2017 NCAA Women's Frozen Four

[Sean Pickett]

Re: 2017 NCAA Women's Frozen Four

Yes, but that was a classic old rink, this one is relatively new. Newer rinks should conform to minimum standards.

The NCAA actually has no minimum standards according to the NCAA Ice Hockey 2016-17 and 2017-18 Rules and Interpretations:

1.2 Dimensions - As nearly as possible, the dimensions of the rink shall be 200 feet long and 85 feet wide. The corners should be rounded in the arc of a circle with a radius of 20 feet.

By the way, when Army's old Smith Rink opened on 10 January 1931 it was 232'x90' and the New York Times stated it was "the largest skating surface in the United States."

Sean

[ARM]

Re: 2017 NCAA Women's Frozen Four

Having voted for FF All-Tourney teams in the past, they usually ask for the ballots back so early that it excludes the last 10 minutes in the third period. Sometimes, you have to vote "Winning goaltender" because the game is still tied.

[robertearle]

Re: 2017 NCAA Women's Frozen Four

Having voted for FF All-Tourney teams in the past, they usually ask for the ballots back so early that it excludes the last 10 minutes in the third period. Sometimes, you have to vote "Winning goaltender" because the game is still tied.

Right. So at the time the ballots were voted, Desbiens had given up a single goal, while Tiley had given up three.

[pokechecker]

Re: 2017 NCAA Women's Frozen Four

so if everyone is done harping about the St. Charles arena and who was the best goalie ...

who ended up winning the freshman of the year award for college hockey, I haven't seen that

[ARM]

Re: 2017 NCAA Women's Frozen Four

who ended up winning the freshman of the year award for college hockey, I haven't seen that

When Cameranesi was so recognized in 2014, it was announced in April. Last year, Potomak was announced as the winner prior to the FF. Maybe it is one of those things that they get to it when they get to it?

[Puckdrop14]

so if everyone is done harping about the St. Charles arena and who was the best goalie ...

who ended up winning the freshman of the year award for college hockey, I haven't seen that

The best goalie was Burt by a long shot. ARD was outplayed in both her games while Tiley had great and not so great moments.I suppose if one of the other 2 were a Senior, it might have made a difference as it seems that tenure weighs in to many decisions.

[bluffrinkrat]

Re: 2017 NCAA Women's Frozen Four

The best goalie was Burt by a long shot. ARD was outplayed in both her games while Tiley had great and not so great moments.I suppose if one of the other 2 were a Senior, it might have made a difference as it seems that tenure weighs in to many decisions.

Tiley was certainly the best goalie in the tournament, but ARD was outplayed in both games? Her 22 save shutout was too easy? Or was it because she almost scored a goal for BC? I think I hear the faint sound of a harp coming closer.

[Sean Pickett]

Re: 2017 NCAA Women's Frozen Four

Tiley was certainly the best goalie in the tournament, but ARD was outplayed in both games? Her 22 save shutout was too easy? Or was it because she almost scored a goal for BC? I think I hear the faint sound of a harp coming closer.

Well, wouldn't a 22 save shutout be easier than a 41 save shutout?

Sean

[shelfit]

Well, wouldn't a 22 save shutout be easier than a 41 save shutout?

Sean

Katie Burt clearly had the best single game performance of the weekend but Tiley obviously had the best body of work for the weekend because she walked out of there with a national championship for her efforts. There's no better argument for all tournament goalie than that! This is not a total goals against competition or anything like that. The only statistic that counts is who won the national championship and it was her!

[D2D]

Re: 2017 NCAA Women's Frozen Four

Katie Burt clearly had the best single game performance of the weekend but Tiley obviously had the best body of work for the weekend because she walked out of there with a national championship for her efforts. There's no better argument for all tournament goalie than that! This is not a total goals against competition or anything like that. The only statistic that counts is who won the national championship and it was her!

I would agree with all the points you made, with one addition to your last comment: She not only helped her team win the national championship, she shut out the other team in the championship game. You simply cannot ask a goaltender to do any more than that.

I totally agree that the Patty Kazmaier Award should have gone to Ann-Renee Desbiens, but my vote for goalie on Frozen Four All-Tournament Team would have gone to Shea Tiley.

[robertearle]

Re: 2017 NCAA Women's Frozen Four

I would agree with all the points you made, with one addition to your last comment: She not only helped her team win the national championship, she shut out the other team in the championship game. You simply cannot ask a goaltender to do any more than that.

I totally agree that the Patty Kazmaier Award should have gone to Ann-Renee Desbiens, but my vote for goalie on Frozen Four All-Tournament Team would have gone to Shea Tiley.

Once more, at the time the votes for the All-Tournament team were cast, who would be the goalie of the winning team was not known, was still very much in doubt. That, to the extent possible, should in the future change. But for the vote on Sunday, whether Tiley or Desbiens would be the goalie of the winning team was not known.

[D2D]

Re: 2017 NCAA Women's Frozen Four

Once more, at the time the votes for the All-Tournament team were cast, who would be the goalie of the winning team was not known, was still very much in doubt. That, to the extent possible, should in the future change. But for the vote on Sunday, whether Tiley or Desbiens would be the goalie of the winning team was not known.

At what point in the championship game is the team selected? If it's too early, i.e. before knowing which players would figure heavily into determining the game's outcome, it can make casting votes in favor of the right players kind of a crapshoot.

[KTDC]

Re: 2017 NCAA Women's Frozen Four

so if everyone is done harping about the St. Charles arena and who was the best goalie ...

who ended up winning the freshman of the year award for college hockey, I haven't seen that

Congrats goes to Princeton goaltender Steph Neatby

http://www.uscho.com/2017/03/23/prin...e-of-year-nod/

[bluffrinkrat]

Re: 2017 NCAA Women's Frozen Four

Well, wouldn't a 22 save shutout be easier than a 41 save shutout?

Sean

Yes it would. My issue was with the statement that Burt "outplayed" ARD in the first game. A 22 save shutout for ARD versus 35 saves for Burt, but who also allowed the winning goal. I suppose it's debatable based on who had the more difficult saves and other factors as well. Tiley certainly had one of the greatest games ever in the NCAA tournament. No more harping from me on the goalie debate.

[robertearle]

Re: 2017 NCAA Women's Frozen Four

At what point in the championship game is the team selected? If it's too early, i.e. before knowing which players would figure heavily into determining the game's outcome, it can make casting votes in favor of the right players kind of a crapshoot.

Earlier on this thread Arlan said "Having voted for FF All-Tourney teams in the past, they usually ask for the ballots back so early that it excludes the last 10 minutes in the third period. Sometimes, you have to vote 'Winning goaltender' because the game is still tied." Somebody over the weekend posted a photo of their ballot for the men's Big Ten Tournament (I thought it was Todd Milewski, but looking at his twitter feed right now, I'm not seeing it) and the instructions at the top of the ballot said much the same thing as Arlan said; "Ballots are due before five minutes remaining in the third period" or some such (even though that game went into double-overtime).

Yes, I think such a process is silly, and should be changed. Yes, I think who gets on an all-tournament team is pretty trivial and unimportant. But within the context, just saying "the goalie of the winning team should have won the award" simply ignores the process, and what the voters did and did not know at the time they had to make their choice. At the time they had to make their choice, ARD was a completely reasonable choice to make.