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Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

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  • Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

    I hope like hell he gets drafted by the USHL and gets out of high school hockey as soon as he is 16.

    EDIT: Tim, how many "Esox Masquinongy" have you boated so far this year?
    Last edited by MadCityRich; 05-30-2017, 10:32 PM.
    "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." Vince Lombardi

    "License to kill gophers by the government of the United Nations. Man; free to kill gophers at will. To kill, you must know your enemy, and in this case, my enemy is a varmint....and a varmint will never quit...ever. They're like Viet Cong...Varmint Cong, so you have to fall back on superior intelligence and superior firepower...and that's all she wrote. Au revoir, gopher." Karl Spackler 1980

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    • Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

      Originally posted by MadCityRich View Post
      I hope like hell he gets drafted by the USHL and gets out of high school hockey as soon as he is 16.

      EDIT: Tim, how many "Esox Masquinongy" have you boated so far this year?
      On Waubesa I caught a 24" whopper opening weekend that T-boned a shallow raider at boatside and my daughter got a 47" opening day with the help of her brothers on a pink and white beetle spin on a 5-6 rod with 8# test. That was quite the intense battle, but we got it in the boat.

      I've been pounding a local lake here in Dodge County that I know they are in and I am very determined to pull one out of this lake this year. So far "only" nice pike and largemouth bass to show for the effort, still lots of fun to catch.

      We've been reading books by Gelb, Heiting/Saric and doing lunar phase targeted periods as much as we can with work of course getting in the way, though local weather seems to be trumping lunar phase when we are out.

      Have you been out on the hunt for the toothy critters?
      Wisconsin Hockey: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 WE WANT MORE!
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Come to the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
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      Originally Posted by Wisko McBadgerton:
      "Baggot says Hughes and Rockwood are centering the top two lines...
      Timothy A --> Great hockey mind... Or Greatest hockey mind?!?"

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      • Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

        According to my count Wisconsin has a ridiculous 34 recruits from 2017-2020. There is going to be a lot of unhappy recruits very soon at Wisconsin - doesnt bode well for the reputation of the program either. Buckle up.

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        • Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

          Originally posted by Lemonade View Post
          According to my count Wisconsin has a ridiculous 34 recruits from 2017-2020. There is going to be a lot of unhappy recruits very soon at Wisconsin - doesnt bode well for the reputation of the program either. Buckle up.
          Not that different then elsewhere. Reality is that like at every school since the trend is to offer kids at 14, 15, or 16, some of those kids plateau in their development young and never end up a D1 player. There are a couple Eaves forward recruits I doubt ever see the inside of the Kohl without a ticket as they are playing in the NAHL as 19/20 year olds and not exactly tearing that level up. If people want to throw themselves on the floor and convulse that Eaves promised them a ride and G2O won't "honor" it for a player that is not D1 level....I'm pretty sure the Wisconsin "reputation" will survive.

          I would imagine you will see a guy or two on the current roster move on with eligibility left every year....pro opportunities, academics, getting into a scrape with a girlfriend, not fond of their place on the depth chart, etc. I would also imagine a recruit or two each year has a change of heart....OHL makes a generous offer and that is more attractive then college, they don't develop athletically and realize ice time won't be happening at UW and look elsewhere, they don't develop academically and can't get into UW, injuries, etc.

          If 2-3 of the Eaves forward recruits end up elsewhere (which I am fairly certain everyone directly involved probably has a good idea where they stand at this point), the Badgers are actually in pretty good shape for numbers going forward when you factor in the attrition you always see. I would rather have a year where you are surprised a high end kid stays an extra year and you have to push back a kid, then have a kid you were not expecting to move on go and have no one in the pipeline close to ready to contribute which is what happened more often under Eaves.

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          • Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

            Originally posted by markwojo View Post
            Not that different then elsewhere. Reality is that like at every school since the trend is to offer kids at 14, 15, or 16, some of those kids plateau in their development young and never end up a D1 player. There are a couple Eaves forward recruits I doubt ever see the inside of the Kohl without a ticket as they are playing in the NAHL as 19/20 year olds and not exactly tearing that level up. If people want to throw themselves on the floor and convulse that Eaves promised them a ride and G2O won't "honor" it for a player that is not D1 level....I'm pretty sure the Wisconsin "reputation" will survive.

