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Thread: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

  1. #461
    Clark-Hislop-Cox
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by e.cat View Post
    Don't confuse the issue with facts and details Mike
    From an upcoming article on the 2017-18 UNH incoming freshman class:

    "Neutral Zone, a top amateur hockey scouting service, ranked the 2017-18 UNH recruiting class as the 8th highest in all of Division I hockey utilizing their measurement of overall quality of recruits. Neutral Zone rated the UNH frosh (3 defensemen, 1 goalie, 3 forwards) an average score of 3.93 Stars on a 5-Star scale - a higher overall quality score than all Hockey East programs except Boston University (4.22) and Boston College (4.05). Two UNH freshmen were awarded ratings of 4 stars or above - Max Gildon (4.75 Stars) and Charlie Kelleher (4.25 Stars). On their weighted, algorithm point system, Neutral Zone rated UNH as the 14th best recruiting class in Division I."

    Here's some of the data on the 2017-18 incoming classes from Neutral Zone as of September 8, 2017:

    "Highest Overall Quality" as measured by average star rating

    #1 Michigan (6 commits) - 4.33 star average (on 5-point scale)
    #2 Minnesota (7) - 4.29
    #3 North Dakota (8) - 4.25
    #4 BU (9) - 4.22
    #5 Wisconsin (7) - 4.11
    #6 BC (5) - 4.05
    #7 Denver (9) - 4.03
    #8 UNH (7) - 3.93
    #9 Penn State (8) - 3.91
    #10 Providence (8) - 3.91
    #11 Minnesota State (9) - 3.89
    #12 UConn (5) - 3.85
    #13 Quinnipiac (8) - 3.84
    #14 Miami (7) - 3.82
    #15 UMass Amherst (13) - 3.81
    #16 Notre Dame (6) - 3.79
    #17 Union (9) - 3.78
    #18 Clarkson (8) - 3.78
    #19 Vermont (12) - 3.77
    #20 Cornell (10) - 3.75

    Other Hockey East Schools:
    #29 Northeastern (9) - 3.69
    #33 Merrimack (8) - 3.62
    #36 Maine (10) - 3.60
    #50 UMass Lowell (6) - 3.50

    "Total Points" (based on weighted algorithm)

    #1 North Dakota (8 commits) - 1120
    #2 BU (9) - 1105
    #3 UMass Amherst (13) - 1081
    #4 Minnesota (7) - 1000
    #5 Denver (9) - 884
    #6 Michigan (6) - 861
    #7 Vermont (12) - 813
    #8 Minnesota State (9) - 789
    #9 Penn State (8) - 689
    #10 Wisconsin (7) - 675
    #11 Providence (8) - 657
    #12 Colorado College (13) - 653
    #13 St Lawrence (10) - 647
    #14 UNH (7) - 643
    #15 Cornell (10) - 641
    #16 Michigan State (9) - 631
    #17 Union (9) - 617
    #18 Northeastern (9) - 605
    #19 Quinnipiac (8) - 603
    #20 Clarkson (8) - 598

    Other Hockey East Schools:
    #30 Maine (10) - 494
    #31 BC (10) - 482
    #36 Merrimack (8) - 466
    #43 UConn (5) - 423
    #52 UMass Lowell (6) - 305

    Here's a link to the list of Neutral Zone Scouts
    The large majority of them are former college and/or pro players, coaches, and/or team scouts.
    Incidently, former UNH All-American Sean Collins is an NZ Head Scout in the USA. There are many NZ scouts who cover Canada.
    Last edited by C-H-C; 09-08-2017 at 10:07 PM.

  2. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-H-C View Post
    From an upcoming article on the 2017-18 UNH incoming freshman class:

    "Neutral Zone, a top amateur hockey scouting service, ranked the 2017-18 UNH recruiting class as the 8th highest in all of Division I hockey utilizing their measurement of overall quality of recruits. Neutral Zone rated the UNH frosh (3 defensemen, 1 goalie, 3 forwards) an average score of 3.93 Stars on a 5-Star scale - a higher overall quality score than all Hockey East programs except Boston University (4.22) and Boston College (4.05). Two UNH freshmen were awarded ratings of 4 stars or above - Max Gildon (4.75 Stars) and Charlie Kelleher (4.25 Stars). On their weighted, algorithm point system, Neutral Zone rated UNH as the 14th best recruiting class in Division I."

