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  • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Poor BU in the mix for championships every year...

    They've won three HE championships, made three NCAA tournaments and lost a national title on a fluke goal against in four seasons of David Quinn. I think their recruiting strategy is paying off just fine. If you think you're winning NCAA titles every season in a one-game playoff setting you're in the wrong sport. Recruiting lots of talent gives you a chance every year which is all you can ask...

    Lowell hasn't had any MORE success and the idea that they don't recruit high-end talent is a myth. They just find it in different places. Wall, Smith, Gamberdella, Zink, Kapla and Goranson, for example, are studs anyone would want. Young kids like Kerner and Meehan are big time recruits...

    Anytime someone bemoans UNH's luck of high-end talent someone else argues about early departures. It has nothing to do with that. TK or JVR - it doesn't matter. They're both high-end. UNH needs more kids who can really play whether it's Lowell's method or BU's. It should not be assumed that when calls are out for 'elite' talent it means high draft picks and early departures. It just means players with serious ability. They haven't had enough on the roster and they don't have enough in the pipeline....
    Last edited by Dan; 09-30-2017, 09:55 PM.
    Live Free or Die!!
    Miami University '03

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    • Originally posted by C-H-C View Post
      From an upcoming article on the 2017-18 UNH incoming freshman class:

      "Neutral Zone, a top amateur hockey scouting service, ranked the 2017-18 UNH recruiting class as the 8th highest in all of Division I hockey utilizing their measurement of overall quality of recruits. Neutral Zone rated the UNH frosh (3 defensemen, 1 goalie, 3 forwards) an average score of 3.93 Stars on a 5-Star scale - a higher overall quality score than all Hockey East programs except Boston University (4.22) and Boston College (4.05). Two UNH freshmen were awarded ratings of 4 stars or above - Max Gildon (4.75 Stars) and Charlie Kelleher (4.25 Stars). On their weighted, algorithm point system, Neutral Zone rated UNH as the 14th best recruiting class in Division I."

      Here's some of the data on the 2017-18 incoming classes from Neutral Zone as of September 8, 2017:

      "Highest Overall Quality" as measured by average star rating

      #1 Michigan (6 commits) - 4.33 star average (on 5-point scale)
      #2 Minnesota (7) - 4.29
      #3 North Dakota (8) - 4.25
      #4 BU (9) - 4.22
      #5 Wisconsin (7) - 4.11
      #6 BC (5) - 4.05
      #7 Denver (9) - 4.03
      #8 UNH (7) - 3.93
      #9 Penn State (8) - 3.91
      #10 Providence (8) - 3.91
      #11 Minnesota State (9) - 3.89
      #12 UConn (5) - 3.85
      #13 Quinnipiac (8) - 3.84
      #14 Miami (7) - 3.82
      #15 UMass Amherst (13) - 3.81
      #16 Notre Dame (6) - 3.79
      #17 Union (9) - 3.78
      #18 Clarkson (8) - 3.78
      #19 Vermont (12) - 3.77
      #20 Cornell (10) - 3.75

      Other Hockey East Schools:
      #29 Northeastern (9) - 3.69
      #33 Merrimack (8) - 3.62
      #36 Maine (10) - 3.60
      #50 UMass Lowell (6) - 3.50

      "Total Points" (based on weighted algorithm)

      #1 North Dakota (8 commits) - 1120
      #2 BU (9) - 1105
      #3 UMass Amherst (13) - 1081
      #4 Minnesota (7) - 1000
      #5 Denver (9) - 884
      #6 Michigan (6) - 861
      #7 Vermont (12) - 813
      #8 Minnesota State (9) - 789
      #9 Penn State (8) - 689
      #10 Wisconsin (7) - 675
      #11 Providence (8) - 657
      #12 Colorado College (13) - 653
      #13 St Lawrence (10) - 647
      #14 UNH (7) - 643
      #15 Cornell (10) - 641
      #16 Michigan State (9) - 631
      #17 Union (9) - 617
      #18 Northeastern (9) - 605
      #19 Quinnipiac (8) - 603
      #20 Clarkson (8) - 598

      Other Hockey East Schools:
      #30 Maine (10) - 494
      #31 BC (10) - 482
      #36 Merrimack (8) - 466
      #43 UConn (5) - 423
      #52 UMass Lowell (6) - 305

      Here's a link to the list of Neutral Zone Scouts
      The large majority of them are former college and/or pro players, coaches, and/or team scouts.
      Incidently, former UNH All-American Sean Collins is an NZ Head Scout in the USA. There are many NZ scouts who cover Canada.
      ...
      The UNH Men's Hockey Blog

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      • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

        So far, Souza and Stewart have gotten commitments from two 4-Star rated recruits for the 2018-19 season - Angus Crookshank (forward) and Corson Green (defenseman).
        The UNH Men's Hockey Blog

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        • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

          Wow! Seventh!! Woo hoo!!!

