DEAD!! All right, who died now?

[joecct]

John L. Sullivan?
Jim Thorpe?
Babe Ruth?

Ruth saved baseball
Palmer saved golf

Looking ahead..
Bill Russell?
Wayne Gretzky???

[French Rage]

Re: DEAD!! All right, who died now?

And Arnold Palmer oddly gets a 30 second mention on The Simpsons tonight.

[Spartanforlife4]

And Arnold Palmer oddly gets a 30 second mention on The Simpsons tonight.

Talk about coincidence. I hardly ever watch The Simpsons anymore, tuned in randomly for about three minutes tonight, heard the reference, and within ten minutes heard about his death.

[The Rube]

Re: DEAD!! All right, who died now?

Ruth saved baseball
Palmer saved golf

Looking ahead..
Bill Russell?
Wayne Gretzky???

Well, Howe is still greater than Gretzky for the "face" of the sport, IMO. And that is NOT a knock on Wayne, not one bit.

For bouncyball.....Jordan, I think, will be the BIG one.

[Chuck Murray]

Re: DEAD!! All right, who died now?

John L. Sullivan?
Jim Thorpe?
Babe Ruth?

Sullivan and Thorpe (in his prime) pre-dated radio sports, and Ruth pre-dated TV. I know, I was there.

Palmer was the first athlete who was appointment viewing on a regular basis. Timing was on his side, no doubt, but I can only think of Magic Johnson as another athlete since Palmer who radiated the same extroverted (but modest) charisma, the thrill of victory and agony of defeat, and captured the imagination of the masses with his style of play. Not surprisingly, both excelled off the course/court in their business and humanitarian endeavors.

Ali had the charisma, style, and the amazing humanitarian side probably above all, but in his prime he boxed 3-4 times a year tops, and sometimes you could only see him on closed circuit or replays weeks/months after the fact.

Gordie Howe and Bobby Orr are my hockey idols, but the sport never got the coverage golf did during their times, and both preferred to avoid the limelight. Jack Nicklaus and (arguably) Gary Player were technically better golfers who amassed more majors during the same era Palmer played, but they were not beloved by the masses. I'm not sure Palmer (or Ali) sought out the spotlight - it just happened to follow them, which really was their magic.

[Kepler]

Re: DEAD!! All right, who died now?

Ruth saved baseball
Palmer saved golf

Looking ahead..
Bill Russell?
Wayne Gretzky???

Well, for "saved" read "transformed" or "ruined" depending on your values. The athletes who made their respective professional sports into national media cash cows were Sullivan, Ruth, Palmer, whoever did it for Canada in hockey (Rocket Richard maybe?), Wilt and... I dunno actually. Red Grange maybe?

[SonofSouthie]

Re: DEAD!! All right, who died now?

Country singer Jean Shepard.

http://www.tennessean.com/story/ente...d-82/76568704/

[RENCEB]

Re: DEAD!! All right, who died now?

The first (and arguably most impactful) high profile sports athlete, and an amazing human being too.

I knew where you were going with this. The embodiment of "duende". Read "Arnie and Jack" to get an understanding of his impact, especially on televised sports.

[Chuck Murray]

Re: DEAD!! All right, who died now?

I knew where you were going with this. The embodiment of "duende". Read "Arnie and Jack" to get an understanding of his impact, especially on televised sports.

Terrific book, fun read, lots of great little-known insights into how two of the greatest got that way.

Well, for "saved" read "transformed" or "ruined" depending on your values. The athletes who made their respective professional sports into national media cash cows were Sullivan, Ruth, Palmer, whoever did it for Canada in hockey (Rocket Richard maybe?), Wilt and... I dunno actually. Red Grange maybe?

Actually, yeah, you nailed it with Red Grange (and most of the rest too). I'd put Dempsey as the transformative boxer over Sullivan, only because the pre-1920's media consisted mainly of telegraphs and (mostly local) newspapers. But I can see both sides of that debate.

Hockey-wise, that's a tough call from the Canadian side, but I name I've heard a lot in that context before Richard was Howie Morenz. Otherwise, I'd suggest that while Bobby Orr didn't necessarily spawn the first round of NHL expansion, his arrival did see the NHL expand as a media presence in the US exponentially, and I think you can chalk up the subsequent expansions AND the arrival of the WHA to the boom that followed the Orr era.

I really don't think Wilt, Russell, or anyone of that era moved the needle for pro hoops. It's hard to think of the NBA being a distant 4th among the major North American sports leagues, but that's where they were for quite awhile. I think Dr. J started to grab the attention and scratch the surface of the potential growth of the sport - his presence pretty much drove the NBA-ABA merger - but then afterwards, it was the Magic/Bird era that finally got the NBA on prime time, and Jordan took things to the next level after that.

Tiger Woods is the only guy in the discussion with Palmer, but while his "duende" had left him before he turned 40 (sadly never to return) Palmer retained his through the rest of his life. And the last major he won was in 1964. That's some staying power, and that's amazing.

[SonofSouthie]

Re: DEAD!! All right, who died now?

Terrific book, fun read, lots of great little-known insights into how two of the greatest got that way.



Actually, yeah, you nailed it with Red Grange (and most of the rest too). I'd put Dempsey as the transformative boxer over Sullivan, only because the pre-1920's media consisted mainly of telegraphs and (mostly local) newspapers. But I can see both sides of that debate.

Hockey-wise, that's a tough call from the Canadian side, but I name I've heard a lot in that context before Richard was Howie Morenz. Otherwise, I'd suggest that while Bobby Orr didn't necessarily spawn the first round of NHL expansion, his arrival did see the NHL expand as a media presence in the US exponentially, and I think you can chalk up the subsequent expansions AND the arrival of the WHA to the boom that followed the Orr era.

I really don't think Wilt, Russell, or anyone of that era moved the needle for pro hoops. It's hard to think of the NBA being a distant 4th among the major North American sports leagues, but that's where they were for quite awhile. I think Dr. J started to grab the attention and scratch the surface of the potential growth of the sport - his presence pretty much drove the NBA-ABA merger - but then afterwards, it was the Magic/Bird era that finally got the NBA on prime time, and Jordan took things to the next level after that.

Tiger Woods is the only guy in the discussion with Palmer, but while his "duende" had left him before he turned 40 (sadly never to return) Palmer retained his through the rest of his life. And the last major he won was in 1964. That's some staying power, and that's amazing.

I'd put Dempsey as the transformative boxer over Sullivan

I'd put Gentleman Jim Corbett over both of them. Changed boxing from a brawl to the sweet science.

[Kepler]

Re: DEAD!! All right, who died now?

I'd put Gentleman Jim Corbett over both of them. Changed boxing from a brawl to the sweet science.

Also portrayed by Errol Flynn, which is enough to put anybody into the Hotness HOF just by reflected glory.

[theprofromdover]

Re: DEAD!! All right, who died now?

Jack Kirrane, USA Captain for the original Miracle on Ice Olympic in 1960.

[joecct]

Jack Kirrane, USA goalie for the original Miracle on Ice Olympic in 1960.

I think he was the Captain, not the goalie.

[CLS]

Re: DEAD!! All right, who died now?

I think he was the Captain, not the goalie.

Goalie was Jack McCartan. Kirrane sounds right for the captain.

[theprofromdover]

Re: DEAD!! All right, who died now?

I think he was the Captain, not the goalie.

Fixed. My bad.