    Here's some of the data from Neutral Zone as of September 8, 2017:

    "Highest Overall Quality" as measured by average star rating

    #1 Michigan (6 commits) - 4.33 star average (on 5-point scale)
    #2 Minnesota (7) - 4.29
    #3 North Dakota (8) - 4.25
    #4 BU (9) - 4.22
    #5 Wisconsin (7) - 4.11
    #6 BC (5) - 4.05
    #7 Denver (9) - 4.03
    #8 UNH (7) - 3.93
    #9 Penn State (8) - 3.91
    #10 Providence (8) - 3.91
    #11 Minnesota State (9) - 3.89
    #12 UConn (5) - 3.85
    #13 Quinnipiac (8) - 3.84
    #14 Miami (7) - 3.82
    #15 UMass Amherst (13) - 3.81
    #16 Notre Dame (6) - 3.79
    #17 Union (9) - 3.78
    #18 Clarkson (8) - 3.78
    #19 Vermont (12) - 3.77
    #20 Cornell (10) - 3.75

    Other Hockey East Schools:
    #29 Northeastern (9) - 3.69
    #33 Merrimack (8) - 3.62
    #36 Maine (10) - 3.60
    #50 UMass Lowell (6) - 3.50

    "Total Points" (based on weighted algorithm)

    #1 North Dakota (8 commits) - 1120
    #2 BU (9) - 1105
    #3 UMass Amherst (13) - 1081
    #4 Minnesota (7) - 1000
    #5 Denver (9) - 884
    #6 Michigan (6) - 861
    #7 Vermont (12) - 813
    #8 Minnesota State (9) - 789
    #9 Penn State (8) - 689
    #10 Wisconsin (7) - 675
    #11 Providence (8) - 657
    #12 Colorado College (13) - 653
    #13 St Lawrence (10) - 647
    #14 UNH (7) - 643
    #15 Cornell (10) - 641
    #16 Michigan State (9) - 631
    #17 Union (9) - 617
    #18 Northeastern (9) - 605
    #19 Quinnipiac (8) - 603
    #20 Clarkson (8) - 598

    Other Hockey East Schools:
    #30 Maine (10) - 494
    #31 BC (10) - 482
    #36 Merrimack (8) - 466
    #43 UConn (5) - 423
    #52 UMass Lowell (6) - 305

    Here's a link to the list of Neutral Zone Scouts
    The large majority of them are former college and/or pro players, coaches, and team scouts.
    Incidently, former UNH All-American Sean Collins is an NZ Head Scout in the USA. There are many NZ scouts who cover Canada.
    Does it factor money into the equation? A 50% four star is much better than a full ride four star. The money part makes assessing recruits difficult because in a lot of cases you don't know exactly how much each player is getting.

    It seems to me the big difference between the Maine and UNH teams now versus the glory days is a lot of players now don't improve very much. There was a day both would get guys who would go 10-20-30-40 through their four years with a decent all around game. I'm not sure if kids don't work as hard now or if they get spread out to ECAC and Atlantic Hockey teams more. Hopefully in the next five years or so we're both relevant again.

  3. #463
    Clark-Hislop-Cox
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    Does it factor money into the equation? A 50% four star is much better than a full ride four star. The money part makes assessing recruits difficult because in a lot of cases you don't know exactly how much each player is getting.

    It seems to me the big difference between the Maine and UNH teams now versus the glory days is a lot of players now don't improve very much. There was a day both would get guys who would go 10-20-30-40 through their four years with a decent all around game. I'm not sure if kids don't work as hard now or if they get spread out to ECAC and Atlantic Hockey teams more. Hopefully in the next five years or so we're both relevant again.
    Unless a player reveals his scholarship amount, and most don't, that information is usually not made public. By and large, I don't think the NZ scouts are privy to that information. My guess is most commits rated 4-stars or above receive either full or close to full scholarships.

