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  • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Originally posted by Felger View Post
    When it comes to college hockey players today, I would rather bring them in a year too early rather than a year too late.
    Originally posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
    After the fiascos with LaLeggia and Vecchione, the default position should be earlier not later. UNH is not in any position to defer any kid with a modicum of talent.
    100% agree with both of you gentlemen. Mistakes made on this issue have cost the program dearly in recent seasons. And if you don't learn from your mistakes, you are only going to be bound to repeat them.

    Originally posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
    As for the speculation (Chuck's) that Umile might leave a year early, just don't see it. He's always been an ultra-competitive guy so, unless his DNA has been altered somehow, I think his pride would not allow him to quit.
    Greg, I would ordinarily agree with you on this point. But I'm not sure it's altering his DNA, as opposed to wearing him down/out bit by bit. From observing others, and sprinkling in a bit of personal experience - and you are correct, this IS speculation tempered by some educated guesswork - if Umile looks around, this is a whole new world to him. This is going to be his second straight losing season where his team has fallen off a competitive cliff down the stretch. His team can't even win home ice in a postseason round that didn't even exist until the last few seasons. His coaching pals and peers from back in the day have either passed (Serino, Walshy), retired (Parker, Cahoon) or just plain moved on (McCloskey, Lassonde, Tortorella), while the split with Borek was by several accounts a difficult one. Less than two years ago, his direct boss managed to talk him off his "lifetime" contract. He's since had to choose between two young former players on which would succeed him, and lord knows how many others out there who probably had interest but whom he had to rebuff or dissuade at some point. Former players are now anxious (sometimes impatient, even demanding) alums who want to see the return of UNH's past glories. Yesterday.

    That's all pretty exhausting, emotional stuff. Times, they are a changin' ... the comfort zone has shifted, and results on the ice have are not reflecting any progress from year to year. A month plus ago, I'm pretty sure Coach thought he had this all under control ... but it's been a LONG and frustrating stretch since then, and the last 7 periods' worth seems to have pushed him to (or past?) his limit for tolerance. And if you're an ultra-competitive person, and you're looking out there and seeing pretty much your six best players putting out max effort, while everyone else is either incapable, unwilling, or unavailable to match that effort ... well, that's going to eat you alive, and you are likely to at least start asking yourself, "Why am I persisting with this at this stage of my life?"

    * Is it for the money? God, I hope not. He can take a buyout for next season, state pension kicks in, etc.
    * Is it for the thrill of the job? Not seeing that, what with half-empty home games, the path to Boston blocked by the likes of York, Quinn, Bazin and Leaman for the foreseeable future, and no sniff of the NCAA's on the horizon.
    * Is it the fun of working with the kids? Maybe ... but he's down to his final year, his guys (Borek's boys) have let him down badly on and off the ice - the latter when they got impatient and left to play elsewhere - basically because UNH wasn't the old UNH any more, and Umile didn't realize he lacked the cache to demand that they wait their turn.
    * Is it for a chance to get to "the next round number"? Again, I hope not. What would that do to change anything? He's not gonna catch Parker or York ... he's got Walshy "beat", except for the trophies that really mean something. He's surpassed Charlie as the all-time most wins, trophies, FF appearances, Finals, etc. as a UNH head coach. Even if Souza turns out to be the greatest hire since Umile himself, he's not going to even get close to Umile's total wins at a rate of 24 per season until Umile is approaching his mid 90's.
    * Is it pride? Well, as they say, "Pride goeth before the fall". Or as 'watcher has stated ... "Apres moi, le deluge".

    If I was Coach Umile, and I knew I wasn't going to win the NC in my final season as UNH HC ... I would want my hand-picked successor to have the best chance possible to accomplish what I was never able to do, and I would want to live long enough to see him succeed at that.

    Sticking around for one more year of torture like these last two, and in the process delaying Coach Souza's chances to get the program to that last big step Umile couldn't quite manage, accomplishes precisely nothing. For that matter, he might as well stick around until he's 80 in hopes he can get himself to the next next round number, because at the current rate of decline, it may take him that long to get there.

    I'm not pretending to know the man OR know his mind. But short of an early March miracle, I know I'd be done.
    Last edited by Chuck Murray; 02-27-2017, 09:29 PM.
    Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
    Montreal Expos Forever ...

