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Thread: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

  1. #521
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    Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

    Quote Originally Posted by gwhinwi View Post
    Spreadsheet updated again.

    It's getting crazy right now. They have to be projecting a large number of Eaves recruits not coming and players leaving early.
    Counting the Caufield brothers that are said to have committed - is that correct with 37 players committed or on roster in 2020? Need two more goalies and you are looking at 39. Ethically is Wisconsin OK with this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonade View Post
    Counting the Caufield brothers that are said to have committed - is that correct with 37 players committed or on roster in 2020? Need two more goalies and you are looking at 39. Ethically is Wisconsin OK with this?
    I can't believe they can carry much more than about 26 kids annually, 16 f, 8d and 2 g without incurring significant blowback. It's terrible optics so i'm hoping they've decided to go a different direction and eaves' recruits are off the list hitch should clear the picture significantly.

    also how does Rizzo fit in all this if he verbals?

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    Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

    Quote Originally Posted by solovsfett View Post
    I can't believe they can carry much more than about 26 kids annually, 16 f, 8d and 2 g without incurring significant blowback. It's terrible optics so i'm hoping they've decided to go a different direction and eaves' recruits are off the list hitch should clear the picture significantly.

    also how does Rizzo fit in all this if he verbals?
    They might be starting to stretch to 27 or 28 players at this point. You can offer 2/3rd scholarships to all players and still have 27 on the roster. You could even push to 30 if you offered 3/5th to each, but again you're starting to push it.

    This is a dangerous game of trying to balance players leaving early with so many commitments.

  4. #524
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    Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonade View Post
    Counting the Caufield brothers that are said to have committed - is that correct with 37 players committed or on roster in 2020? Need two more goalies and you are looking at 39. Ethically is Wisconsin OK with this?
    There is no official confirmation on this yet, pump the brakes on that. I do want them, but let's not get too far ahead. It is interesting that these 2 just committed on the heels of the Caufield bros becoming available. Maybe the 2 commitments are related to this event. Perhaps they had the open offers and now said "oh crap, I better sign on now or else."
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    Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

    Right now there are 18F 19-20. Frederic will be gone, Dooghe and Weissback will probably be gone too, so 15 F isn't crazy for a year. For 2021 Peltonen and Rampa will probably be gone, so that gets 20-21 down to 14F.

    We have to bear in mind that Granato's going to push guys to leave instead of begging them to stay. He's viewing UW as an NHL factory. This is a very new way to run a college hockey team.
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    Originally Posted by Wisko McBadgerton:
    "Baggot says Hughes and Rockwood are centering the top two lines...
    Timothy A --> Great hockey mind... Or Greatest hockey mind?!?"

  6. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    Right now there are 18F 19-20. Frederic will be gone, Dooghe and Weissback will probably be gone too, so 15 F isn't crazy for a year. For 2021 Peltonen and Rampa will probably be gone, so that gets 20-21 down to 14F.

    We have to bear in mind that Granato's going to push guys to leave instead of begging them to stay. He's viewing UW as an NHL factory. This is a very new way to run a college hockey team.
    That's a nice theory until he tries to talk a talent into staying another year because it would really help the program. Or a talent decides he wants to stay an extra season and Granato happily accepts. Then, like at DU this season (Gambrell/Munson), someone gets a scholarship, and potentially a roster spot, yanked for no fault of their own...

    And with this level of recruiting it's going to happen a lot more often than once in a while...
    Last edited by Dan; 10-12-2017 at 01:12 PM.

  7. #527
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    Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    That's a nice theory until he tries to talk a talent into staying another year because it would really help the program.
    I truly believe he will not do that based on everything I've heard him say about player development. Sure it doesn't mean that won't happen, but it's extremely unlikely based on what he said. It's pretty obvious he is recruiting based on that. Also, if the program's success is based on whether 1 player leaves early or not, then Granato has failed as a recruiter.
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    Originally Posted by Wisko McBadgerton:
    "Baggot says Hughes and Rockwood are centering the top two lines...
    Timothy A --> Great hockey mind... Or Greatest hockey mind?!?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    That's a nice theory until he tries to talk a talent into staying another year because it would really help the program. Or a talent decides he wants to stay an extra season and Granato happily accepts. Then, like at DU this season (Gambrell/Munson), someone gets a scholarship, and potentially a roster spot, yanked for no fault of their own...

    And with this level of recruiting it's going to happen a lot more often than once in a while...
    With this number of recruits, it's a matter of if and not when. All I can think is that either Granato doesn't care because this is a short term gig, or his inexperience in the recruiting aspect is showing. If so, he'll learn. Just might be the hard way.

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    Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

    Quote Originally Posted by mnstate0fhockey View Post
    With this number of recruits, it's a matter of if and not when. All I can think is that either Granato doesn't care because this is a short term gig, or his inexperience in the recruiting aspect is showing. If so, he'll learn. Just might be the hard way.
    What Granato is doing is blowing your mind, it's unconventional now, it's just a question as to when all the other big dogs copy the script.
    Wisconsin Hockey: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 WE WANT MORE!
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    Originally Posted by Wisko McBadgerton:
    "Baggot says Hughes and Rockwood are centering the top two lines...
    Timothy A --> Great hockey mind... Or Greatest hockey mind?!?"