    Each recruit in the NZ database are personally evaluated, in game situations, by one or more NZ scout at least once a year, and sometimes more frequently. The overall rating that NZ gives a recruit is a small portion of the assessment information they provide. The NZ site provides detailed, extensive information on the recruit's skills and areas for improvement.

  4. #464
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    Yes, but as a parent or supporter, even when you know the kid is screwed going into the exam, you have to encourage them rather than crush them going into the exam. We've haranged Mike enough about the refusal to study all year round. Now that the test is here, we should send him off to class with a "give it your best shot, you never know...." and wait for the report card to come in the mail.
    This. In the meantime, we can direct any blistering criticisms to Mike's current boss AND his future boss ...
    Montreal Expos Forever ...

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Murray View Post
    This. In the meantime, we can direct any blistering criticisms to Mike's current boss AND his future boss ...
    ...and who knows, maybe give Mike a break given his circumstances that he was placed in...just sayin'. The guy needs a chance. He has to get out from under years of the same old, same old....can't wait to see what he does!
    Let's Go 'Cats!

  6. #466
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    "Kohei Sato's Long Journey From Tokyo to UNH"
    Includes interview and video highlights

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Well at least UNH beat out University of Alaska Anchorage out for a recruit.

  8. #468
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Bump. It's been five months and 187 other player commitments since our last news (well, excluding Drew Commesso's decommitment). With almost all of the New England 99s, 2000s and 2001s and now 2002s gone, I'll be curious to see what the next few months bring. Given the slim local pickings left, it'll be interesting to see where they find players. My guess is it'll have to be Western Canada. There's the BCHL tournament right now... maybe some news????
    Last edited by NCAA watcher; 09-22-2017 at 10:03 AM.
    UNH Hockey:
    You can hold onto something so tight
    You've already lost it.
    Dragging me down, that's not the way it used to be.
    You can't even remember what I'm trying to forget.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    Bump. It's been five months and 187 other player commitments since our last news (well, excluding Drew Commesso's decommitment). With almost all of the New England 99s, 2000s and 2001s and now 2002s gone, I'll be curious to see what the next few months bring. Given the slim local pickings left, it'll be interesting to see where they find players. My guess is it'll have to be Western Canada. There's the BCHL tournament right now... maybe some news????
    UNH was at OJHL Showcase this past week for a few days. I try to stay away from opinions on here, but Mike and Glenn are in a tough spot right now with the transition. With the exception of PC, NU and BU, the UNH coaching staff is hitting recruiting trail as much as any other team in Hockey East. Hopefully UNH fans give Souza a chance once its his ship to sail.

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Jeff, thanks for the information.

    Quote Originally Posted by CollegeHockeyRinkReport View Post
    With the exception of PC, NU and BU, the UNH coaching staff is hitting recruiting trail as much as any other team in Hockey East.
    I would only comment that I join in the "taking the summer off" meme, that others have mentioned, but I don't actually doubt the effort (though that perhaps makes me less sanguine). I would imagine that with UNH choosing/being rejected in the early commitments, they are left to pick through the leftovers/late bloomers. By definition that will require a lot more effort.

    Hopefully UNH fans give Souza a chance once its his ship to sail.
    I am in the most vocal of the skeptics, and probably voice my concerns a lot more (especially when someone comes on to argue that all is well). Since there really is no choice anymore, I guess we are in the Northeastern camp, where Madigan was an uninspiring choice, but very gradually brought the program back up. That was in large measure by Keefe joining (and bringing his Brown recruits Roy and ZAR with him). I wonder who Mike has targeted to be his recruiter, because that will be the biggest factor as to whether we are on the slow climb -- or a continued 10th place.

    Perhaps that is why UNH is not making a lot of early commitments, to allow the new recruiter a large amount of salary cap to spend?

    My frustration is that UNH had before it a chance to the third option of a quick jumpstart. But as you say, that ship is gone, so we can only hope.

