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  • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

    Originally posted by C-H-C View Post
    It took Rohlik 4 seasons to get Ohio State back to the NCAA Tournament, which they did last season (the first time since 2009). He got Bittner, an OSU alum, to come last spring and Steve Miller to come to OSU last summer. The three of them have received commitments from four, 4-star or higher recruits in the last 5 weeks - Gildon 4.5, Prokop 4.5, Layton 4.25 and Vanderbeck 4.0. Getting back to the NCAA Tourney can help attract top assistant coaches and recruits. Also, both Bittner (‘16 World Junior A) and Miller (‘17 World Juniors) had recent success as assistant coaches of Team USA squads. Top college recruiters often have experience coaching top USA Hockey teams on their resume.
    I know Quinnipiac just lost out on Layton Ahac. They finished second to Ohio State for him.
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    • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

      Originally posted by HockeyRef View Post
      So before anyone chops my head off, believe me...it would've been great had he chosen us. Not sure this is sigh worthy???
      Any individual choice can be explained by extraneous factors. That's why one has to take a broader view of patterns. Losing kids who already had a natural reason to come (already committed (Farabee, Ryczek, Commesso), were already here (Foegele), have a family connection (Gildon)) is one data point. Having absolutely no traction whatsoever in recruiting top 15 year olds (last in HE in 2000s commitments), and little traction in any recruiting (lowest number of commits of HE, and that includes holdovers Cipollone and Darcy), and having to overpay for marginal talent (scholarships to non-descript walkons Sato, Sacco, Cefalu) where other teams get more talented players at little cost because they want to play for an up and coming program, are all signs of a larger pattern about how UNH and its coaches to be are viewed by the hockey world.

      Until and unless they develop some traction, and use the (false?) appearance of being a top 15 team on the upswing to bump recruiting, they are spinning their wheels. This is now year three of essentially killing time waiting for a change, and rather than use the time to build a foundation, that foundation has eroded to the point that the pipeline is one I would trade for almost every top 30 NCAA team, and all HE teams except UMass and perhaps Merrimack.

      You also might notice a pattern that when a new coach comes, they have a definite idea of who they want, and have connections with kids, so that when hired, there is a flurry of new commits. See Michigan, Northern Michigan, Michigan State, U.Mass, etc. That signals a plan. Compare that to UNH's inaction, it sends a vibe of learning on the job. Not exactly what a kid who wants to advance in hockey would sign up for.


      So, no, Michael Gildon is not sigh worthy, if that makes you feel better.
      Last edited by NCAA watcher; 11-29-2017, 07:21 AM.
      The Souza record:
      15-16 10th place
      16-17 10th place
      17-18 11th place
      18-19 8th place
      19-20 9th place
      20-21 10th place
      21-22 9th place
      22-23 10th place

      Comment


      • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

        Watcher...I'm hearing your point. And I will say...I am hopeful that our recruiting steps up. It has to or there is little hope we will have a shot at getting back to where we once were. Leaps and bounds aren't going to happen overnight; this is going to take some time. Credibility is everything...not to impugn our current players and or coaches; it's just the way of things. That OSU coach took 4 years to build his program back to prominence. Mike Souza is just getting started. I cannot vouch for how it's (recruiting) going am not qualified to speak of that, but I do believe he will be a great HC and I'm looking forward to seeing what he (and his associates) come up with. Making some noise this season would be a good start...in fact...it's more important than any round number if you ask me. It's our future. Period.

        I have so little experience in these discussions, but I do look at a program like Union. 2000 kids go there. Their facilities (I have only been once) aren't the Taj. But dang if they don't get it going. (National Champs) So that (facilities) can't be a big excuse. We have so much to offer potential players! It's frustrating...

        Ps...I think I am out of sighs after the loss of DC....
        Last edited by HockeyRef; 11-29-2017, 07:43 AM.
        Here we go 'Cats!!

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        • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

          Originally posted by QUAlum2004 View Post
          I know Quinnipiac just lost out on Layton Ahac. They finished second to Ohio State for him.
          Well there you go....there's the pipeline in action.
          Here we go 'Cats!!

          Comment


          • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

            I honestly question the strategy of UNH recruiting right now. Obviously they dont have the leverage to get the young blue chip prospects currently....or they arent active in recruiting the young blue chips - could be either. That would mean they will rely on the late bloomers like the UMass Lowells of the hockey world....not sure Souza is of Norm Bazin level of coach to pull that off. In my opinion UNH is stuck in the middle, they arent getting the young blue chips competing with the likes of BC/BU/PC and they dont seem to be getting the late commits either (other than Gildon who fell into their lap). Its a tough spot to be in - they have no recruiting identity.

