DEAD THREAD 2017: "This guy here is dead!"..."Cross him off, then!"

[Jimjamesak]

Chester Bennington, lead singer of Linkin Park, suicide at 41.

****.

[state of hockey]

6 kids. What an epic scumbag.

I don't think so. Epically tragic, yes.

These people truly believe everyone is better off without them. It's a powerful disease. They can't see how incredibly wrong they are. They NEED help, but of course don't ask for it.

[snc1]

6 kids. What an epic scumbag.

Go fist yourself. If you dont have a mental illness, or dont know someone who has it then I envy you. To think someones a scumbag because theyd commit suicide leaving behind children is ignorant

[Jimjamesak]

6 kids. What an epic scumbag.

Yeah, not the best of terms there Kep. Mental illness is a very difficult thing to deal with. I'm bipolar myself and went through a period where even just getting out of bed was difficult. Can't even imagine what Chester was going through.

This one hurts a bit. Love Linkin Park and always enjoyed Chester's voice.

[SonofSouthie]

Re: DEAD THREAD 2017: "This guy here is dead!"..."Cross him off, then!"

Yeah, not the best of terms there Kep. Mental illness is a very difficult thing to deal with. I'm bipolar myself and went through a period where even just getting out of bed was difficult. Can't even imagine what Chester was going through.

This one hurts a bit. Love Linkin Park and always enjoyed Chester's voice.

+1
Always enjoyed the vocals of Bennington and Mike Shinoda.

[Kepler]

Re: DEAD THREAD 2017: "This guy here is dead!"..."Cross him off, then!"

Go fist yourself. If you dont have a mental illness, or dont know someone who has it then I envy you. To think someones a scumbag because theyd commit suicide leaving behind children is ignorant

Fist right back at ya. Having seen a lot of the damage that suicide leaves behind, it would be far better if they had gone and died in a fire. Then at least their kids wouldn't have demons all their lives.

The ignorance here is yours, kitten. The people who matter here are the survivors.

Suicide is the ultimate narcissism. If you have no connections at all, fine, enjoy yourself. But if you have people who love you suck it up princess. Your life probably is valueless to you if you choose to end it, but by definition at the point of your own decision you don't matter. But the others in your life don't deserve all the pain you can cause them, so eat sh-t and live. Hang around long enough for them to suss out what you are and make the emotional break with you -- then when you've alienated everyone, fine, but not before.

Suicide is not a tragedy to be romanticized. It's just the drag act of a selfish fool who doesn't care about anyone else because they're so sniff unhappy. F-ck them.

[Kepler]

Re: DEAD THREAD 2017: "This guy here is dead!"..."Cross him off, then!"

Yeah, not the best of terms there Kep. Mental illness is a very difficult thing to deal with. I'm bipolar myself and went through a period where even just getting out of bed was difficult. Can't even imagine what Chester was going through.

I don't care what Chester was going through. I care what those who loved him will now carry. Chester himself gives me the ultimate support: he was so done he wanted to end himself. At that point, you have nullified yourself. You no longer have any responsibility to yourself. But you can't absolve yourself from all responsibility to others.

If you live as an independent agent utterly unconnected with the world like some sort of libertarian fapping ideal yes you have perfect freedom to live or die as you see fit. But once you have kids you lose that freedom and that right. The fact of your life is now part of the existential value of others lives and you have no right to steal that and hurt those people.

Poor, poor Chester and all his pain? No. Just no.

[Kepler]

Re: DEAD THREAD 2017: "This guy here is dead!"..."Cross him off, then!"

I don't think so. Epically tragic, yes.

These people truly believe everyone is better off without them. It's a powerful disease. They can't see how incredibly wrong they are. They NEED help, but of course don't ask for it.

I can see how people would think that way, so let me try an experiment. If he had killed one of his kids instead, would that be "tragic" or just detestable and unpardonable? It would still be his mental illness that drove him to it. So how would he be any more at fault for the latter action than the former? Why do we get all Sorrows of Young Werther over one but not the other?