    And I share your comments about the tough spot. However much he had before him as a fairly unproven young kid, Coach Umile (and Marty Scarano) have done him no favors, and actually a huge disservice. To me that will be Coach Umile's biggest legacy as reflecting his core nature (and we can argue about how that characteristic factored in to UNH's overall results while he was here). I will try to separate my antipathy toward Umile and giving Souza a chance.
    Last edited by NCAA watcher; 09-22-2017 at 01:29 PM.
    UNH Hockey:
    You can hold onto something so tight
    You've already lost it.
    Dragging me down, that's not the way it used to be.
    You can't even remember what I'm trying to forget.

  11. #471
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by CollegeHockeyRinkReport View Post
    UNH was at OJHL Showcase this past week for a few days. I try to stay away from opinions on here, but Mike and Glenn are in a tough spot right now with the transition. With the exception of PC, NU and BU, the UNH coaching staff is hitting recruiting trail as much as any other team in Hockey East. Hopefully UNH fans give Souza a chance once its his ship to sail.
    So they're all over the trail and they're just not getting any commitments? I've often asked if posters would find this reality more assuring. I sure don't...

    As much as people want to excuse the lack of commitments as a result of the awkward coaching transition at UNH - recruiting HAS been Souza's ship to sail since he arrived in Durham two years ago. The recruiting classes for his first three seasons at UNH were mostly complete with Borek recruits. He has made a few solid late additions (thanks in large part to some very good fortune), but for the most part had the opportunity to attack the future and sell high-end, 99-02 talents on coming to UNH to play for him and be a part of his vision, post-Umile and post-transition. He was the head coach in waiting, the lead recruiter and the future of the program since day one. He had a chance to paint his own picture and if you do that right, with enthusiasm, kids will jump on the opportunity. He simply hasn't been able to do that...

    He arrived with a very limited and neutral recruiting history from Brown and UConn. Now we're told he is being killed on the recruiting trail simply because of the ceremonious end to Umile's career - in the eyes of kids who wont arrive until next fall or even later? It doesn't exactly inspire confidence for his vision and ability to execute next summer or beyond, either...

    ---

    Umile and what's happening at UNH right now should be a non-factor in recruiting...

    "I'm not recruiting you to this UNH program. I'm recruiting you to my program. You will only ever play for me. This is what we're going to be. This is how you fit, can make an impact and get better on- and off- the ice. What an opportunity to put an elite program back on the map."

    Recruiting is difficult for every school for a number of reasons. Worrying about recruiting kids to play for you two or three years from now, because someone else is the HC for the next six months really isn't a big deal unless you let it become a big deal! And quite frankly, for many recruiters it would be a hell of an opportunity...
    Last edited by Dan; 09-22-2017 at 12:01 PM.
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by C-H-C View Post
    The UNH coaches promptly identified their top candidates to replace Buckley as the volunteer goalie coach of UNH. Given that the candidates have had to consider career changes and the financial implications of committing to an unpaid position, it has taken time to finalize the arrangements.

    Reading between the lines, it is likely Buckley's decision to relinquish his volunteer goalie coaching position at UNH was a factor in Commesso's decision to withdraw his commitment. If anyone thinks Coach Souza didn't make efforts to allay any concerns of Drew and his family about who would replace Coach Buckley as the UNH goalie coach, then IMO you don't know how Coach Souza does his job.
    Interesting that the new volunteer goalie coach is also a St.Sebastians alum.
    UNH Hockey:
    You can hold onto something so tight
    You've already lost it.
    Dragging me down, that's not the way it used to be.
    You can't even remember what I'm trying to forget.

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by CollegeHockeyRinkReport View Post
    UNH was at OJHL Showcase this past week for a few days. I try to stay away from opinions on here, but Mike and Glenn are in a tough spot right now with the transition. With the exception of PC, NU and BU, the UNH coaching staff is hitting recruiting trail as much as any other team in Hockey East. Hopefully UNH fans give Souza a chance once its his ship to sail.
    Appreciate hearing this news...just as I thought. Any other feedback you can give us is greatly appreciated on this front! Go 'Cats!
    Let's Go 'Cats!

