't still satisfy a preponderance of the evidence standard.

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            • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

              The truth will out.

              http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/...qFC?li=BBnba9I
              A bad cause requires many words.

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              • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

                Adrian Peterson to the Saints on a 2 year deal.
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                • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

                  Originally posted by ShirtlessBob View Post
                  Adrian Peterson to the Saints on a 2 year deal.
                  They'll need to extend the bounties to family members.
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                  • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

                    With the #1 pick in the 2017 draft, the Cleveland Browns ruin the career of...

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                    • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

                      Oh... the melts in Chicago will be epic.

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                      • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

                        That was a defensible pick.

                        The Bears, on the other hand....
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                        God, that was fun...

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                        • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

                          I was flipping and happened to catch that pick.

                          Did the Bears give up all those picks to move up one spot?

                          Did they think SF might take him?

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                          • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

                            LOLBears
                            "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


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                            • Originally posted by Gurtholfin View Post
                              I was flipping and happened to catch that pick.

                              Did the Bears give up all those picks to move up one spot?

                              Did they think SF might take him?
                              That's really the only reason to move up just that 1 spot.

                              I thought only the Browns had that level of Lulz. Bad. News. Bears.

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                              • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

                                The NFL thread on the Hawks hfboards page is gold.

                                Those folks are already down and now this?


                                LOLOLOLOLOLOL

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