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  • Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
    That is a fantastic article. The reporter should win something.

    But please don't tar and heather all non-profits just because this one appears to have been run by crooks for awhile. Most of them are run by really good people who are essentially donating their time.
    Obviously the heads of that particular non-profit are using their position to loot it for their own benefit, but I agree with your comments.

    I have a close friend who actually heads up a non-profit that seems to be very similar to the one described in the article, although I have no reason to believe that he is getting paid anything close to what those people took for themselves.

    The author of the article talked about the debate around the country about the wages paid to these workers, something that my friend has often described as "piece rate." He and I have gone round and round about the appropriateness of having these employees work for very little money.

    His non-profit focuses on two areas. They clean facilities, such as churches or office buildings or the like. They also do small packaging work. Basically where the workers are asked to assemble a kit of three or four items into a box and seal it up.

    There are two primary issues that I argue about with my friend. The first is the idea of paying someone what might amount to a buck an hour for working. He makes the counter argument that due to the severe disability of some of the employees, you literally could not employ them if you had to pay them even minimum wage. You might have an employee who over the course of one eight hour shift is able to assemble three kits, something it would take you or me less than a minute to do. But the thought is that the participation in the employment setting is beneficial to the disabled persons.

    The second point of contention I raise is the one of fair competition. One of the members of my golf league owns a professional cleaning company, and is basically in competition with my other friend for cleaning business in commercial buildings. He says that he simply can't compete with the prices charged by the non-profit, primarily because of the difference in wages, his primary expense.

    Honestly, I haven't decided whether this is a good thing or a bad thing.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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    • Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

      Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
      The first is the idea of paying someone what might amount to a buck an hour for working. He makes the counter argument that due to the severe disability of some of the employees, you literally could not employ them if you had to pay them even minimum wage. You might have an employee who over the course of one eight hour shift is able to assemble three kits, something it would take you or me less than a minute to do.
      I have sympathy with this but I would also point out that general principle is violated all the time in business. I'll take myself as an example just because I'm familiar. In my job I do lots of different tasks and one of them is to compose long, detailed synopses of plans and policies for lay audiences. Because of who is attracted to my particular business line, this is something that takes most of my position peers hours and hours to do. Because of my particular skill imbalances (which include, for example, having a lot of trouble understanding mechanical devices more complicated than a fork), I can do it in minutes. Very few minutes. The difference in productivity on that task relative to ordinary co-workers is on the order of the difference you cited between you and a severely disabled person. To some extent this affects our relative pay, but nothing near the order of magnitude of productivity we're talking about. So that tells me the general principle being appealed to by your friend is not bulletproof.

      I would think the solution for the non-profit case is pretty obvious, actually: given that employing disabled people is an unalloyed good for reasons ranging from the sociological to psychological to moral to just plain not being a dick, the government should fund a non-trivial portion of the difference in productivity by allowing the non-profit to quantify hours and productivity lost and refunding them the difference. That would make everybody happy except a few minarchist jerks whose cranky unhappiness itself would make people even more happy!
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      • Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

        Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
        Obviously the heads of that particular non-profit are using their position to loot it for their own benefit, but I agree with your comments.

        I have a close friend who actually heads up a non-profit that seems to be very similar to the one described in the article, although I have no reason to believe that he is getting paid anything close to what those people took for themselves.

        The author of the article talked about the debate around the country about the wages paid to these workers, something that my friend has often described as "piece rate." He and I have gone round and round about the appropriateness of having these employees work for very little money.

        His non-profit focuses on two areas. They clean facilities, such as churches or office buildings or the like. They also do small packaging work. Basically where the workers are asked to assemble a kit of three or four items into a box and seal it up.

        There are two primary issues that I argue about with my friend. The first is the idea of paying someone what might amount to a buck an hour for working. He makes the counter argument that due to the severe disability of some of the employees, you literally could not employ them if you had to pay them even minimum wage. You might have an employee who over the course of one eight hour shift is able to assemble three kits, something it would take you or me less than a minute to do. But the thought is that the participation in the employment setting is beneficial to the disabled persons.

        The second point of contention I raise is the one of fair competition. One of the members of my golf league owns a professional cleaning company, and is basically in competition with my other friend for cleaning business in commercial buildings. He says that he simply can't compete with the prices charged by the non-profit, primarily because of the difference in wages, his primary expense.

