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NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

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  • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

    Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
    The NFL considers it a Championship.
    Ok, sure but I doubt you give it the same weight as the Detroit Lions NFL titles pre-Super Bowl or any of the Dallas Cowboys Super Bowl titles post merger? An NFL Title from 1966 to 1969 should not have the same weight...
    Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

    Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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    • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

      Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
      Ok, sure but I doubt you give it the same weight as the Detroit Lions NFL titles pre-Super Bowl or any of the Dallas Cowboys Super Bowl titles post merger? An NFL Title from 1966 to 1969 should not have the same weight...
      I'd weight a title by the number of teams in the pool from which that title was derived: 32 in 2016, 26 in 1973, 10 in 1945, etc. In 1965 Green Bay's NFL title is worth 14 and Buffalo's AFL title is worth 8. In 1966 the Packer's Super Bowl win is 15+9 = 24. The Chiefs get nothing for their AFL title because it is non-terminal.
      Last edited by Kepler; 07-12-2017, 11:29 AM.
      Cornell University
      National Champion 1967, 1970
      ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
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      • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

        Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
        Ok, sure but I doubt you give it the same weight as the Detroit Lions NFL titles pre-Super Bowl or any of the Dallas Cowboys Super Bowl titles post merger? An NFL Title from 1966 to 1969 should not have the same weight...
        It's an identical accomplishment to any pre-merger NFL title after 1932 (when they stopped naming NFL Champions and began playing an NFL Championship Game). Why should it not have the same weight?
        North Dakota
        National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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        • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

          Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
          I never take this place seriously, Shirley.
          And I believe you just like I believe Trump's son about that meeting with the Russians.
          Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

          Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

          "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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          • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            I'd weight a title by the number of teams in the pool from which that title was derived: 32 in 2016, 26 in 1973, 10 in 1945, etc. In 1965 Green Bay's NFL title is worth 14 and Buffalo's AFL title is worth 8. In 1966 the Packer's Super Bowl win is 15+9 = 24. The Chiefs get nothing for their AFL title because it is non-terminal.
            That is an interesting way to weight titles, although I disagree that the Chiefs should be punished for playing an extra, non-league game.
            North Dakota
            National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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            • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

              Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
              It's an identical accomplishment to any pre-merger NFL title after 1932 (when they stopped naming NFL Champions and began playing an NFL Championship Game). Why should it not have the same weight?
              It should be weighted the same as winning an NFC Championship game...it was not the ultimate prize in that moment in time...
              Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

              Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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              • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

                Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
                It should be weighted the same as winning an NFC Championship game...it was not the ultimate prize in that moment in time...
                So should the 1960-1965 NFL/AFL Championships (along with all other years where there was more than 1 professional league) be split in weight since neither champion could claim an outright championship?
                North Dakota
                National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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                • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

                  Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
                  So should the 1960-1965 NFL/AFL Championships (along with all other years where there was more than 1 league) be split in weight since neither champion could claim an outright championship?
                  no because until the NFL agreed to play the AFL, the NFL was the league. We wouldn't give equal weight between the Super Champ and the XFL/USFL champion? The agreement to play each other in what became the Super Bowl is what gives the AFL its ultimate credibility...obviously I wasn't alive then to know what it was like to experience the NFL/AFL relationship pre-merger...
                  Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                  Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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                  • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

                    Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
                    no because until the NFL agreed to play the AFL, the NFL was the league. We wouldn't give equal weight between the Super Champ and the XFL/USFL champion? The agreement to play each other in what became the Super Bowl is what gives the AFL its ultimate credibility...obviously I wasn't alive then to know what it was like to experience the NFL/AFL relationship pre-merger...
                    The NFL went 50% against the AFL. Hard to just say the NFL was the league when the facts that we have show that they were equals.

                    ETA: At the end of the day, I believe identical accomplishments should be weighted the same, and that is how my formula is done. If you want to argue that championships won that were not the "ultimate prize," then logically you should also accept that NFL Championships won between 1960-1965 should be weighed the same as NFL Championships won between 1966-1969. I understand you want to say that the NFL Championship pre-Super Bowl was the "ultimate prize," but there is simply no hard evidence to support that, and it is also flawed when you start looking at how the NFL compared with the AFL when they did play in the Super Bowl (i.e. they won as many times as they lost suggesting that the league champions were equal).
                    Last edited by Fighting Sioux 23; 07-12-2017, 12:33 PM.
                    North Dakota
                    National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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                    • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

                      Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
                      The NFL went 50% against the AFL. Hard to just say the NFL was the league when the facts that we have show that they were equals.

