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Thread: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

  1. #501
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Chris Dilks' review of the USA U17 team. https://www.sbncollegehockey.com/col...the-ntdp-u17s?

    The one name that will be interesting is:

    Michael Gildon(Uncommitted)-Gildon was effective here using his speed and aggressiveness. He’s not going to make a lot of skilled offensive plays, but has potential to be one of the better wingers on the team if he continues doing dirty work in tough areas.
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  2. #502
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonade View Post
    Does anyone know what the Neutral Zone star rating equates to? Is a 3.0 a fringe player and 5.0 a star? Any clue on their rating system?
    NZ HISTORICAL STAR RATING BREAKDOWN
    Rating D1% D3% CIS/Other%
    5.0 100 0 0
    4.75 100 0 0
    4.5 100 0 0
    4.25 100 0 0
    4.0 98.8 0 1.2
    3.75 97.7 0 2.3
    3.5 95.5 0.4 4.1
    3.25 13.3 74.4 12.3
    3.0 4.5 85.6 9.9
    2.75 0 96.7 3.3
    2.5 0 97.4 2.6
    2.25 0 91.2 8.8
    2.0 0 67.8 22.2

  3. #503
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhall44 View Post
    NZ HISTORICAL STAR RATING BREAKDOWN
    Rating D1% D3% CIS/Other%
    5.0 100 0 0
    4.75 100 0 0
    4.5 100 0 0
    4.25 100 0 0
    4.0 98.8 0 1.2
    3.75 97.7 0 2.3
    3.5 95.5 0.4 4.1
    3.25 13.3 74.4 12.3
    3.0 4.5 85.6 9.9
    2.75 0 96.7 3.3
    2.5 0 97.4 2.6
    2.25 0 91.2 8.8
    2.0 0 67.8 22.2
    Thanks but I believe this is just an analysis of past player rankings - as in players who in the past got a 5 star rating all (100%) played d1 and players who they rated as 3.25 stars - 13.3% of them ended up D1. What it doesnt tell you is what is the difference between a 5 star and 4.5 star player or a 3.0 star player.

  4. #504
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonade View Post
    Thanks but I believe this is just an analysis of past player rankings - as in players who in the past got a 5 star rating all (100%) played d1 and players who they rated as 3.25 stars - 13.3% of them ended up D1. What it doesnt tell you is what is the difference between a 5 star and 4.5 star player or a 3.0 star player.
    You asked about fringe player the data says fringe occurs at 3.25 to 3.5. I don't have time to do a thorough analysis but to give you an idea of how many players are rated at each star level, the 1999 birth year has 5 star= 5, 4.75=6, 4.5=11, 4.25=21, 4= ~75 (or more than I want to count), 3.75= (way more than I want to count, 3.5= hopefully this has helped give you a general idea.

  5. #505
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhall44 View Post
    You asked about fringe player the data says fringe occurs at 3.25 to 3.5. I don't have time to do a thorough analysis but to give you an idea of how many players are rated at each star level, the 1999 birth year has 5 star= 5, 4.75=6, 4.5=11, 4.25=21, 4= ~75 (or more than I want to count), 3.75= (way more than I want to count, 3.5= hopefully this has helped give you a general idea.
    Based on this info I would guess that a 3.75 should be a 4th line forward or 3rd pair D on a HE, NCHC or B1G team, where every team needs a few but you shouldn't expect them to make a big impact (I withhold the right to alter my conclusion should more information be given to me). A 3.5 or 3.25 is likely a walk-on level player.

    I initially would've assumed a 3.75 star would be a better player than that, but as long as we know what the rankings mean this is useful.

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Agganis View Post
    Based on this info I would guess that a 3.75 should be a 4th line forward or 3rd pair D on a HE, NCHC or B1G team, where every team needs a few but you shouldn't expect them to make a big impact (I withhold the right to alter my conclusion should more information be given to me). A 3.5 or 3.25 is likely a walk-on level player.