            I would imagine you will see a guy or two on the current roster move on with eligibility left every year....pro opportunities, academics, getting into a scrape with a girlfriend, not fond of their place on the depth chart, etc. I would also imagine a recruit or two each year has a change of heart....OHL makes a generous offer and that is more attractive then college, they don't develop athletically and realize ice time won't be happening at UW and look elsewhere, they don't develop academically and can't get into UW, injuries, etc.

            If 2-3 of the Eaves forward recruits end up elsewhere (which I am fairly certain everyone directly involved probably has a good idea where they stand at this point), the Badgers are actually in pretty good shape for numbers going forward when you factor in the attrition you always see. I would rather have a year where you are surprised a high end kid stays an extra year and you have to push back a kid, then have a kid you were not expecting to move on go and have no one in the pipeline close to ready to contribute which is what happened more often under Eaves.
            Actually it is VERY different from elsewhere - other Big Ten recruits for 2017-2020 are 17, 17, 18, 20 and 22. Wisconsin is currently at 34 - double the amount of recruits. I totally get they are trying to rebuild the program and are offering at a very aggressive rate but this will eventually come to pay the piper at some point. They are overrecruiting and that will reflect negatively when they have to defer ore decommit a huge number of kids. Its also a huge red flag to any recruit coming up if they look at the numbers....

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            • Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

              Originally posted by Lemonade View Post
              Actually it is VERY different from elsewhere - other Big Ten recruits for 2017-2020 are 17, 17, 18, 20 and 22. Wisconsin is currently at 34 - double the amount of recruits. I totally get they are trying to rebuild the program and are offering at a very aggressive rate but this will eventually come to pay the piper at some point. They are overrecruiting and that will reflect negatively when they have to defer ore decommit a huge number of kids. Its also a huge red flag to any recruit coming up if they look at the numbers....
              I have to doubt that it is a red flag considering how many have committed in the last few months. I'm certain that these kids are looking at who has committed already and have decided to go there based on that.
              Wisconsin Hockey Recruiting spreadsheet (both Men's and Women's)

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              • Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

                Originally posted by gwhinwi View Post
                I have to doubt that it is a red flag considering how many have committed in the last few months. I'm certain that these kids are looking at who has committed already and have decided to go there based on that.
                So if you are a kids advisor are you are going to look at 34 recruits in the 2017-2020 time frame and say "hey Wisconsin looks like a great place to land".....you should be fired then. Its going to be a HUGE red flag to future recruits if they are looking at the numbers.
                Last edited by Lemonade; 05-31-2017, 09:25 AM.

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                • Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

                  Originally posted by Lemonade View Post
                  So if you are a kids advisor are you are going to look at 34 recruits in the 2017-2020 time frame and say "hey Wisconsin looks like a great place to land".....you should be fired then. Its going to be a HUGE red flag to future recruits if they are looking at the numbers.
                  Give it a few years and we'll see if you're right. I think this is going to tend to be the way that things go forward for other programs as well. Once you start seeing more and more 14 year olds committing to programs, you're going to see larger and larger recruiting commits for future years.
                  Wisconsin Hockey Recruiting spreadsheet (both Men's and Women's)

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                  • Originally posted by Lemonade View Post
                    So if you are a kids advisor are you are going to look at 34 recruits in the 2017-2020 time frame and say "hey Wisconsin looks like a great place to land".....you should be fired then. Its going to be a HUGE red flag to future recruits if they are looking at the numbers.
                    Do kids actually look at number of recruits? I would think the idea of playing for arguably the best coaching staff in college hockey sells itself. Former NHL coach. Guy who helped the likes of McDonagh, Smith, Schultz, etc into the NHL. And a guy who coached at the U.S. development program whom knows the top recruits looking to make the NHL.