          Comment


          • Can we stop pretending that the rankings of ONE website (a website that ranks EVERY DI player at least a 3 out of 5 in a coordinated effort to make money off of those players' families and coaches) means UNH is killing it? Also, what is UNH's average NZ ranking when you remove Gildon (who fell in their laps as an extremely late decommitment) and Kelleher (who was recruited by Borek)?? Never mind, I can do the math - 3.70, well outside of the top-20...

            Crookshank and Green are 4-stars? According to BHall's post earlier a NZ 4-star would be outside of the top-45 recruits, in 2017, and could well be outside the top-150/200 (he lost count). Context matters. Regardless, this would mean the pipeline is full of 2 4-stars, Wazny and a bunch of guys who are certainly not 4-stars. Sounds awesome.

            I won't be paying for a NZ account, but I wonder how UNH's two good recruits compares to the rest of HE. By every other account, nearly all of the HE schools are doing better than 2 at this point...

            I'm excited about Crookshank, but he's scored 12 goals and 25 points in 42 career BCHL games. Three of those goals came in one game. His production indicates he has a lot of growth ahead of him if his being UNH's best offensive prospect (by far) is to be anything to write home about or 'make Jordan Sandhu look like a nobody'. But that's based on actual production, so grain of salt. And who is he going to pass too by the time he's ready to lead an O in Durham??

            We were supposed to be psyched about Green because a few services guaranteed he was a future pro - then he went undrafted. He is a second-pair ceiling at the college level. His +/- rating was the worst on his team last season. He was traded straight up for 20 games of Jason O'Neill (another 'elite' young UNH recruit we were told so much about). And if we're throwing around random rankings, Heisenberg has him as his 66th best recruit out of the USHL alone, for 2018...

            Crookshank is solid to very good, Green is raw to above average - they have their own question marks and they're certainly not enough. Successful recruiting is about building entire rosters not picking up a 4-star or two. UNH has had plenty of players, over the last few seasons, better than we can fairly expect these two to be and it hasn't been nearly enough...

            they don't have enough in the pipeline
            ...
            Last edited by Dan; 10-01-2017, 01:24 AM.
            Live Free or Die!!
            Miami University '03

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            • Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
              Chris Dilks' review of the USA U17 team. https://www.sbncollegehockey.com/col...the-ntdp-u17s?

              The one name that will be interesting is:
              If the strategy to pounce on decommits to salvage recruiting classes remains, then Cole Caulfield is another name to watch. He even plays on a line with Jack Hughes and has a brother (Brock) who also decommited from OSU, playing in Green Bay with Verrier. Two diminutive, yet electric forwards. Cole in particular...

              Chance to add two top forwards, one elite, in a single blow. Could only help in the chase for the younger Gildon and Legacy Hughes...
              Live Free or Die!!
              Miami University '03

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              • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

                Imagine how much worse off UNH would have been over the last decade of creeping mediocrity without the van Riemsdyk (and even the Kelleher) legacy approach.

                Then again, without the Kariya legacy, even Walshy might not have managed to cheat his way to the top (twice).
                Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                Montreal Expos Forever ...

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                • Originally posted by Dan View Post
                  "The one name..."

                  A sad way to express your thoughts when, arguably, the top USNTDP prospect (and only other uncommitted player) is the son of a former UNH women's hockey star. But you're probably right.

                  Also Sad - Top 30 Incoming Freshmen...
                  #3, Quinn Hughes - Also a son of Ellen Weinberg
                  #11, Ben Mirageas - Grew up in UNH footprint
                  #19, Max Gildon - Thank you Bucky!
                  #23, Riley Walsh - NH Native
                  #30, Jake Ryczek - UNH decommit
                  Well, if Ellen Weinberg’s son actually plays for UNH, we can finally scratch one oddity in UNH recruiting. Hughes would be the first son of a former player to play at UNH.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Dan View Post
                    If the strategy to pounce on decommits to salvage recruiting classes remains, then Cole Caulfield is another name to watch. He even plays on a line with Jack Hughes and has a brother (Brock) who also decommited from OSU, playing in Green Bay with Verrier. Two diminutive, yet electric forwards. Cole in particular...