    I initially would've assumed a 3.75 star would be a better player than that, but as long as we know what the rankings mean this is useful.
    ratchet it down 0.25 and your conclusion is mostly correct

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhall44 View Post
    ratchet it down 0.25 and your conclusion is mostly correct
    players ranked 3.5 have a broad spectrum of potential. for example, a player might have already reached their potential thus destined as a 4th line forward, or may be a late bloomer but still needs time to develop and if they do may be a 1st or 2nd line forward as a senior. i hate to use the term, but a 3.5 can be a sort of "catch all". make sense?

  8. #508
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Agganis View Post
    Based on this info I would guess that a 3.75 should be a 4th line forward or 3rd pair D on a HE, NCHC or B1G team, where every team needs a few but you shouldn't expect them to make a big impact (I withhold the right to alter my conclusion should more information be given to me). A 3.5 or 3.25 is likely a walk-on level player.

    I initially would've assumed a 3.75 star would be a better player than that, but as long as we know what the rankings mean this is useful.
    Of the top 20 freshman scorers last season in Hockey East, based on points per game, 3 had a 3.75 star rating on Neutral Zone and 2 had a 3.5 star rating:

    3rd - Patrick Grasso (UNH) 3.75
    T-6th - Ryan Lohin (Lowell) 3.75
    T-11th - Derek Lodermeier (Vermont) 3.75
    T-11th - Johnathan Kovacevic (Merrimack) 3.50
    14th - Sami Tavernier (Merrimack) 3.50

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    Chris Dilks' review of the USA U17 team. https://www.sbncollegehockey.com/col...the-ntdp-u17s?

    The one name that will be interesting is:
    "The one name..."

    A sad way to express your thoughts when, arguably, the top USNTDP prospect (and only other uncommitted player) is the son of a former UNH women's hockey star. But you're probably right.

    Also Sad - Top 30 Incoming Freshmen...
    #3, Quinn Hughes - Also a son of Ellen Weinberg
    #11, Ben Mirageas - Grew up in UNH footprint
    #19, Max Gildon - Thank you Bucky!
    #23, Riley Walsh - NH Native
    #30, Jake Ryczek - UNH decommit
    Last edited by Dan; 09-28-2017 at 10:14 AM.
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  10. #510
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond


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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Poor BU in the mix for championships every year...

    They've won three HE championships, made three NCAA tournaments and lost a national title on a fluke goal against in four seasons of David Quinn. I think their recruiting strategy is paying off just fine. If you think you're winning NCAA titles every season in a one-game playoff setting you're in the wrong sport. Recruiting lots of talent gives you a chance every year which is all you can ask...

    Lowell hasn't had any MORE success and the idea that they don't recruit high-end talent is a myth. They just find it in different places. Wall, Smith, Gamberdella, Zink, Kapla and Goranson, for example, are studs anyone would want. Young kids like Kerner and Meehan are big time recruits...

    Anytime someone bemoans UNH's luck of high-end talent someone else argues about early departures. It has nothing to do with that. TK or JVR - it doesn't matter. They're both high-end. UNH needs more kids who can really play whether it's Lowell's method or BU's. It should not be assumed that when calls are out for 'elite' talent it means high draft picks and early departures. It just means players with serious ability. They haven't had enough on the roster and they don't have enough in the pipeline....
    Last edited by Dan; 09-30-2017 at 10:55 PM.

  12. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-H-C View Post
    From an upcoming article on the 2017-18 UNH incoming freshman class:

    "Neutral Zone, a top amateur hockey scouting service, ranked the 2017-18 UNH recruiting class as the 8th highest in all of Division I hockey utilizing their measurement of overall quality of recruits. Neutral Zone rated the UNH frosh (3 defensemen, 1 goalie, 3 forwards) an average score of 3.93 Stars on a 5-Star scale - a higher overall quality score than all Hockey East programs except Boston University (4.22) and Boston College (4.05). Two UNH freshmen were awarded ratings of 4 stars or above - Max Gildon (4.75 Stars) and Charlie Kelleher (4.25 Stars). On their weighted, algorithm point system, Neutral Zone rated UNH as the 14th best recruiting class in Division I."