    Comment


    • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

      Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
      100% agree with both of you gentlemen. Mistakes made on this issue have cost the program dearly in recent seasons. And if you don't learn from your mistakes, you are only going to be bound to repeat them.



      Greg, I would ordinarily agree with you on this point. But I'm not sure it's altering his DNA, as opposed to wearing him down/out bit by bit. From observing others, and sprinkling in a bit of personal experience - and you are correct, this IS speculation tempered by some educated guesswork - if Umile looks around, this is a whole new world to him. This is going to be his second straight losing season where his team has fallen off a competitive cliff down the stretch. His team can't even win home ice in a postseason round that didn't even exist until the last few seasons. His coaching pals and peers from back in the day have either passed (Serino, Walshy), retired (Parker, Cahoon) or just plain moved on (McCloskey, Lassonde, Tortorella), while the split with Borek was by several accounts a difficult one. Less than two years ago, his direct boss managed to talk him off his "lifetime" contract. He's since had to choose between two young former players on which would succeed him, and lord knows how many others out there who probably had interest but whom he had to rebuff or dissuade at some point. Former players are now anxious (sometimes impatient, even demanding) alums who want to see the return of UNH's past glories. Yesterday.

      That's all pretty exhausting, emotional stuff. Times, they are a changin' ... the comfort zone has shifted, and results on the ice have are not reflecting any progress from year to year. A month plus ago, I'm pretty sure Coach thought he had this all under control ... but it's been a LONG and frustrating stretch since then, and the last 7 periods' worth seems to have pushed him to (or past?) his limit for tolerance. And if you're an ultra-competitive person, and you're looking out there and seeing pretty much your six best players putting out max effort, while everyone else is either incapable, unwilling, or unavailable to match that effort ... well, that's going to eat you alive, and you are likely to at least start asking yourself, "Why am I persisting with this at this stage of my life?"

      * Is it for the money? God, I hope not. He can take a buyout for next season, state pension kicks in, etc.
      * Is it for the thrill of the job? Not seeing that, what with half-empty home games, the path to Boston blocked by the likes of York, Quinn, Bazin and Leaman for the foreseeable future, and no sniff of the NCAA's on the horizon.
      * Is it the fun of working with the kids? Maybe ... but he's down to his final year, his guys (Borek's boys) have let him down badly on and off the ice - the latter when they got impatient and left to play elsewhere - basically because UNH wasn't the old UNH any more, and Umile didn't realize he lacked the cache to demand that they wait their turn.
      * Is it for a chance to get to "the next round number"? Again, I hope not. What would that do to change anything? He's not gonna catch Parker or York ... he's got Walshy "beat", except for the trophies that really mean something. He's surpassed Charlie as the all-time most wins, trophies, FF appearances, Finals, etc. as a UNH head coach. Even if Souza turns out to be the greatest hire since Umile himself, he's not going to even get close to Umile's total wins at a rate of 24 per season until Umile is approaching his mid 90's.
      * Is it pride? Well, as they say, "Pride goeth before the fall". Or as 'watcher has stated ... "Apres moi, le deluge".

      If I was Coach Umile, and I knew I wasn't going to win the NC in my final season as UNH HC ... I would want my hand-picked successor to have the best chance possible to accomplish what I was never able to do, and I would want to live long enough to see him succeed at that.

      Sticking around for one more year of torture like these last two, and in the process delaying Coach Souza's chances to get the program to that last big step Umile couldn't quite manage, accomplishes precisely nothing. For that matter, he might as well stick around until he's 80 in hopes he can get himself to the next next round number, because at the current rate of decline, it may take him that long to get there.

      I'm not pretending to know the man OR know his mind. But short of an early March miracle, I know I'd be done.

      The UNH situation reminds me of the Bruins current situation. They had Claude Julien for a long run who was a fantastic Stanley Cup winning coach but it was just time for a change and a fresh look. Nothing against Claude - but sometimes coaches run their course and a change is needed. Doesnt take away from Juliens ability to coach or his legacy - it was just time for a shake up.

