Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

[Bonin21]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

The ones that want to keep the gentleman's agreement are the ones that are scared the big schools will steal from them when the kid turns into something everybody wants. Sorry! There's a reason we still call SCSU Jan Brady State University. "Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!" You can whine all you want about a lost recruit but it won't change what happened. You're doing fine on the ice. Enjoy it.

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Why don't you trolls just stick to your own teams thread? And you said you don't want to argue then just keep going on and on.

Dan you might despise what Monty did, but I'm sure you love the results and the winning at DU. If you truly despise it so much you should stand by your principals and give up your season tickets.

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Putting aside for the moment whether Oseicki is a shady recruiter or not, coaches who do recruit using shady tactics continue to do so for one reason - because they can get away with it. Every year there is a fresh batch of recruits, who believe getting a scholarship pulled is something that will never happen to them. If they, or their parents, do ask about the coaches' history it is brushed aside as that past recruit not living up to their end of the bargain and it will never happen to the current prospect! The idea that coaches end up paying the price for these tactics is another recruiting myth, quite frankly. And I don't say this as a spiteful, rival fan - just as someone who takes an interest in, and understands, recruiting tactics and processes. Ive also made clear, in this very thread, what I think of UNH manipulating NLIs...



Jim Montgomery may not acknowledge the gentlemen's agreement (and as a DU season ticket holder, I despise what he did), but it sure seems like Bob Motzko does. The practice of respecting another school's commitments remains in place in the eyes of 90% of college hockey coaches. The ones pushing to remove the agreement - because they care so deeply about the wrongs of early recruiting (cough, cough Bulls...) - are the ones who don't want to be bad mouthed when they poach recruits. This is more rationalization for the bad behavior in the business. As for your plan for early departures amongst the D-corp, etc. If thats how it plays out then there are no problems, but thats not how its played out for more than a few UW recruits.

Again, we all know whats happening. If you're OK with it, thats fine. But the sky is blue, don't tell me its green...

Quite the historian on UW recruiting and guys going pro early. You might actually trying doing some research on Oz's first go around at UW....hint more guys he brought in on D went pro early then sniffed a 4th year (and I am talking about actual recruited scholarship dmen although the track record of partial scholarship/depth guys is also pretty impressive).

[Dan]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Why don't you trolls just stick to your own teams thread? And you said you don't want to argue then just keep going on and on.

Dan you might despise what Monty did, but I'm sure you love the results and the winning at DU. If you truly despise it so much you should stand by your principals and give up your season tickets.

Because I find this to be an interesting topic and enjoy the conversation. You don't need to respond, others have. If I wanted to troll or argue, believe me I could troll...

As for my principals, I'm not a DU fan (or SCSU). I'm just a season ticket holder. I live in Denver and enjoy college hockey - even outside of my own teams threads! If I lived in Madison, I'd be a UW season ticket holder - despite Oseicki leading the recruiting (oops, trolling!)...

[Dan]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Quite the historian on UW recruiting and guys going pro early. You might actually trying doing some research on Oz's first go around at UW....hint more guys he brought in on D went pro early then sniffed a 4th year (and I am talking about actual recruited scholarship dmen although the track record of partial scholarship/depth guys is also pretty impressive).

I believe you. And as I said, if thats how it works out this time than there is no problem for the D. I wasn't talking about Oz's first go around, when I said thats not how it played out for others...

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Because I find this to be an interesting topic and enjoy the conversation. You don't need to respond, others have. If I wanted to troll or argue, believe me I could troll...

As for my principals, I'm not a DU fan (or SCSU). I'm just a season ticket holder. I live in Denver and enjoy college hockey - even outside of my own teams threads! If I lived in Madison, I'd be a UW season ticket holder - despite Oseicki leading the recruiting (oops, trolling!)...

I think you guys come here to cut the program down at UW in hopes of 1 getting a reaction (ie trolling) and 2 trying to get a dig on the program that makes it way to recruits. I don't appreciate it when I come here to find out who has signed their NLI or recruits that give a verbal. Start your own thread on the topic if you "enjoy the conversation" so much.

[Dan]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

I think you guys come here to cut the program down at UW in hopes of 1 getting a reaction (ie trolling) and 2 trying to get a dig on the program that makes it way to recruits. I don't appreciate it when I come here to find out who has signed their NLI or recruits that give a verbal. Start your own thread on the topic if you "enjoy the conversation" so much.