    Here's some of the data on the 2017-18 incoming classes from Neutral Zone as of September 8, 2017:

    "Highest Overall Quality" as measured by average star rating

    #1 Michigan (6 commits) - 4.33 star average (on 5-point scale)
    #2 Minnesota (7) - 4.29
    #3 North Dakota (8) - 4.25
    #4 BU (9) - 4.22
    #5 Wisconsin (7) - 4.11
    #6 BC (5) - 4.05
    #7 Denver (9) - 4.03
    #8 UNH (7) - 3.93
    #9 Penn State (8) - 3.91
    #10 Providence (8) - 3.91
    #11 Minnesota State (9) - 3.89
    #12 UConn (5) - 3.85
    #13 Quinnipiac (8) - 3.84
    #14 Miami (7) - 3.82
    #15 UMass Amherst (13) - 3.81
    #16 Notre Dame (6) - 3.79
    #17 Union (9) - 3.78
    #18 Clarkson (8) - 3.78
    #19 Vermont (12) - 3.77
    #20 Cornell (10) - 3.75

    Other Hockey East Schools:
    #29 Northeastern (9) - 3.69
    #33 Merrimack (8) - 3.62
    #36 Maine (10) - 3.60
    #50 UMass Lowell (6) - 3.50

    "Total Points" (based on weighted algorithm)

    #1 North Dakota (8 commits) - 1120
    #2 BU (9) - 1105
    #3 UMass Amherst (13) - 1081
    #4 Minnesota (7) - 1000
    #5 Denver (9) - 884
    #6 Michigan (6) - 861
    #7 Vermont (12) - 813
    #8 Minnesota State (9) - 789
    #9 Penn State (8) - 689
    #10 Wisconsin (7) - 675
    #11 Providence (8) - 657
    #12 Colorado College (13) - 653
    #13 St Lawrence (10) - 647
    #14 UNH (7) - 643
    #15 Cornell (10) - 641
    #16 Michigan State (9) - 631
    #17 Union (9) - 617
    #18 Northeastern (9) - 605
    #19 Quinnipiac (8) - 603
    #20 Clarkson (8) - 598

    Other Hockey East Schools:
    #30 Maine (10) - 494
    #31 BC (10) - 482
    #36 Merrimack (8) - 466
    #43 UConn (5) - 423
    #52 UMass Lowell (6) - 305

    Here's a link to the list of Neutral Zone Scouts
    The large majority of them are former college and/or pro players, coaches, and/or team scouts.
    Incidently, former UNH All-American Sean Collins is an NZ Head Scout in the USA. There are many NZ scouts who cover Canada.
    ...

  13. #513
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    So far, Souza and Stewart have gotten commitments from two 4-Star rated recruits for the 2018-19 season - Angus Crookshank (forward) and Corson Green (defenseman).

  14. #514
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Wow! Seventh!! Woo hoo!!!

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    Can we stop pretending that the rankings of ONE website (a website that ranks EVERY DI player at least a 3 out of 5 in a coordinated effort to make money off of those players' families and coaches) means UNH is killing it? Also, what is UNH's average NZ ranking when you remove Gildon (who fell in their laps as an extremely late decommitment) and Kelleher (who was recruited by Borek)?? Never mind, I can do the math - 3.70, well outside of the top-20...

    Crookshank and Green are 4-stars? According to BHall's post earlier a NZ 4-star would be outside of the top-45 recruits, in 2017, and could well be outside the top-150/200 (he lost count). Context matters. Regardless, this would mean the pipeline is full of 2 4-stars, Wazny and a bunch of guys who are certainly not 4-stars. Sounds awesome.

    I won't be paying for a NZ account, but I wonder how UNH's two good recruits compares to the rest of HE. By every other account, nearly all of the HE schools are doing better than 2 at this point...