                      ETA: At the end of the day, I believe identical accomplishments should be weighted the same, and that is how my formula is done. If you want to argue that championships won that were not the "ultimate prize," then logically you should also accept that NFL Championships won between 1960-1965 should be weighed the same as NFL Championships won between 1966-1969. I understand you want to say that the NFL Championship pre-Super Bowl was the "ultimate prize," but there is simply no hard evidence to support that, and it is also flawed when you start looking at how the NFL compared with the AFL when they did play in the Super Bowl (i.e. they won as many times as they lost suggesting that the league champions were equal).
                      but they didn't win until the third try...I understand that we're talking about 4 games, but its hard to say that 1960s AFL was on par wit 1960 NFL. I guess I understand your distinction that we don't really know and from what I read it makes some sense to give the AFL a level value with the number of stolen draft picks, etc...the USFL did that too...
                      Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                      Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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                      • Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
                        but they didn't win until the third try...I understand that we're talking about 4 games, but its hard to say that 1960s AFL was on par wit 1960 NFL. I guess I understand your distinction that we don't really know and from what I read it makes some sense to give the AFL a level value with the number of stolen draft picks, etc...the USFL did that too...
                        The NFL was 3 yards and a cloud of dust. The AFL was wide open and innovative.
                        CCT '77 & '78
                        4 kids
                        5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                        1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                        ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                        - Benjamin Franklin

                        Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                        I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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                        • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

                          Originally posted by joecct View Post
                          The NFL was 3 yards and a cloud of dust. The AFL was wide open and innovative.
                          Why was that? I mean, I understand the show biz reason -- the AFL needed to pull eyeballs and had no traditional fanbases. But how did the AFL turn into such a wild league? Were the rules different?

                          BTW, my dad (a lifetime rabid Notre Dame fan) would refer to the Big 10 dismissively as "3 yards and a cloud of dust."
                          Cornell University
                          National Champion 1967, 1970
                          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                          • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

                            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                            Why was that? I mean, I understand the show biz reason -- the AFL needed to pull eyeballs and had no traditional fanbases. But how did the AFL turn into such a wild league? Were the rules different?

                            BTW, my dad (a lifetime rabid Notre Dame fan) would refer to the Big 10 dismissively as "3 yards and a cloud of dust."
                            I think some of that comes from the attitude of the owners like Al davis being less conservative people.
                            Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                            Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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                            • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                              Why was that? I mean, I understand the show biz reason -- the AFL needed to pull eyeballs and had no traditional fanbases. But how did the AFL turn into such a wild league? Were the rules different?

                              BTW, my dad (a lifetime rabid Notre Dame fan) would refer to the Big 10 dismissively as "3 yards and a cloud of dust."
                              The AFL had the 2 point conversion from the get go. It also used a "less fat" ball than the NFL's Duke that was easier to throw deep.

                              Also, for a young kid, the AFL was more fun to watch on TV.
                              CCT '77 & '78
                              4 kids
                              5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                              1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                              ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                              - Benjamin Franklin

                              Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                              I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                              Comment


                              • Re: NFL 2016-17 II: Playoffs, Super Bowl, and Offseason

                                Originally posted by joecct View Post
                                It also used a "less fat" ball than the NFL's Duke that was easier to throw deep.
                                I had no idea about that. That makes a lot of sense. I came to football sentience just after the merger, but even so the post-AFL teams had the reputation of going long far more often, and that would explain it.

                                Did the NFL adopt the AFL ball after the merger or did they just start drafting QBs with the palm width of an orangutan?

                                Edit: Some history.

                                Wilson Sporting Goods Co., with the help of famed Notre Dame head coach Knute Rockne, developed a new double-lined football in 1924. The following year, the first valve-inflated football eliminated the need for a stem, which had always caused a lump under the laces. With Rockne's name on the ball, the "KR," as it was known, was easier to throw in a tight spiral, and it paved the way for the modern passing game.

                                In 1935, the NFL shortened the ball's short axis to between 21-1/4 and 21-1/2 in. The ball's length was shortened that year to between 11 and 11-1/4 in., and the amount of air that it could hold was set at 12.5 to 13.5 psi. Its long axis of 28 to 28-1/2 in., however, did not change. These dimensions remain today, as does the ball's shape, which has been called a "prolate spheroid" since 1890.

                                In 1941, with "Slingin'" Sammy Baugh of the Washington Redskins fast becoming the NFL's first great passing quarterback, Wilson purchased "The Duke" name from rival Spalding. Ever since, Wilson has been the official manufacturer of all NFL footballs. The Duke, also used by the American Football League from 1960 to 1969, received a name change in 1969 when the two leagues merged. It is now simply called the NFL ball. Wilson continued to improve the ball with such innovations as hand-sewn ends, triple lining and lock-stitch seams. In 1951, rubber footballs were tried briefly, and in 1956, the NFL approved the use of easier-to-see white footballs for night games. This evolved into special night footballs with white stripes around each end—banned in 1976 because the paint made the balls slick. In 1955, Wilson developed the TD football, which featured a new Tanned-in-Tack material, also known as Grip-Tite. This material has a tacky feel that makes the ball easier to grip, especially when wet. The exclusive Tanned-in-Tack cowhide leather is supplied by the Horween Leather Co., and has been since 1941. That's right. No pigskin. In 1981, a new Ultra Pebble design for the leather, which further enhanced the grip, was introduced. Inside the ball is a high-tech three-ply polyurethane bladder. Two of the layers are standard polyurethane but the third is a unique material, which is secret. In fact, Wilson's bladder recipe is such a well-kept secret that factory tours in that area of the facility are forbidden. The lacing, once fragile cotton, like shoelaces, is now made of an extruded polyvinyl chloride, which is more durable.
                                Last edited by Kepler; 07-13-2017, 08:59 AM.
                                Cornell University
                                National Champion 1967, 1970
                                ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                                Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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