Ahh, you are mistaken. I do not care about your reaction or getting your goat. I am interested in college hockey, recruiting, where kids are going, what future teams will look like and what recruiting approaches are and are not working - I'll offer my two cents where I please. If knowledgeable posters like markwojo or solovsfett (who I respect) or others wish to respond, I'm eager to have a discussion. My posts are easy to pass over and ignore. I know kids are committing to Wisconsin quite often these days, but I'll bet you won't miss any just because I've joined the conversation...

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Haha, you think awfully highly of yourself if you think I care about your reaction or getting your goat. I am interested in college hockey, recruiting, where kids are going, what future teams will look like and what recruiting approaches are and are not working - I'll offer my two cents where I please. If knowledgeable posters like markwojo or solovsfett (who I respect) or others wish to respond, I'm eager to have a discussion. My posts are easy to pass over and ignore. I know kids are committing to Wisconsin quite often these days, but I'll bet you won't miss any just because I've joined the conversation...

I don't think highly of myself. You obviously do thinking you are the expert, can come here and rip our recruiting, and call it conversation while saying you don't want to argue, but then can't keep your mouth shut and argue post after post. We have two pages of you and the other clown lemonade ripping the program instead of reporting on who are the the future recruits and what they are doing where they are now, which is what this thread is for.

Again, if you want to talk general college hockey recruiting, start your own thread on the topic.

[Dan]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

I don't think highly of myself. You obviously do thinking you are the expert, can come here and rip our recruiting, and call it conversation while saying you don't want to argue, but then can't keep your mouth shut and argue post after post. We have two pages of you and the other clown lemonade ripping the program instead of reporting on who are the the future recruits and what they are doing where they are now, which is what this thread is for.

Again, if you want to talk general college hockey recruiting, start your own thread on the topic.

Boy, I would hate to bump another team's thread off the front page and cost them the chance to learn about the favorite team or recruits. Maybe its best we keep this conversation confined to one spot.

Wojo - and I mean this sincerely and curiously - what do you think happens to your spreadsheet if one of your projected professional departures does not progress as expected while at UW and stays four years? Who gets deferred? In your analysis of Oz's first tenure did all the defensemen develop as expected? Does he coach D as well as he recruits them? Did you ever feel that any defenseman were encouraged to turn pro to make room for the next wave of commitments? How many, if any players (F & D) decommitted when he recruited for UW the first time? I'm asking with no judgement. I am not a historian on his first tenure and I'm open to your further explanation on the how current recruiting lines-up with the last line-up and might indicate I am wrong.

I am especially interested now and, for some reason, I kind of want to stick around...

[digitalbooya]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

So Wisconsin has a 38 recruited man roster for 2020-2021 (24 forwards, 11 Defense, 1 goalie and will need 2 more) now...

Looking at the spreadsheet it's 34 recruits for that year (22 forwards, 11 defensemen, 1 goaltender). There are 28 players on the roster this year. Gophers have 28 as well. Denver 25. So one could assume that having 28 players would be okay at that time. Note the flight risk players: Weissbach, Ranta, Turcotte, Kalynuk, Inamoto, Ess, Miller, Emberson and Smith. Those are just players that could leave early based on my opinion. Never mind injuries or decommitments. Players that are not good enough won't make it on the team or will be pushed back. That's the nature of the beast.

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Boy, I would hate to bump another team's thread off the front page and cost them the chance to learn about the favorite team or recruits. Maybe its best we keep this conversation confined to one spot.

Wojo - and I mean this sincerely and curiously - what do you think happens to your spreadsheet if one of your projected professional departures does not progress as expected while at UW and stays four years? Who gets deferred? In your analysis of Oz's first tenure did all the defensemen develop as expected? Does he coach D as well as he recruits them? Did you ever feel that any defenseman were encouraged to turn pro to make room for the next wave of commitments? How many, if any players (F & D) decommitted when he recruited for UW the first time? I'm asking with no judgement. I am not a historian on his first tenure and I'm open to your further explanation on the how current recruiting lines-up with the last line-up and might indicate I am wrong.

I am especially interested now and, for some reason, I kind of want to stick around...

