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Thread: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

  1. #361
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    I think, entering Mike's third year, it will be interesting to see if his recruiting has or will evolve once he can claw the reins out of Dick's clenched hands. Are the first two years of minimal recruiting of blue chippahs the product of his own philosophy, or the vaccum when Borek left and the anchor of Dickie weighing it down? In thinking about this question while tossing and turning at 2 am, I was reminded about why I have such antipathy toward Dick. He certainly would not know the Select festival or its participants if he happened to stumble into the rink by accident.

    So, forgive my sleep deprived response:

    Souza clearly stays away from pursuing blue chips (Commesso being the sole exception). His most notable recruits were late de-commits elsewhere (Wyse, Gildon) or late bloomers (Maass). Those actually are his most promising ones, so it may be that he prefers waiting. A bit risky that enough talent will percolate late, but lets see. The rest of his recruits are not 15 or 16 year olds, but the 17 -18 year old grouping of interesting but not blue chippahs (Sweeney, Wazny, Pierson, Bahn, Green, Verrier, MacAdams).

    So, early recruiting

    1. It is needed to get elite players. No doubt jumping early has a mixed rate, and you can see from the kids shed by North Dakota and BU, I (and Dan?) believe this is necessary to get top talent. (Sadly, UNH got the worst of the early recruiting, with Borek taking the kids who panned out -- Farabee and Ryczek, and leaving for UNH the unpleasant to cut loose those who didn't -- O'Neill, Darcy, Cipollone (Esposito?). Even the late de-commits have too many options, like Biro and Limoges who went to Penn State

    2. Pursuing early blue chippahs has further importance because it sends a signal of desirabilty to other recruits, who want to be deemed a blue chippah and want to know that your program will go after them.

    All of the top programs do it, and those that didn't because they initially lacked the cred (Penn State, Quinnipiac) started to do so as soon as their reputation allowed it. It creates a buzz amoung the age group, and creates momentum. The only exception is Lowell, which does not seek those early commits.

    So, until UNH gets new cred to do it by having the team incrementally improve (and thereby become a name), or a new recruiter (who may take more chances in that age group), they really would be limited to the riskier sub-blue chippah 15 or 16 market in which there are lots of flameouts.

    BTW, I see Northeastern just got a 15 year old from Berwick Academy who was at the Select 15 tourney. Not a blue chippah, but they're comfortable in that market.

    Lemonade, I'm glad you are thinking about the 02s. Commesso may have to do a lot of heavy lifting on his age group, because UNH has a lot working against it right now.

    Excellent points. UNH has to decide what they are - are they are premier program that can go head to head recruiting with the BU/ND/BC or continue to be a 2nd tier option for leftovers and decommits as they have in the recent past. Both methods can be successful as you mentioned with Lowell going after older players. I prefer being aggressive and going after younger blue chips for the reasons you mentioned. It creates a buzz and attracts additional players. Lets face it all the National Championship contending teams in this area are aggressive recruiters at the younger ages. UNH needs a shot in the arm and hopefully Souza will take recruiting to the next level to get UNH back where it belongs.

  2. #362
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Good luck to incoming freshman Max Gildon as he competes in the World Jr Summer Showcase this coming week!! He will have a lot of great playing experience...looking forward to seeing him in the blue and white!

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by HockeyRef View Post
    Good luck to incoming freshman Max Gildon as he competes in the World Jr Summer Showcase this coming week!! He will have a lot of great playing experience...looking forward to seeing him in the blue and white!
    Lost a Max at Bentley, gain a Max at UNH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snively65 View Post
    Lost a Max at Bentley, gain a Max at UNH.
    I see what you did there...😉 Btw where did the other Max end up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HockeyRef View Post
    I see what you did there...😉 Btw where did the other Max end up?
    Max French signed with the AHL Utica Comets (Vancouver Canucks affiliate) on March 22nd, but I do not see that he played in any games for them. Phil Desimone (148 points at UNH from 2007/08 to 2010/11) played for the Comets early this past season, before moving across the pond to play in Switzerland.