      Comment


      • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

        Originally posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
        I think his pride would not allow him to quit.
        His pride certainly hasn't had any problem allowing him to s--u--c--k.
        I went home with a waitress the way I always do
        How was I to know she was with the russians, too?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
          And one final return to recruiting, as Dan mentioned then, Scott Morrow's son is a top 8th grader (huh?).
          While browsing the net for hockey news tonight, I noticed that Eric Flinton has remained in NH and is now coaching two young sons with the NH Avalanche. Cooper Flinton is an '03 and on track to be a very good young prospect.

          USHR lists him as an 'A' player at last fall's East Coast Classic and describes him as a, "Power forward type (with) good size and good skill. Likes to take the puck to the net off the wall and make plays."

          A younger son, Shea, is an '06...

          Eric Flinton is rarely mentioned among the better forwards during the early Umile years, but scored 132 career points and led the team with 45 during a 94-95 season highlighted by games at JFK Arena and HE shootouts!

          Coincidentally, during Flinton's freshman season at UNH, the team's leading goal scorer was Scott Morrow (29).
          Last edited by Dan; 03-02-2017, 09:53 PM.
          Live Free or Die!!
          Miami University '03

          Comment


          • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

            Originally posted by Dan View Post
            While browsing the net for hockey news tonight, I noticed that Eric Flinton has remained in NH and is now coaching two young sons with the NH Avalanche. Cooper Flinton is an '03 and on track to be a very good young prospect.

            USHR lists him as an 'A' player at last fall's East Coast Classic and describes him as a, "Power forward type (with) good size and good skill. Likes to take the puck to the net off the wall and make plays."

            A younger son, Shea, is an '06...

            Eric Flinton is rarely mentioned among the better forwards during the early Umile years, but scored 132 career points and led the team with 45 during a 94-95 season highlighted by games at JFK Arena and HE shootouts!

            Coincidentally, during Flinton's freshman season at UNH, the team's leading goal scorer was Scott Morrow (29).
            Flinton was a terrific four year player (and senior captain I think?), wouldn't mind seeing his sons playing at the arena Dad was only there to watch being built.
            Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
            Montreal Expos Forever ...

            Comment


            • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

              Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
              Flinton was a terrific four year player (and senior captain I think?), wouldn't mind seeing his sons playing at the arena Dad was only there to watch being built
              As I (and other longtime Wildcat fans) have noted over the past decade(s), should either/both of E. Flinton's sons one day matriculate in Durham they'd be the first son(s) of a former player to *ever* suit up for the 'Cats. We've had several brother combos (Darren/Jeff Haydar; J/T/BvR; soon to be Tyler/Charlie Kelleher, etc.), yet never a 2nd generation Wildcat in the 90+ year history of the Program. It's an amazing factoid that I've never fully understood; surely (OK, don't call me Shirley :-) there had to have been a kid with the right combination of DNA, desire and (family alma mater) demand to wear the Blue & White as Dad did? Yet I can barely recall examples of such kids even suiting up for rival DivI schools. IIRC Bruce Crowder's son played at Northeastern when his Dad coached there, but beyond that - ?? Are there other examples of sons of former 'Cat skaters playing DivI hockey that I've overlooked (or more likely forgotten)? Along with UNH's puzzling reluctance to admit European-born players (being careful with my words here for the sake of guys like Savo Mitrovic, etc.) this familial gap in the looong history of UNH Hockey has always been a continuing mystery to me. So - Cooper Flinton, come on down and be the first!

              Comment


              • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

                Bump to move Asian spam off first page.

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                • Bump again
                  RIT Tigers

                  Got one foot in the crease

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                  • Originally posted by jeteye1717 View Post
                    As I (and other longtime Wildcat fans) have noted over the past decade(s), should either/both of E. Flinton's sons one day matriculate in Durham they'd be the first son(s) of a former player to *ever* suit up for the 'Cats. We've had several brother combos (Darren/Jeff Haydar; J/T/BvR; soon to be Tyler/Charlie Kelleher, etc.), yet never a 2nd generation Wildcat in the 90+ year history of the Program. It's an amazing factoid that I've never fully understood; surely (OK, don't call me Shirley :-) there had to have been a kid with the right combination of DNA, desire and (family alma mater) demand to wear the Blue & White as Dad did? Yet I can barely recall examples of such kids even suiting up for rival DivI schools. IIRC Bruce Crowder's son played at Northeastern when his Dad coached there, but beyond that - ?? Are there other examples of sons of former 'Cat skaters playing DivI hockey that I've overlooked (or more likely forgotten)? Along with UNH's puzzling reluctance to admit European-born players (being careful with my words here for the sake of guys like Savo Mitrovic, etc.) this familial gap in the looong history of UNH Hockey has always been a continuing mystery to me. So - Cooper Flinton, come on down and be the first!
                    Brickley
                    Whenever I think of the past, it brings back so many memories. - Stephen Wright