I'm not banking on every guy that might leave early leaving early for things to work out, but rather one or two out of several possibilities (that fit a profile of historically leaving early). No Peltonen means the spreadsheet becomes 10 not 11. Roepke to this point doesn't have a pedigree that says playing high level D1 in his 18 year old season without a season of post high school junior (he's only 16...so plenty of development and certainly a chance he comes as a true 18 year old frosh). But no Roepke makes in 9. Kalynuk/Ess/Inamoto as drafted seniors and Miller as a 1st/2nd rounder junior fit a profile of guys that historically don't play that senior or junior year a fair percentage of the time. That's not even getting into Emberson and the Krygier's have most of their predraft season of development and as is are likely mid round draft picks as B rated skaters. If just 2 of Kalynuk/Ess/Inamoto/Miller leave early, you are at 7 which means you are bringing Roepke (ready or not) or searching for a late bloomer for depth.

Oz's first run certainly benefited from phenomenal recruiting. The 2010 national runner up team had a d of all 1st or second round draft picks except for Ramage who was a 4th rounder himself (I don't think any team has ever had something like that). To Oz's coaching and development, being drafted high doesn't mean even making it to the NHL and his guys made it and at a high percentage and at the top end of the spectrum at that. His best coaching was probably done after abruptly losing Suter (after classes had started that fall) and a couple years later having a grouping of sophomores that weren't highly recruited be significant contributors to the 2006 title team (none of Drewiske, Piskula, or Engel were drafted or highly regarded coming in, but 2 ended up playing in the NHL and a decent amount at that).

[Lemonade]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Looking at the spreadsheet it's 34 recruits for that year (22 forwards, 11 defensemen, 1 goaltender). There are 28 players on the roster this year. Gophers have 28 as well. Denver 25. So one could assume that having 28 players would be okay at that time. Note the flight risk players: Weissbach, Ranta, Turcotte, Kalynuk, Inamoto, Ess, Miller, Emberson and Smith. Those are just players that could leave early based on my opinion. Never mind injuries or decommitments. Players that are not good enough won't make it on the team or will be pushed back. That's the nature of the beast.

Actually you need to add an additional 2 for goalies so that brings it to 36 on forecasted roster for 20-21. That also implies they add no other recruits to that class over the next 3 years. I believe thats the most recruits in the country and is at least worthy of an educated discussion on their recruiting strategy.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Actually you need to add an additional 2 for goalies so that brings it to 36 on forecasted roster for 20-21. That also implies they add no other recruits to that class over the next 3 years. I believe thats the most recruits in the country and is at least worthy of an educated discussion on their recruiting strategy.

Actually, we dress 20-21.

Currently, we have 28 on our roster.


I don't care if non-UW people want to post in UW threads, but it does seem like the educated discussion you want to have is more suited for it's own thread.

Maybe, in an educated way, you'll want to cite other examples and other programs. That wouldn't belong here.

[Lemonade]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Actually, we dress 20-21.

Currently, we have 28 on our roster.


I don't care if non-UW people want to post in UW threads, but it does seem like the educated discussion you want to have is more suited for it's own thread.

Maybe, in an educated way, you'll want to cite other examples and other programs. That wouldn't belong here.

Pretty sure if you want to discuss Wisconsin recruiting - the Wisconsin Recruiting thread would be the place.

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Actually you need to add an additional 2 for goalies so that brings it to 36 on forecasted roster for 20-21. That also implies they add no other recruits to that class over the next 3 years. I believe thats the most recruits in the country and is at least worthy of an educated discussion on their recruiting strategy.

LOL...try harder UNH troll boy. You do realize UNH has a roster of 29 players this season? You want to try soooo hard to make every point that fits with your narrative (ie...potential other recruits in the next 3 years and yes Max Rizzo can come to Madison for a year or two if he wants to) while completely ignoring ANY explanation of roster and recruit attrition. Here's the difference (one of them) between UNH and UW (with grown ups running the program now)....Dicky U has upgraded the roster to a whopping 5 kids that have been drafted...UW has 9 and I would guess somewhere in the neighborhood of a dozen next season depending on what guys leave early and how incoming kids do in their draft year season. When you bring in higher end talent, it leaves early and needs to be replaced...preferably with more high end talent rather then hoping and praying you can find some miracle late bloomer when (not if) kids leave before their eligibility is exhausted.