I have a relative who is bi-polar so I fully understand the tragedy of the disorder. But I also have another relative whose father killed himself in front of her (on Christmas Day, too -- I mean, if you're gonna go then at least go big) when she was 11 and her brother was 13. So I understand that while the mental illness is tragic the act of suicide is just a pure act of selfishness. Jesus Christ, at the very least walk in front of a bus so they can believe it was all just a tragic accident.

Don't kill yourself. It's not romantic, it's just a dick move.

[SJHovey]

Re: DEAD THREAD 2017: "This guy here is dead!"..."Cross him off, then!"

I don't care what Chester was going through. I care what those who loved him will now carry. Chester himself gives me the ultimate support: he was so done he wanted to end himself. At that point, you have nullified yourself. You know longer have any responsibility to yourself. But you can't absolve yourself from all responsibility to others.

If you live as an independent agent utterly unconnected with the world like some sort of libertarian fapping ideal yes you have perfect freedom to live or die as you see fit. But once you have kids you lose that freedom and that right. The fact of your life is now part of the existential value of others lives and you have no right to steal that and hurt those people.

Poor, poor Chester and all his pain? No. Just no.

All of this. This post is probably one of the earliest lessons my father taught me.

My little league baseball coach, when I was six, was literally the community idol. He was a star high school athlete. He went on to pitch briefly in the minor leagues for the Cincinnati Reds before returning home. Married his high school sweetheart, largely regarded as one of the prettiest girls anyone knew. Two great kids and ultimately became the superintendent of the local school district.

One day he just shot himself in the head.

I was extremely torn up over it. This was a guy who had everything, was everyone's hero, and he liked me. After venting for about 10 minutes to my dad about what sort of unseen horrors Tim must have been suffering from, and if only we could have helped him, my dad just turned to me and said, "Tim just did the most selfish thing a human being can do." Then he wouldn't talk about it anymore.

[Handyman]

Re: DEAD THREAD 2017: "This guy here is dead!"..."Cross him off, then!"

Fist right back at ya. Having seen a lot of the damage that suicide leaves behind, it would be far better if they had gone and died in a fire. Then at least their kids wouldn't have demons all their lives.

The ignorance here is yours, kitten. The people who matter here are the survivors.

Suicide is the ultimate narcissism. If you have no connections at all, fine, enjoy yourself. But if you have people who love you suck it up princess. Your life probably is valueless to you if you choose to end it, but by definition at the point of your own decision you don't matter. But the others in your life don't deserve all the pain you can cause them, so eat sh-t and live. Hang around long enough for them to suss out what you are and make the emotional break with you -- then when you've alienated everyone, fine, but not before.

Suicide is not a tragedy to be romanticized. It's just the drag act of a selfish fool who doesn't care about anyone else because they're so sniff unhappy. F-ck them.

I have seen the fallout too...I also have been suicidal and know people with mental illness. You could not be more wrong...

Suicide isnt narcissism...that is a horrid thing to say and stinks of the type of mental illness discrimination that is prevalent.

[Handyman]

Re: DEAD THREAD 2017: "This guy here is dead!"..."Cross him off, then!"

All of this. This post is probably one of the earliest lessons my father taught me.

My little league baseball coach, when I was six, was literally the community idol. He was a star high school athlete. He went on to pitch briefly in the minor leagues for the Cincinnati Reds before returning home. Married his high school sweetheart, largely regarded as one of the prettiest girls anyone knew. Two great kids and ultimately became the superintendent of the local school district.

One day he just shot himself in the head.

I was extremely torn up over it. This was a guy who had everything, was everyone's hero, and he liked me. After venting for about 10 minutes to my dad about what sort of unseen horrors Tim must have been suffering from, and if only we could have helped him, my dad just turned to me and said, "Tim just did the most selfish thing a human being can do." Then he wouldn't talk about it anymore.

No disrespect to your father...but that is a terrible thing to say and believe. You and your father have zero understanding of how the mind works or what causes suicide. He didnt just up and shoot himself one day, people dont kill themselves on a whim. Something was wrong in his brain...