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonade View Post
    Nows the time to be aggressive and go land some more 02 players!

    https://www.sbncollegehockey.com/col...y-northeastern

    BC-15
    BU-13
    Northeastern-11
    UConn-8
    Maine-7
    Providence-6
    Vemont-6
    U.Mass-3
    UNH-3
    Merrmack-2
    Lowell-1




    However, it’s interesting to note that most of the New England players born in 2001 who are considered “elite” at this moment are now off the board.
    Last edited by NCAA watcher; 08-11-2017 at 03:16 PM.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    https://www.sbncollegehockey.com/col...y-northeastern

    BC-15
    BU-13
    Northeastern-11
    UConn-8
    Maine-7
    Providence-6
    Vemont-6
    U.Mass-3
    UNH-3
    Merrmack-2
    Lowell-1
    https://twitter.com/mbilotta/status/896364400055128064

    I wonder if any will end up at UNH for a change - or if we'll be too busy rounding out or empty 00, 01, 02 classes with the third tier to even be in the mix...

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    https://twitter.com/mbilotta/status/896364400055128064

    I wonder if any will end up at UNH for a change - or if we'll be too busy rounding out or empty 00, 01, 02 classes with the third tier to even be in the mix...
    This is exactly is what wrong at UNH. The 01 class is already accounted for, the 02 class is starting to get picked apart and UNH is on the sidelines. This is depressing. UNH has to get aggressive and they arent. Are they going to take the overage/older kid route like Umass Lowell? Right now they are stuck in the middle and thats not a position you want to be in.

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    For the first time ***CORRECTION*** since the late 1980's ***CORRECTION***, the incoming class includes two "true freshman" (i.e., graduated from high school last spring) defensemen, selected in the NHL Draft - Max Gildon (3rd Round, 66th overall) and Benton Maass (6th Round, 182nd overall). Tightening up the defense, reducing the goals against average, and increasing goals and assists coming from defensemen, should lead to a better record. The "top" 14, 15, and 16-year-olds who are inclined to verbally commit early want to play for programs that consistently compete in the NCAA Tournament. If/when UNH returns to a program with that reputation, those type of youngsters (e.g., Drew Commesso) will be more likely to early commit to UNH.
    Last edited by C-H-C; 08-13-2017 at 02:34 PM.

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by C-H-C View Post
    For the first time in the history of the UNH men's hockey program, the incoming class includes two "true freshman" (i.e., graduated from high school last spring) defensemen, selected in the NHL Draft - Max Gildon (3rd Round, 66th overall) and Benton Maass (6th Round, 182nd overall).
    Slight correction. (1987, Kevin Dean and Adrien Plavsic, see below) Also the 1985 Rebuild, where true freshmen NHL draft picks Mike Roth (New Jersey, 170) and Kevin Schrader (New Jersey, 129) came in along with true freshman goalie Richard Burchill (St.Louis 121) to tighten up the defense and reduce the goals against average.

    Also, your point about early commits only going to proven programs does not match up to the Michigan State example, where they have just landed two 02s, despite their program being on part. (Or similarly, Wisconsin two years ago). The difference seems to be less that current status, and more a belief in what they can become. Michigan State that hired a new coach known in the national scene, because he was the coach of the USA Development Team. Wisconsin hired a known coach, Tony Granato, and two proven assistants and in the next two months they locked up about a half dozen of the top 16 year olds.

    Going back to 1985, when Bob Kullen finally got the top job in 1986, he aggressively moved to bring in six future NHL players in his first two classes. Defensemen Kevin Dean, Adrien Plavisc (two more true freshmen NHL draft picks) and All-Hockey East Dave McIntyre, plus forwards Chris Winnes, then next year Joe Flanagan, Dom Amodeo, Scott Morrow and Savo Mitrovic.

    Coaches bring in super recruits based on lots of reasons, foremost being a buy-in to the future state of the program, not just the current status. Recruits are a leading indicator, not a lagging indicator.
    Last edited by NCAA watcher; 08-13-2017 at 10:18 AM.

  11. #371
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    Coaches bring in super recruits based on lots of reasons, foremost being a buy-in to the future state of the program, not just the current status.
    Gildon, Maass, and Commesso stated that this is one of the reasons they chose to commit to Souza and UNH.

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    C-H-C, you present many facts that suggest you are content with where they are in terms of recruiting and transition process. Occasionally you lapse into a more sanguine view, e.g., "If/when UNH returns.." We can trade facts and counter-facts, but reading between the lines I suspect that you have some doubts. Without asking you to give your views about where they are now, what are your milestones that you use to evaluate whether UNH is moving in the right direction?