  10. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    What Granato is doing is blowing your mind, it's unconventional now, it's just a question as to when all the other big dogs copy the script.
    This is not the first coach/program to heavily over recruit in hockey or across many other NCAA sports. He's just the latest. There's a reason these tactics and early recruiting have been such topics of debate for so long...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mnstate0fhockey View Post
    With this number of recruits, it's a matter of if and not when. All I can think is that either Granato doesn't care because this is a short term gig, or his inexperience in the recruiting aspect is showing. If so, he'll learn. Just might be the hard way.
    To be fair this is Oseicki's MO. He had tons of prospects lined up in his first stint and this one is the same but perhaps even more intense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    What Granato is doing is blowing your mind, it's unconventional now, it's just a question as to when all the other big dogs copy the script.
    He's not breaking new ground, and it never ends well. You becone the coach kids aren't sure they can trust to keep his commitment.

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    Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

    I'm not trying to disparage any Badger recruits/commits, but the last two commits and the older Caufield (IF the Cuafield's even end up as Badger commits) are in state guys that probably are not going to move the needle in terms of scholarship dollars much between the 3 of them. Nothing in those 3 resumes is saying high end D1 significant scholarship. Every good team needs depth and guys that contribute w/o a ton of scholarship dollars, and I like a refocus of the staff at getting some instate guys who probably have a passion for wearing the Badger sweater. You can argue about having to many guys around and playing time opportunity, but there is another shoe to fall and I firmly believe it will be Eaves forward commit(s) ultimately seeking greener pastures which the staff probably already knows. Kids are always quick to tweet when they have committed, but when their development and progress slows and it becomes pretty obvious their initial plans will not come to fruition...the next tweet will be when there is a plan B lined up.

    Rizzo is a one year (2 if you are extremely lucky) hiccup you work through if you are fortunate to have that problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markwojo View Post
    I'm not trying to disparage any Badger recruits/commits, but the last two commits and the older Caufield (IF the Cuafield's even end up as Badger commits) are in state guys that probably are not going to move the needle in terms of scholarship dollars much between the 3 of them. Nothing in those 3 resumes is saying high end D1 significant scholarship. Every good team needs depth and guys that contribute w/o a ton of scholarship dollars, and I like a refocus of the staff at getting some instate guys who probably have a passion for wearing the Badger sweater. You can argue about having to many guys around and playing time opportunity, but there is another shoe to fall and I firmly believe it will be Eaves forward commit(s) ultimately seeking greener pastures which the staff probably already knows. Kids are always quick to tweet when they have committed, but when their development and progress slows and it becomes pretty obvious their initial plans will not come to fruition...the next tweet will be when there is a plan B lined up.

    Rizzo is a one year (2 if you are extremely lucky) hiccup you work through if you are fortunate to have that problem.
    Josh Bohlin is a 3.75 out of 5 star recruit and Jack Gorniak is a 4.25 star out of 5 recruit according to Neutral Zone's scouting ratings. The younger Caufield, by my guess, is a 4+ star recruit as well.

    Granted, this is just one outlet's ratings, but I think it is a stretch to imagine that none of these kids were promised scholarship money (if all have verbally committed to UW).

    It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out, but this staff's recruiting has gone from aggressive to just plain insane. I can't see any way all of these kids end up at UW.

    I think every program out there would like to stock pile commitments to hedge against kids not developing, but they need to remember recruiting is a two-way street. Kids are looking out for their own interests as much as coaches are looking out for the program's.

    If a kid is deciding between UW and a few other big schools, commits to UW, then gets their scholarship yanked or is pushed back a few years. They may find the other schools who had interest before don't have room or aren't interested anymore. That can lead to A LOT of resentment and a lot of bad press for the program yanking a ton of scholarships or roster spots.

    Near the end of Doug Woog's tenure he had a horrible reputation for yanking scholarships from kid's last minute and I think it was really hurting him on the recruiting trail. He lost out on a number of big recruits near the end of his tenure with Minnesota that I think he normally would have landed.

    For some of these coaches it's just that they are naive to the recruiting dynamics, but with some of them it's arrogance. It always seems to come back and bite them though. How badly it comes back to bite them depends on how long and how often they do it.

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    Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

    Disclaimer – I’m not a D1 college coach nor have I been out on the recruiting trail.

    While I don’t think it’s ethical, or very nice, I find it a little hard to believe that pushing back recruits or even backing out hurts recruiting that much. We’re talking about early teenage boys here. When they hear about other recruits that got forced out I gotta believe they’re saying “that’s not going to be me I’m the best thing since sliced bread.” I suppose their parents may be getting in their ear, but if the team in question is kicking butt they will still want to go there.

    You say you think this kind of over recruiting hurt Minnesota under Woog. I don’t recall how things ended under the end of the Woog era, even though I’ve been around that long, but I assume the team wasn’t up to Minnesota standards as far as wins?

    We could say the same thing about the end of the Eaves and Sauer eras, they weren’t getting the recruits they normally should have been getting. It didn’t have anything to do with over recruiting, the teams were bad and it seemed the coaches were no longer able to produce.
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    Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

    If Frederic turns pro and 2 of the 4 remaining Eaves forward recruits aren't brought in UW is at 15 forwards next year. If all 4 of the Eaves forward recruits are not brought in and Frederic leaves after this year 2 guys from the 19-20 recruiting cycle get moved up to 18-19 and the whole spreadsheet looks great for the next 4 years. I think the Minnesota guys are hyperventilating when we don't even know the facts.

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    Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

    If you add the Caufields, you'll clearly see you've overrecruited for 19-20 and 20-21. There won't be room for about half the forward recruits currently lined up. Maybe it's genius. We'll see.

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    Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonin21 View Post
    If you add the Caufields, you'll clearly see you've overrecruited for 19-20 and 20-21. There won't be room for about half the forward recruits currently lined up. Maybe it's genius. We'll see.
    Not alone. Michigan has 6 D recruits for next fall.

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    Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

    They could lose 5 D

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