And this is where someone will say "then go seek help". It doesnt always work. Not to mention the stigma you get when people find out you are medicated or in therapy. Then there is the problem of getting the right help, sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

The attitude you and Kepler have reminds me of the people who chastise alcoholics because they choose to be drunks.

[Kepler]

Re: DEAD THREAD 2017: "This guy here is dead!"..."Cross him off, then!"

No disrespect to your father...but that is a terrible thing to say and believe. You and your father have zero understanding of how the mind works or what causes suicide. He didnt just up and shoot himself one day, people dont kill themselves on a whim. Something was wrong in his brain...

And this is where someone will say "then go seek help". It doesnt always work. Not to mention the stigma you get when people find out you are medicated or in therapy. Then there is the problem of getting the right help, sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

The attitude you and Kepler have reminds me of the people who chastise alcoholics because they choose to be drunks.

You are missing the point; we are not faulting people for being ill. I have the greatest sympathy for those will mental illness, particularly depression and anxiety since I'm on medication for them and they gallop through one side of my family. The distinction between mental and physical illness is obsolete -- just as one would not blame someone for a physical birth defect we should not blame them for a genetic biochemical imbalance in the brain.

For me, that sympathy ends with the act of suicide, just as it would for many of you if it were patricide, fratricide, or fillicide (sp?). We have the right to evaluate the action and responsibility, and the cultural painting of suicide as some dewy-eyed romantic tragedy sickens me. Those who forgive suicide are far more likely to be ignorant of its real world effects and merely see it as some artistic tour de force. But would they see a murder the same way, or a rape? Unless you can honestly say you would judge any action no matter how awful by that same standard of utter disconnection of responsibility, then you are being emotional and not rational when you excuse the horrific consequences of suicide on innocent and often very young people.

(BTW, this was Goethe's whole point: he had Werther botch the job and crawl around in pathetic agony for hours. And his audience also missed the point and called it some sort of beatific tragedy.)

[Handyman]

Re: DEAD THREAD 2017: "This guy here is dead!"..."Cross him off, then!"

Not one person in here is romanticizing it...you on the other hand are demonizing someone you dont even have the qualifications to judge.

Some Background

However, his most shocking revelation came in 2008 – when he revealed to Kerrang magazine a “friend a few years older than him” began molesting him around the age of seven.

He revealed: “It escalated from a touchy, curious, ‘what does this thing do’ into full-on, crazy violations.

“I was getting beaten up and being forced to do things I didn’t want to do. It destroyed my self-confidence.”

The star then suffered in silence for a staggering SIX years – for fear of what would happen if he said anything.

“I didn’t want people to think I was gay or that I was lying,” he confessed. “It was a horrible experience.”

Chester’s silence was made worse as his parents divorced at the age of eleven – and he was often left alone after being left in the custody of his father, who would often be forced to work long hours as a police detective.

Now do I think suicide is an answer...hell no. But to judge anyone in that way, to act like you have clue one what is going on in the mind of someone or what they have had to deal with in their life is way more narcissistic than suicide is.

(I am done on this subject you guys can return to ****ing on his grave)

[Kepler]

Re: DEAD THREAD 2017: "This guy here is dead!"..."Cross him off, then!"

Not one person in here is romanticizing it...

You're exempting it from moral evaluation and you haven't answered my question. What if the voices in his head had made him rape and murder a young girl (like Glenn Beck in 1990 (allegedly))? Unless you would feel exactly the same way and think "oh, that poor man," then you are indeed romanticizing it, just as the culture as a whole does because of an endless stream of literary of cinematic models.

And I'd happily pis-s on his grave for what he's done to his kids, yeah, no issue there.

[Jimjamesak]

Re: DEAD THREAD 2017: "This guy here is dead!"..."Cross him off, then!"

JFC Kep get your head out of the Philosophy 200 books and come back to the real world. Yes there is pain being inflicted on the survivors, the other members of the band, his friends, his family especially, but to basically **** on his grave and have this scornful attitude? That's low. You've no clue how hard it can be to deal with mental illness.