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    Slight correction. (1987, Kevin Dean and Adrien Plavsic, see below) Also the 1985 Rebuild, where true freshmen NHL draft picks Mike Roth (New Jersey, 170) and Kevin Schrader (New Jersey, 129) came in along with true freshman goalie Richard Burchill (St.Louis 121) to tighten up the defense and reduce the goals against average.

    Also, your point about early commits only going to proven programs does not match up to the Michigan State example, where they have just landed two 02s, despite their program being on part. (Or similarly, Wisconsin two years ago). The difference seems to be less that current status, and more a belief in what they can become. Michigan State that hired a new coach known in the national scene, because he was the coach of the USA Development Team. Wisconsin hired a known coach, Tony Granato, and two proven assistants and in the next two months they locked up about a half dozen of the top 16 year olds.

    Going back to 1985, when Bob Kullen finally got the top job in 1986, he aggressively moved to bring in six future NHL players in his first two classes. Defensemen Kevin Dean, Adrien Plavisc (two more true freshmen NHL draft picks) and All-Hockey East Dave McIntyre, plus forwards Chris Winnes, then next year Joe Flanagan, Dom Amodeo, Scott Morrow and Savo Mitrovic.

    Coaches bring in super recruits based on lots of reasons, foremost being a buy-in to the future state of the program, not just the current status. Recruits are a leading indicator, not a lagging indicator.
    Based on your familiarity with the 1980's UNH teams, would you characterize Coach Kullen, who was in his late 30's when he succeeded Coach Holt (Coach Souza will be 40 in January) as "known on the national scene" like Tony Granato and Danton Cole?

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by C-H-C View Post
    Based on your familiarity with the 1980's UNH teams, would you characterize Coach Kullen, who was in his late 30's when he succeeded Coach Holt (Coach Souza will be 40 in January) as "known on the national scene" like Tony Granato and Danton Cole?
    Let me equivocate mildly. Recruiting has obviously changed dramatically in the past 30 years, and with it the footprint of recruiting has changed. Apart from Maine and BU, there was no recruiting in the USHL and Western Canada, and no national program. So the concept of a "national scene" is pretty fictional.

    With that caveat, Kullen had been recruiting UNH's footprint of Ontario and Quebec with decent success for nine years (multiple NCAA appearances from 1977 to 1983), and he had a further 3 or so years on the Mass scene as coach of Lawrence Academy. As an assistant he got decent Matignon kids David Lee, Ralph Robinson, George White, Steve Lyons, Mike Golden (2d round pick in 1983), Steve Leach (top Mass pick in Mass in 84), Peter Douris (top Toronto midget pick), So, even if one says he was not a national name, he had a proven resume of success. Those are the very locations he accessed quickly when he took over.

    Having volleyed that back to you, let me ask you what you would commend about Mike Souza's resume?
    Last edited by NCAA watcher; 08-13-2017 at 11:10 AM.

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    C-H-C, you present many facts that suggest you are content with where they are in terms of recruiting and transition process. Occasionally you lapse into a more sanguine view, e.g., "If/when UNH returns.." We can trade facts and counter-facts, but reading between the lines I suspect that you have some doubts. Without asking you to give your views about where they are now, what are your milestones that you use to evaluate whether UNH is moving in the right direction?
    Fair questions. On my blog, I report information on the "blue chip" UNH commits to walk-ons and everyone in between. I find all of them interesting and look forward to watching them play in a UNH uniform. Some thrill me with their play at UNH and others disappoint. One of the main reasons I keep attending UNH hockey games is I enjoy seeing how they develop.

    On this forum, I find that UNH's accomplishments on the recruiting front and on the ice tend to be under-reported. I post every now and then in an effort to provide some balance.

    As for milestones to judge the overall trajectory of the program, I look for a potent improvement in the play in the defensive end. Substantial decreases in goals against, prime shots on goal, and opponent's time of puck possession are needed to get the team back to the NCAA tournament.

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    Let me equivocate mildly. Recruiting has obviously changed dramatically in the past 30 years, and with it the footprint of recruiting has changed. Apart from Maine and BU, there was no recruiting in the USHL and Western Canada, and no national program. So the concept of a "national scene" is pretty fictional.