    I'm excited about Crookshank, but he's scored 12 goals and 25 points in 42 career BCHL games. Three of those goals came in one game. His production indicates he has a lot of growth ahead of him if his being UNH's best offensive prospect (by far) is to be anything to write home about or 'make Jordan Sandhu look like a nobody'. But that's based on actual production, so grain of salt. And who is he going to pass too by the time he's ready to lead an O in Durham??

    We were supposed to be psyched about Green because a few services guaranteed he was a future pro - then he went undrafted. He is a second-pair ceiling at the college level. His +/- rating was the worst on his team last season. He was traded straight up for 20 games of Jason O'Neill (another 'elite' young UNH recruit we were told so much about). And if we're throwing around random rankings, Heisenberg has him as his 66th best recruit out of the USHL alone, for 2018...

    Crookshank is solid to very good, Green is raw to above average - they have their own question marks and they're certainly not enough. Successful recruiting is about building entire rosters not picking up a 4-star or two. UNH has had plenty of players, over the last few seasons, better than we can fairly expect these two to be and it hasn't been nearly enough...

    they don't have enough in the pipeline
    ...
    Last edited by Dan; 10-01-2017 at 02:24 AM.

  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    Chris Dilks' review of the USA U17 team. https://www.sbncollegehockey.com/col...the-ntdp-u17s?

    The one name that will be interesting is:
    If the strategy to pounce on decommits to salvage recruiting classes remains, then Cole Caulfield is another name to watch. He even plays on a line with Jack Hughes and has a brother (Brock) who also decommited from OSU, playing in Green Bay with Verrier. Two diminutive, yet electric forwards. Cole in particular...

    Chance to add two top forwards, one elite, in a single blow. Could only help in the chase for the younger Gildon and Legacy Hughes...

  17. #517
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Imagine how much worse off UNH would have been over the last decade of creeping mediocrity without the van Riemsdyk (and even the Kelleher) legacy approach.

    Then again, without the Kariya legacy, even Walshy might not have managed to cheat his way to the top (twice).
    Montreal Expos Forever ...

  18. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    "The one name..."

    A sad way to express your thoughts when, arguably, the top USNTDP prospect (and only other uncommitted player) is the son of a former UNH women's hockey star. But you're probably right.

    Also Sad - Top 30 Incoming Freshmen...
    #3, Quinn Hughes - Also a son of Ellen Weinberg
    #11, Ben Mirageas - Grew up in UNH footprint
    #19, Max Gildon - Thank you Bucky!
    #23, Riley Walsh - NH Native
    #30, Jake Ryczek - UNH decommit
    Well, if Ellen Weinberg’s son actually plays for UNH, we can finally scratch one oddity in UNH recruiting. Hughes would be the first son of a former player to play at UNH.

  19. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    If the strategy to pounce on decommits to salvage recruiting classes remains, then Cole Caulfield is another name to watch. He even plays on a line with Jack Hughes and has a brother (Brock) who also decommited from OSU, playing in Green Bay with Verrier. Two diminutive, yet electric forwards. Cole in particular...

    Chance to add two top forwards, one elite, in a single blow. Could only help in the chase for the younger Gildon and Legacy Hughes...
    Cox reporting on twitter it's a done deal these two are heading to Wisconsin. The silver-lining for UNH's recruiting strategy being that Bucky will likely have to pull scholarship offers to other recruits to make it work (a la Gildon). I sure wish UNH recruiting was doing a lot better, but I'm glad they're not crossing these unethical lines under the guise of, 'this is recruiting' or 'verbals are just verbals'...

  20. #520
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Cox reporting on twitter it's a done deal these two are heading to Wisconsin. The silver-lining for UNH's recruiting strategy being that Bucky will likely have to pull scholarship offers to other recruits to make it work (a la Gildon). I sure wish UNH recruiting was doing a lot better, but I'm glad they're not crossing these unethical lines under the guise of, 'this is recruiting' or 'verbals are just verbals'...
    To my unofficial count Wisconsin has a ridiculous 29 recruits from 2018-2020. Insane.

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