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            • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

              Is it a strategy? Sometimes a result can just be the product of a failure.
              Last edited by NCAA watcher; 11-29-2017, 08:24 AM.
              The Souza record:
              15-16 10th place
              16-17 10th place
              17-18 11th place
              18-19 8th place
              19-20 9th place
              20-21 10th place
              21-22 9th place
              22-23 10th place

              Comment


              • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

                Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
                Apart from the noticeable difference in credentials of the assistants (Miller recruited for years at NCAA champion Denver and also for NCAA champion Providence, Bittner coached in one of the prime recruiting spots, the USHL), care to make the same contrast between Rohlik and Souza (years coaching, NCAA Appearances, broader peer recognition by items such as being selected to coach USA teams)?

                How do you see any of those differences as impacting your hopeful "four year/only need to hire qualified recruiters" path?

                And final question, if attracting top notch assistants is critical, do you anticipate that, because Umile's coaching tree has almost no branches (he had little interest in fostering younger proteges), we might even see UNH abandon its affirmative action plan of hiring underqualified UNH alums, at the expense of more qualified on-UNH alums?
                I was trying to understand why the younger Gildon would choose Ohio State over Big 10 powerhouses like Minnesota, Michigan, and Wisconsin. OSU's recent success in getting commitments from multiple 4.0+ Star prospects appears to be related to the factors I described (e.g., returning to the NCAA Tournament, hiring assistants with long recruiting resumes and connections to USA hockey). I wasn't prescribing a strategy for UNH recruiting.

                I do think getting back to the NCAA Tournament is a key to UNH attracting multiple 4.0+ Star recruits. UNH hasn't been competitive on the ice at the national level since 2012-13. As of now, Souza and Stewart have obtained commitments from these 4.0+ Star players: Gildon (4.75) and Maass (4.0) for 2017; Angus Crookshank (4.25) and Corson Green (4.0) for 2018; Chase Stevenson (4.0) for 2019. Those numbers would likely increase if UNH qualifies for the 2018 NCAA Tournament.
                The UNH Men's Hockey Blog

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                • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

                  No strategy + no vision = no top shelf recruits.

                  Dynamite Mike and his sidekick Glenn had better prove to be excellent at coaching their guys up.
                  Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                  Montreal Expos Forever ...

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                  • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

                    The comparison between Souza and Bazin is interesting. Souza, like Bazin, has a style of play in mind for getting back to the NCAA tournament on a regular basis and the type of recruits that will succeed in that system. Bazin has succeeded largely, though not exclusively, by searching for older players in leagues other than the USHL. Souza and Stewart are taking a somewhat different approach. They are getting commitments from younger players (16 to 18-year-old range) who play the style they are looking for and who have, in their judgement, substantial upside as they mature into 20-year-olds.
                    The UNH Men's Hockey Blog

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                    • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

                      Bazin
                      Head Coach DIII 2008-2011
                      Primary recruiting assistant at Colorado College 2000-2008
                      NCAA appearances in 2001, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, 08
                      Recruited multiple All-Americans

                      Rohlik
                      3 seasons as assistant to Mark Osiecki at Ohio State
                      10 seasons on the coaching staff at Minnesota Duluth (2001-10) where the squad advanced to two NCAA tournaments, including a Frozen Four appearance in 2004, and won the 2009 WCHA playoff title. He was part of the staff that put together the roster of the Bulldogs’ 2010 NCAA Championship squad.
                      three seasons at Nebraska-Omaha, joining the program for its inaugural campaign in 1997-98. In the team’s first year as a member of the CCHA (its third year as a Division I team), the squad advanced to the 2000 CCHA Championship final.
                      five years as the head coach at Hill-Murray High School


                      Souza
                      Second Assistant at Brown 2011-13 (12th place and 7th place)
                      assistant at U.Conn 2013-15 (one year in Atlantic conference, last place HE in second year)
                      Last edited by NCAA watcher; 11-29-2017, 09:35 AM.
                      The Souza record:
                      15-16 10th place
                      16-17 10th place
                      17-18 11th place
                      18-19 8th place
                      19-20 9th place
                      20-21 10th place
                      21-22 9th place
                      22-23 10th place

                      Comment


                      • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

                        Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
                        Bazin - assistant at Colorado College 2000-2008
                        NCAAs 01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, 08
                        Head Coach DIII 2008-2011
                        Recruited multiple All-Americans

                        Rohlik
                        3 seasons as assistant to Mark Osiecki at Ohio State
                        10 seasons on the coaching staff at Minnesota Duluth (2001-10) where the squad advanced to two NCAA tournaments, including a Frozen Four appearance in 2004, and won the 2009 WCHA playoff title. He was part of the staff that put together the roster of the Bulldogs’ 2010 NCAA Championship squad.
                        three seasons at Nebraska-Omaha, joining the program for its inaugural campaign in 1997-98. In the team’s first year as a member of the CCHA (its third year as a Division I team), the squad advanced to the 2000 CCHA Championship final.
                        five years as the head coach at Hill-Murray High School