        Honestly, I haven't decided whether this is a good thing or a bad thing.
        I used to work for Safeway (I know, not a non-profit), and they would allow each store to hire 1-2 disabled people and simply not count them against the stores target labor. They were regular unionized employees in every sense, the stores just got a little relief for hiring them. I think your friends practice is wrong, either pay people fairly or don't hire them. Even though he may not be raking it in, he is likely making money that should be going to the workers.

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        • Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

          Originally posted by jerphisch View Post
          I used to work for Safeway (I know, not a non-profit), and they would allow each store to hire 1-2 disabled people and simply not count them against the stores target labor. They were regular unionized employees in every sense, the stores just got a little relief for hiring them. I think your friends practice is wrong, either pay people fairly or don't hire them. Even though he may not be raking it in, he is likely making money that should be going to the workers.
          Our local supermarkets do this now. The people who actually bag at checkout are typically mid-range mentally handicapped. I have noticed that patrons treat them extremely well, and everybody leaves the store with a smile on their face. I shudder what it would be like in Philly, NYC, Boston, or one of the other "I'm-a-dick-to-prove-myself-hurr-hurr" hellholes farther north on the Acela corridor.
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          • Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

            Originally posted by walrus View Post
            http://bangordailynews.com/2017/07/1...t-six-figures/

            Got to love those non profits that treat their help like trash and make sure their executives are treated like kings
            Welcome to people gaming the system. Just like how the Clintons have a "charity" that is really a bribery slush fund. ALL non-profits should be audited.

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            • Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

              Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
              Welcome to people gaming the system. Just like how the Clintons have a "charity" that is really a bribery slush fund. ALL non-profits should be audited.
              Sources?

              Last fall, Charity Navigator, recognized for its work evaluating charitable organizations, gave the Clinton Foundation a four star rating, with an overall score of 94.74 out of a hundred. Charitywatch gave the Clinton Foundation an A rating while giving the Red Cross a rating of A-.

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              • Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

                Originally posted by burd View Post
                Sources?

                Last fall, Charity Navigator, recognized for its work evaluating charitable organizations, gave the Clinton Foundation a four star rating, with an overall score of 94.74 out of a hundred. Charitywatch gave the Clinton Foundation an A rating while giving the Red Cross a rating of A-.
                The whole 'CINTN FOUNDATION IS TEH DEVBIL!!11! an article of faith on the right. It was one of the things the Russians were loading Twitter and Facebook with before the election. A lot of the rubes bought it.
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                • Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

                  The Republicans disparagement of the Clinton Foundation is deplorable.
                  **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                  Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                  Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                  • Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

                    Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                    Welcome to people gaming the system. Just like how the Clintons have a "charity" that is really a bribery slush fund. ALL non-profits should be audited.
                    Here you go, dickwad: https://www.clintonfoundation.org/ab...ancial-reports

                    Cornell '04, Stanford '06


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                    • Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

                      Originally posted by burd View Post
                      Sources?
                      How about asking Haiti...

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                      • Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

                        Originally posted by burd View Post
                        Sources?

                        Last fall, Charity Navigator, recognized for its work evaluating charitable organizations, gave the Clinton Foundation a four star rating, with an overall score of 94.74 out of a hundred. Charitywatch gave the Clinton Foundation an A rating while giving the Red Cross a rating of A-.
                        Look I realize you live in WI so you are bored off your butt but dont engage and certainly dont quote...
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                        • Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

                          Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                          Look I realize you live in WI so you are bored off your butt but dont engage and certainly dont quote...
                          Such an easy sin to avoid too.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

                            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                            That is a fantastic article. The reporter should win something.

                            But please don't tar and heather all non-profits just because this one appears to have been run by crooks for awhile. Most of them are run by really good people who are essentially donating their time.
                            You are probably right, especially the rank and file but I have a hard time with ********s who steal money from the folks that they are supposedly helping.
                            I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

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                            • Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

                              Originally posted by walrus View Post
                              You are probably right, especially the rank and file but I have a hard time with ********s who steal money from the folks that they are supposedly helping.
                              Well of course. So do I.
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                              • Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

                                9 year old girl shows up to city council, asks to speak, and gets muzzled.

                                http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/s...ing/476463001/

                                Two board members have since apologized to the young girl.
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