    With that caveat, Kullen had been recruiting UNH's footprint of Ontario and Quebec with decent success for nine years (multiple NCAA appearances from 1977 to 1983), and he had a further 3 or so years on the Mass scene as coach of Lawrence Academy. As an assistant he got decent Matignon kids David Lee, Ralph Robinson, George White, Steve Lyons, Mike Golden (2d round pick in 1983), Steve Leach (top Mass pick in Mass in 84), Peter Douris (top Toronto midget pick), So, even if one says he was not a national name, he had a proven resume of success. Those are the very locations he accessed quickly when he took over.

    Having volleyed that back to you, let me ask you what you would commend about Mike Souza's resume?
    Since I'm most familiar with Coach Souza since he came to UNH (late summer 2015), I will comment on that time frame. Also, it's important to remind everyone that Coach Stewart has also been very active on the recruiting trail and deserves credit for accomplishments in that arena.

    I think Coach Souza has had two primary accomplishments in recruiting at UNH so far. First, the play of Wyse and commitments of Gildon, Maass, and Miller should address the obvious weaknesses in the defensive end. Second, a few players with high-end potential (Commesso, Gildon, and Maass) have embraced Coach Souza's recruiting "pitch", which he articulated in my interview with him last summer (http://unhhockeyblog.blogspot.com/20...ead-coach.html) - that is, pride in the historical accomplishments of the program and being driven to return to the national stage and win a National Championship. All three have articulated their buy-in to these goals in various articles and interviews.
    Last edited by C-H-C; 08-13-2017 at 12:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C-H-C View Post
    Gildon, Maass, and Commesso stated that this is one of the reasons they chose to commit to Souza and UNH.
    On the surface this leaves an exponentially larger group of blue chip kids who clearly didn't buy in to that sales pitch (assuming they were even asked). A deeper look at this statement would raise the question of whether or not Maass is a blue chip, 'super recruit' (he's a nice player, but the answer is no - he's a late blooming, still played HS at 18, with notable potential kind of kid). It would also reveal that Gildon only bought into Souza's 'sales pitch' after being recruited over, dumped by WI and finding scholarship money for 17-18 was very scarce...

    Commesso remains the only elite level, high-end, must have recruit Souza has landed on time, in what has become NCAA hockey's recruiting schedule for better or worse...

    I certainly wouldn't view a 1-for-? as evidence Souzas vision for UNHs future is paying dividends...

    ---

    Now, good for Souza to identify a late bloomer and grab a back on the market blue chipper. Doing so in the future will pay dividends if they join recruiting classes that have succeeded in early recruiting. Adding them to future classes with just a bunch of guys, will leave you with teams like the last few...

    Kelleher! Poturalski! Pesce! #openingroundontheroad
    Last edited by Dan; 08-13-2017 at 06:48 PM.

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    I guess if we're counting votes, do Farabee, Ryczek and O'Neill get votes, too?

    My frustration stems from the fact that we are in year three of this purgatory. We have essentially lost three years of recruiting -- 2015, 2016 and 2017, and lack any accountability. Where we got late commits Gildon and Maass, they have "bought in" on Souza. If we fail to get promising youngsters (or have lost ones already committed), there's a built in excuse that its because Souza is not yet the HC.

    At a certain point, taking a novice swimmer (Souza) and then tying a weight around his ankle for 3 years while he learns to swim, may not have been the best strategy. Getting excited when he periodically bobs his head above the water, without applying any broader context for the extended periods below water, and the fact that the others in the pool are doing laps, is not my nature.

    It's also not fair to blame Souza, but rather Blue Skies and Captain Dick who thought of this verkackte scheme to see if Souza can sink or swim, rather than simply waiting for three years and then picking a good swimmer. But then again, tactical thinking has never been Dick's strength, he's stubborn and selfish, and the supposed adult in the room, Blue Skies, lacks a spine.
    Last edited by NCAA watcher; 08-14-2017 at 10:16 AM.

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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    At a certain point, taking a novice swimmer (Souza) and then tying a weight around his ankle for 3 years while he learns to swim, may not have been the best strategy. Getting excited when he periodically bobs his head above the water, without applying any broader context for the extended periods below water, and the fact that the others in the pool are doing laps, is not my nature.

    It's also not fair to blame Souza, but rather Blue Skies and Captain Dick who thought of this verkackte scheme to see if Souza can sink or swim, rather than simply waiting for three years and then picking a good swimmer. But then again, tactical thinking has never been Dick's strength ... and the supposed adult in the room, Blue Skies, lacks a spine.
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    Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond



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