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    Interesting that the new volunteer goalie coach is also a St.Sebastians alum.
    Who is it? I don't see anyone named on the unh website...is this official?
    Let's Go 'Cats!

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    I'm not here to tell fans how they should feel about the job performance of coaches but I'm simply stating it is unfair to criticize the effort put forth by Glenn Stewart and Mike Souza.

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by HockeyRef View Post
    Who is it? I don't see anyone named on the unh website...is this official?
    I am honestly curious if this news satisfies you or makes you feel better about UNH recruiting? I don't want to speak for others - but, I feel I have been pretty clear in my complaints that it is either a lack of aggression in targeting recruits/top recruits or an inability to land recruits/top recruits. The simple fact that UNH recruiters are attending showcases doesn't tell us much about whether they are aggressive recruiters or who they are targeting, premium prospects in particular (Perhaps Jeff can fill us in further?). But let's assume it does. That would mean that UNH is as aggressive as any school in the East and is chasing after all the top kids. And still...

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher
    Bump. It's been five months and 187 other player commitments since our last news (well, excluding Drew Commesso's decommitment). With almost all of the New England 99s, 2000s and 2001s and now 2002s gone...
    I, personally, would rather hear that they are in a learning curve on the process of recruiting in 2017 than hear they are doing everything the top programs are doing and not getting the results...
    Last edited by Dan; 09-22-2017 at 02:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    I am honestly curious if this news satisfies you or makes you feel better about UNH recruiting? I don't want to speak for others - but, I feel I have been pretty clear in my complaints that it is either a lack of aggression in targeting recruits/top recruits or an inability to land recruits/top recruits. The simple fact that UNH recruiters are attending showcases doesn't tell us much about whether they are aggressive recruiters or who they are targeting, premium prospects in particular (Perhaps Jeff can fill us in further?). But let's assume it does. That would mean that UNH is as aggressive as any school in the East and is chasing after all the top kids we keep hearing about. And still...



    I, personally, would rather hear that they are in a learning curve on the process of recruiting in 2017 than hear they are doing everything the top programs are doing and not getting the results...
    Quite honestly Dan news like this (not who the goalie coach is) validates for me (rather than satisfies) what I have long suspected that our coaches are out there looking for quality players to compete for UNH hockey. Now it would be equally gratifying to see tangible results as well. We can't win/compete without the horses even I get that...geeze.

    Funny Borek got raked over the coals for too many prospects and now Souza/Stewart for not enough. Seems like a no win proposition but like I have said I remain extremely hopeful they know what they are doing and the players will come. At the same time I anxiously await those players just like the rest of you.
    Last edited by HockeyRef; 09-23-2017 at 07:04 AM.

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by HockeyRef View Post
    Funny Borek got raked over the coals for too many prospects and now Souza/Stewart for not enough. Seems like a no win proposition
    Or maybe recruit the correct number of players? There is a large middle ground between getting so many commitments you need to turn away or defer players, and going half of a year without a single commit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agganis View Post
    Or maybe recruit the correct number of players? There is a large middle ground between getting so many commitments you need to turn away or defer players, and going half of a year without a single commit.
    A good point.

    Borek gets criticized for spreading money across too many OK players, for consistently missing on early pick ups and for failing to ensure some of his best players actually made it to UNH. The result - not enough talent for UNH to be competitive.

    The current coaches are taking a passive (or unsuccessful) approach to landing commitments. Their future recruiting classes remain full of empty slots as the better prospects commit by the day. They've (to some degree) bailed themselves out with some late decommitments in 2016 and 2017, but many fear it's a recipe for - not enough talent for UNH to be competitive.

    They're criticized for the same reasons, even if the route they've taken is different...
    Last edited by Dan; 09-22-2017 at 03:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agganis View Post
    Or maybe recruit the correct number of players? There is a large middle ground between getting so many commitments you need to turn away or defer players, and going half of a year without a single commit.
    Understood.

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