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Aerman View Post
                      Brickley
                      UVMs Connor Brickley is second cousins to Andy and Quintin Brickley. His father, Craig, played college hockey at Penn...
                      Live Free or Die!!
                      Miami University '03

                      Comment


                      • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

                        David Sheen's son Colin went to BU
                        Bruce Gillies' son went to Providence
                        Kevin Thomson's son Matt is going to NU this year
                        Ralph Cox's son went to PC
                        Mike Burkhart's son went to Dartmouth
                        Ross Yantzi's son went to Western Mich
                        ------------
                        in addition to the Flintons and Morrow's son, Tim Hanley's son Nate is a 02 in Connecticut, a potential DI player

                        http://www.sbncollegehockey.com/coll...itals-penguins

                        5. Nate Hanley, #12 Mid-Fairfield, Shoots Right - He played very well in Saturday’s game at Walter Brown Arena. He’s a good skater with an above average first step. He passed the puck right on the tape, moved it quickly and precisely and kept plays going. His skill set might not be quite as elite as some, but he should be a solid Division I prospect.
                        Last edited by NCAA watcher; 03-10-2017, 09:57 AM.
                        The Souza record:
                        15-16 10th place
                        16-17 10th place
                        17-18 11th place
                        18-19 8th place
                        19-20 9th place
                        20-21 10th place
                        21-22 9th place
                        22-23 10th place

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Dan View Post
                          UVMs Connor Brickley is second cousins to Andy and Quintin Brickley. His father, Craig, played college hockey at Penn...
                          Oops ... thanks for correction.
                          Whenever I think of the past, it brings back so many memories. - Stephen Wright

                          Comment


                          • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

                            "Blue Chip Defenseman Max Gildon Commits to UNH"
                            Includes interview and video highlights
                            The UNH Men's Hockey Blog

                            Comment


                            • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

                              Originally posted by C-H-C View Post
                              "Blue Chip Defenseman Max Gildon Commits to UNH"
                              Includes interview and video highlights
                              C-H-C,

                              Based on the following statements within the article:

                              "Mike Lowry ("C-H-C"): Congratulations on your commitment to play for the University of New Hampshire. What are the main reasons you chose UNH?

                              Max Gildon: The coaches, the campus and the people around the program just sold me on UNH.

                              Lowry: A year ago, you verbally committed to the University of Wisconsin. What factors entered into your decision to reopen your college search?

                              Gildon: The feeling I got after the coaching change was suspicious and I wanted somewhere that has a great history of hockey like UNH does. I also wanted to go to a smaller college."


                              Do you think Gildon would be a risk to decommit from UNH if Umile stepped down and there were some coaching changes at UNH?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by New Hampshire 'Cats Fan View Post
                                C-H-C,

                                Based on the following statements within the article:

                                "Mike Lowry ("C-H-C"): Congratulations on your commitment to play for the University of New Hampshire. What are the main reasons you chose UNH?

                                Max Gildon: The coaches, the campus and the people around the program just sold me on UNH.

                                Lowry: A year ago, you verbally committed to the University of Wisconsin. What factors entered into your decision to reopen your college search?

                                Gildon: The feeling I got after the coaching change was suspicious and I wanted somewhere that has a great history of hockey like UNH does. I also wanted to go to a smaller college."


                                Do you think Gildon would be a risk to decommit from UNH if Umile stepped down and there were some coaching changes at UNH?
                                I believe Gildon was speaking about the Wisconsin coaching change. I am positive Gildon is aware that Umile won't be the one coaching for a majority of his time at UNH.

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