                        Souza
                        Second Assistant at Brown 2011-13 (12th place and 7th place)
                        Second assistant at U.Conn 2013-15 (one year in Atlantic conference, last place HE in second year)
                        You don't think Souza has the resume to succeed. I think he has other attributes which will lead to UNH returning to the NCAA tournament. Time will tell.
                        The UNH Men's Hockey Blog

                        Comment


                        • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

                          Originally posted by C-H-C View Post
                          I was trying to understand why the younger Gildon would choose Ohio State over Big 10 powerhouses like Minnesota, Michigan, and Wisconsin. OSU's recent success in getting commitments from multiple 4.0+ Star prospects appears to be related to the factors I described (e.g., returning to the NCAA Tournament, hiring assistants with long recruiting resumes and connections to USA hockey). I wasn't prescribing a strategy for UNH recruiting.
                          You were excusing the UNH coaching staff from the responsibility of losing another top legacy recruit - and in the process of trying to protect them you completely exposed the complete lack of experience and track record of the UNH staff and why they are not up to job. I'm sick and tired of hearing about how UNH can't compete with the elite programs in college hockey. Now, we're losing recruits with major UNH connections to the Ohio State's of the world and that is a perfect indicator of just how far UNH has fallen as a program and a recruiting destination. And that is NOT because Ohio State is a BIG school. It is a direct result of what our coach and our AD have let this program become and the inattention to recruiting (the most important factor in college sports) by our staff. Period. Souza is not the only recruiter with charisma and a nice personality, who makes statements about winning. Newsflash - they all have/do that. The good ones execute.

                          Ohio State used to be where kids UNH coaches ignored went to play hockey (Jobst). It didn't take four years for Rohlik to get back to the NCAA Tournament. It took effort and results from DAY ONE (Jobst, Joshua, Laczynski - all committed years ago when OSU stunk.) quantifying into an NCAA level program. Those are the efforts and results UNH is simply NOT getting. More on this later...
                          Last edited by Dan; 11-29-2017, 10:04 AM.
                          Live Free or Die!!
                          Miami University '03

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                          • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

                            You got my attention with this, so I looked at Wisco's commits. Currently there are 32 of them. They have 14 kids committed for the fall of 2019. There are only 8 players scheduled to graduate. Looks like there will have to be some creative Roster Management then. 2018, 2020 and 2021 don't look to be over-recruited. Yet.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by C-H-C View Post
                              You don't think Souza has the resume to succeed. I think he has other attributes which will lead to UNH returning to the NCAA tournament. Time will tell.
                              He has to start somewhere!! They all had to start somewhere! Good points about the players coming in; a few more of those please...Really looking forward to see who MS gets as his next Asst Coach; that will be one big appointment.

                              Ps MIke Souza has a definite vision and plan for UNH hockey. To say otherwise does him a great disservice. Just because Jack Eichel has not arrived does not mean he is not hard at work. And speaking of those type of players you tell me if/when UNH back in their "glory days" had a roster full of them? It's a different animal the landscape has changed since then. That much I do understand... If recruiting 15 "blue chippahs" are all you need then why doesn't BU win the National Championship every year? Because it takes a well rounded roster of coachable players who don't have their thoughts completely on their big pay day amd just might hang around for more than 2 seasons. That's the landscape we compete with. Wow the guy hasn't taken over the reigns completely and he's already done. Harrumph.
                              Last edited by HockeyRef; 11-29-2017, 10:52 AM.
                              Here we go 'Cats!!

                              Comment


                              • Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2017 and Beyond

                                Originally posted by NCAA watcher
                                In the spirit of candid dialogue, you seem to suggest that he has "other atributes," which seems to implicitly agree with my precept. I wont ask you to say it explicitly. But I will ask about your coda: "time will tell." In your view, how much time -- if ever -- would you suggest before it is fair to ask the questions we may be prematurely raising?
                                You are raising fair questions. I think there have been some encouraging signs already. For example, Souza and Stewart got two 4+ players - Gildon and Maass - to come to UNH. Also, the team returned to the top-ten in the national rankings and are hanging onto #13.

                                The end of this season will be an important marker. As I've said, qualifying for the NCAA Tournament is important. If they succeed, I would expect more 4+ Star players to commit. If UNH does make the tournament and those type of players don't commit, I would be concerned.

                                I can't predict the future but my guess is Souza will have at least one year to be the head coach and probably three. By the 2019-20 season, most of the players on the squad will be Souza/Stewart recruits and Souza will be into his second season as head coach. If UNH does not make the NCAA Tournament in 2018, '19 or '20, I wouldn't expect him to remain the head coach much beyond that.
                                The UNH Men's Hockey Blog

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