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                    • Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

                      Originally posted by IndianaBadger1995 View Post
                      Do kids actually look at number of recruits? I would think the idea of playing for arguably the best coaching staff in college hockey sells itself. Former NHL coach. Guy who helped the likes of McDonagh, Smith, Schultz, etc into the NHL. And a guy who coached at the U.S. development program whom knows the top recruits looking to make the NHL.
                      They should be looking at the number of recruits as part of the big picture. Idea of playing and actually playing are totally different.

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                      • Originally posted by Lemonade View Post
                        They should be looking at the number of recruits as part of the big picture. Idea of playing and actually playing are totally different.
                        If they are truly good enough to make the NHL they will play. If they can't beat out some kids for a spot then it's in their best interest to either wait a year, transfer or not commit at all. The majority of the defense this past year isn't going to cut it. Guys like Linhart on the 1st pairing are reasons Wisconsin didn't go far. There are spots to be had right now and as others have mentioned, a lot of Eaves' recruits probably won't see the ice at the KC. How many of those 34 recruits are coming in next year compared to the other big ten schools? The year after? The year after that?

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                        • Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

                          Originally posted by Lemonade View Post
                          Actually it is VERY different from elsewhere - other Big Ten recruits for 2017-2020 are 17, 17, 18, 20 and 22. Wisconsin is currently at 34 - double the amount of recruits. I totally get they are trying to rebuild the program and are offering at a very aggressive rate but this will eventually come to pay the piper at some point. They are overrecruiting and that will reflect negatively when they have to defer ore decommit a huge number of kids. Its also a huge red flag to any recruit coming up if they look at the numbers....
                          So the other Big 10 programs are done recruiting for those years? Pretty sure 17, 17, 18, 20, and 22 will be increasing unless those teams are going to play 9-10 short. Most teams roster 15-17 forwards 8ish D, and 2-3 G. That on the low end is 25. Maybe G2O plan on having kids leave for the pros a little more frequently then some of their peers? Maybe a few of those programs have gone through some staff changes and haven't gotten after it on the recruiting trail that effectively? Weekend at Berenson's has been in his mid 70's for like a decade and turning over assistants. MSU has been in free fall for a while.

                          While 34 seems like a tremendous number, look at the projected recruiting charts someone around here does a great job of keeping updated. Subtract out a couple forward recruits (again I think that will sort itself out shortly) from next year going forward and the numbers look right on. The D look a guy or even two to heavy, but the reality is that that was the place where Eaves really dropped the ball and the level of guys he brought in just weren't where they should be at UW or honestly a D1 program. Jack Dougherty bailing after one season really exposed how poorly Eaves had recruited on D where we ended up with walkons and converted forwards playing D the last 2 seasons.

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                          • Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

                            Originally posted by markwojo View Post
                            So the other Big 10 programs are done recruiting for those years? Pretty sure 17, 17, 18, 20, and 22 will be increasing unless those teams are going to play 9-10 short. Most teams roster 15-17 forwards 8ish D, and 2-3 G. That on the low end is 25. Maybe G2O plan on having kids leave for the pros a little more frequently then some of their peers? Maybe a few of those programs have gone through some staff changes and haven't gotten after it on the recruiting trail that effectively? Weekend at Berenson's has been in his mid 70's for like a decade and turning over assistants. MSU has been in free fall for a while.

                            While 34 seems like a tremendous number, look at the projected recruiting charts someone around here does a great job of keeping updated. Subtract out a couple forward recruits (again I think that will sort itself out shortly) from next year going forward and the numbers look right on. The D look a guy or even two to heavy, but the reality is that that was the place where Eaves really dropped the ball and the level of guys he brought in just weren't where they should be at UW or honestly a D1 program. Jack Dougherty bailing after one season really exposed how poorly Eaves had recruited on D where we ended up with walkons and converted forwards playing D the last 2 seasons.
                            Except your numbers arent close to being correct - typically a senior class graduates and freshman class comes in to fill those spot. For example, Wisconsin had 5 seniors graduate this year - thus opening up 5 spots for incoming freshman. They have 8 recruits listed as 2017 so 3 will be deferred or will have to see if anyone else leaves. They have 7 juniors on squad and 11 2018 recruits lists + 3 leftovers from 2017 class so you are now at 7 kids hanging out in the wind.