                    Chance to add two top forwards, one elite, in a single blow. Could only help in the chase for the younger Gildon and Legacy Hughes...
                    Cox reporting on twitter it's a done deal these two are heading to Wisconsin. The silver-lining for UNH's recruiting strategy being that Bucky will likely have to pull scholarship offers to other recruits to make it work (a la Gildon). I sure wish UNH recruiting was doing a lot better, but I'm glad they're not crossing these unethical lines under the guise of, 'this is recruiting' or 'verbals are just verbals'...
                    Live Free or Die!!
                    Miami University '03

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                    • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

                      Originally posted by Dan View Post
                      Cox reporting on twitter it's a done deal these two are heading to Wisconsin. The silver-lining for UNH's recruiting strategy being that Bucky will likely have to pull scholarship offers to other recruits to make it work (a la Gildon). I sure wish UNH recruiting was doing a lot better, but I'm glad they're not crossing these unethical lines under the guise of, 'this is recruiting' or 'verbals are just verbals'...
                      To my unofficial count Wisconsin has a ridiculous 29 recruits from 2018-2020. Insane.

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                      • Originally posted by Lemonade View Post
                        To my unofficial count Wisconsin has a ridiculous 29 recruits from 2018-2020. Insane.
                        That's a lot of cheese (had to)!!! 😂
                        Here we go 'Cats!!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Lemonade View Post
                          To my unofficial count Wisconsin has a ridiculous 29 recruits from 2018-2020. Insane.
                          They, apparently, picked up a third commit today, too. What they're doing is verbaling as many young prospects as they can and, in essence, giving themselves exclusive communication rights while they complete evaluations and keep their options open. Then when the time comes they cut loose the kids that don't make the 'grade' or for whom upgrades have been unearthed (Gildon). Those recruits are then left scrambling to find any school that still has scholarship money remaining or is willing to cut loose one of their own commitments...

                          It's standard operating procedure for a number of coaches across many sports and the number one reason why no one should have any ill will towards kids changing their own minds on commitments (Commesso included)...
                          Live Free or Die!!
                          Miami University '03

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                          • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

                            Originally posted by Lemonade View Post
                            To my unofficial count Wisconsin has a ridiculous 29 recruits from 2018-2020. Insane.
                            Somewhere out there in Nowheresville, Steve "Count" Cedorchuk nods affirmatively, a forgotten man scorned only for the crime of being a full generation ahead of his time, as his then-novel approach to recruiting now drifts quietly, almost unnoticed, into the mainstream ...
                            Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                            Montreal Expos Forever ...

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                            • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

                              Originally posted by Dan View Post
                              They, apparently, picked up a third commit today, too. What they're doing is verbaling as many young prospects as they can and, in essence, giving themselves exclusive communication rights while they complete evaluations and keep their options open. Then when the time comes they cut loose the kids that don't make the 'grade' or for whom upgrades have been unearthed (Gildon). Those recruits are then left scrambling to find any school that still has scholarship money remaining or is willing to cut loose one of their own commitments...

                              It's standard operating procedure for a number of coaches across many sports and the number one reason why no one should have any ill will towards kids changing their own minds on commitments (Commesso included)...
                              I totally get maybe getting a few extra verbal commits based on the facts you mentioned. I put zero blame on the kids that decommit - its a broken system and the kids are doing whats best for themselves and coaches leave, concentration of study may change, etc. - no harm there. However, Wisconsin seems to be grossly over recruiting with 30 commits in the 2018-2020 classes alone.

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                              • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

                                Kids are going in with their eyes open, convinced that they will survive the purges. The kids want to play for a coach that will demand excellence and a dog-eat-dog environment. North Dakota has been doing the same, though hardly to the magnitude of Wisconsin, and cutting kids before they arrive. Yet, because they win, players want to play for them, despite the risks.

                                And that ulitmately is the "risk" point. Without any binding obligations, kids are taking risks, and the teams have no risk, so they can give out promises like skittles. Force teams to sign something, and those offers will shrink.

                                And the emphasis of midget hockey and elite camps create the culture in players at age 15 and 16 that they are competing not just in games, but to be recognized as an elite prospect. Committing early validates that mentality for them. Back in the good old days, there was less of a national pecking order, so players didn't need that validation. But once the hockey industry kicked in, emphasizing off season training (lest you lose a fraction of your lifting ability, or your Vo2 stamina) the whole field becomes a competition, with advisors stoking that drive. Hence, getting recognized by a top program by getting an offer, is validation that you are "winning" the off season.
                                Last edited by NCAA watcher; 10-12-2017, 08:28 AM.
                                The Souza record:
                                15-16 10th place
                                16-17 10th place
                                17-18 11th place
                                18-19 8th place
                                19-20 9th place
                                20-21 10th place
                                21-22 9th place
                                22-23 10th place

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