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                            • Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

                              Originally posted by Lemonade View Post
                              Except your numbers arent close to being correct - typically a senior class graduates and freshman class comes in to fill those spot. For example, Wisconsin had 5 seniors graduate this year - thus opening up 5 spots for incoming freshman. They have 8 recruits listed as 2017 so 3 will be deferred or will have to see if anyone else leaves. They have 7 juniors on squad and 11 2018 recruits lists + 3 leftovers from 2017 class so you are now at 7 kids hanging out in the wind.
                              Next year, the forwards are right where they should be 15. If you look at GWHINWI's wonderful chart that he has been managing for us. You can see UW is 2 over the ideal number next year for D. Hurley played 18 games, Sexton played 13 games and Bunz 9 games. These 3 D returning will be fighting for ice with the D coming in. They possibly may not be on the roster at all. The following year 18/19, you can almost take off Sexton and Bunz as seniors. Tischke is a serious flight risk and Greenway also is a slight flight risk. That gets the number for 18/19 at 9 for D. For the forwards at 18/19, Bliss and Abate probably don't make it to campus and Frederic is a serious flight risk. That puts the number at 15.

                              If someone were to continue this through out the years, it really isn't as bad as it appears.

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                              • Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

                                Originally posted by Lemonade View Post
                                Except your numbers arent close to being correct - typically a senior class graduates and freshman class comes in to fill those spot. For example, Wisconsin had 5 seniors graduate this year - thus opening up 5 spots for incoming freshman. They have 8 recruits listed as 2017 so 3 will be deferred or will have to see if anyone else leaves. They have 7 juniors on squad and 11 2018 recruits lists + 3 leftovers from 2017 class so you are now at 7 kids hanging out in the wind.
                                It is nice that you care, but why do you care?
                                Why does someone who spends almost all of their time in BU and UNH threads care about UW recruiting? You jumped in a few months ago with the same comment and nobody seemed to care then
                                Originally posted by Lemonade View Post
                                PR hit? Wisconsin is in the red zone when it comes to over committing players now. They have a ton of verbal commits and that lends itself to having to back out on offers as you mentioned. Doing that kills your reputation in the hockey/advisor world and good luck getting kids to commit there when they have a poor reputation of how they treat verbal commits.
                                It looks like nobody seems to agree with you now.

                                Wisconsin is far from the only team with lots and lots of recruits on the books right now. Looking at the information from College Hockey Inc, there are 8 teams with 10 or less commits on the books.
                                University of Alaska-Fairbanks Nanooks 7
                                Ferris State University Bulldogs 7
                                University of Alabama-Huntsville Chargers 8
                                Robert Morris University Colonials 8
                                Northern Michigan University Wildcats 9
                                University of Nebraska-Omaha Mavericks 10
                                College of the Holy Cross Crusaders 10
                                Niagara University Purple Eagles 10

                                There are also 8 teams with more than 25
                                Michigan Tech University Huskies 26
                                Colorado College Tigers 26
                                Quinnipiac University Bobcats 27
                                University of Notre Dame Fighting Irish 27
                                University of Maine Black Bears 28
                                Harvard University Crimson 30
                                Northeastern University Huskies 31
                                University of Wisconsin Badgers 33

                                You can look at those teams and pretty clearly say that the second set of teams is better on the average than the first set of teams. Average winning % over the last 4 seasons for the first set (0.444) vs the second set (0.514) backs that up pretty clearly.

                                It has been said many times that there is a great deal of flux in the process of recruiting. Coaching staffs change and some players move around. Player development changes and players move around. Personal issues change and players move around. Good teams will attract good players, even (especially?) if they know that there is going to be competition.
                                Last edited by KaMiGo; 05-31-2017, 12:38 PM.

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