Gear Grinding 7: Really? This crap again?

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Truth

The thing that tipped me over the edge:

They read a news item about some woman who pre-paid her mortgage, insurance, etc. then set a simple stipend for food and toiletries and otherwise didn't spend any money last year.

The hosts, one of them in particular, was somehow offended. She kept going on and on about how "people shouldn't feel bad for spending money" and how boring this woman must be (but "she wasn't judging) and "what if you wanted to have a dinner with your family" and all sorts of nonsense.

All that defensive behavior, when at no point had anyone said anything about the woman's social experiment being a criticism of anyone's lifestyle.

i thought it was ridiculous... this radio host was offended by someone doing "A" and assuming that it was some sort of rebuke on anyone who doesn't do the same thing. Why do so many people assume that support for one thing automatically denounces anything else?

It's like a white person saying that they're offended at a Tyler Perry movie because "what about white people? Don't they have a story too?".

[FreshFish]

Re: Gear Grinding 7: Really? This crap again?

Why do so many people assume that support for one thing automatically denounces anything else?

BINGO! Great observation. that sentence right there underscores so much of the divisiveness we see these days.

[alfablue]

Re: Gear Grinding 7: Really? This crap again?

The thing that tipped me over the edge:

They read a news item about some woman who pre-paid her mortgage, insurance, etc. then set a simple stipend for food and toiletries and otherwise didn't spend any money last year.

The hosts, one of them in particular, was somehow offended. She kept going on and on about how "people shouldn't feel bad for spending money" and how boring this woman must be (but "she wasn't judging) and "what if you wanted to have a dinner with your family" and all sorts of nonsense.

All that defensive behavior, when at no point had anyone said anything about the woman's social experiment being a criticism of anyone's lifestyle.

i thought it was ridiculous... this radio host was offended by someone doing "A" and assuming that it was some sort of rebuke on anyone who doesn't do the same thing. Why do so many people assume that support for one thing automatically denounces anything else?

It's like a white person saying that they're offended at a Tyler Perry movie because "what about white people? Don't they have a story too?".

Not sure who this is directed to, as it's kind of a minor rant about the subject...

We've been indoctrinated that we must be spenders and get stuff. Stuff like "keep up with the Jones'" and making people feel that they need stuff and whatnot.

I think this past recession has pointed out to people that it's not really needed to be at the leading edge of that- spending money does not make you happy for so many items. You can see this kind of thinking in your grandparents that lived through the Depression- who were frugal, fixed a lot of stuff, etc. Somehow, a group of consumers in the 50's started to get on the disposable bandwagon, and it grew from there. And now it's Patriotic to just spend money on stuff.

I think a large groups of consumers have gotten back to that thinking, and it's illustrated in shows like "Tiny House Nation" and the off the grid living shows- people who are learning to live with less of pretty much everything. And that's one of the reasons that the economy grows so slowly. Our economy is totally based on people buying stuff.

It sucks that anyone would ***** and moan that there are people out there who don't want to buy stuff for the sake of buying it.

On the other hand, it's odd when people do have money, and don't even spend for the basics- like keeping clean, having proper food, etc. I know someone like that, and it's kind of sad- have more than enough money to cover the nominal expenses to live on exactly as you have, but don't even do that.

[leswp1]

Re: Gear Grinding 7: Really? This crap again?

Not sure who this is directed to, as it's kind of a minor rant about the subject...

We've been indoctrinated that we must be spenders and get stuff. Stuff like "keep up with the Jones'" and making people feel that they need stuff and whatnot.

I think this past recession has pointed out to people that it's not really needed to be at the leading edge of that- spending money does not make you happy for so many items. You can see this kind of thinking in your grandparents that lived through the Depression- who were frugal, fixed a lot of stuff, etc. Somehow, a group of consumers in the 50's started to get on the disposable bandwagon, and it grew from there. And now it's Patriotic to just spend money on stuff.

I think a large groups of consumers have gotten back to that thinking, and it's illustrated in shows like "Tiny House Nation" and the off the grid living shows- people who are learning to live with less of pretty much everything. And that's one of the reasons that the economy grows so slowly. Our economy is totally based on people buying stuff.

It sucks that anyone would ***** and moan that there are people out there who don't want to buy stuff for the sake of buying it.

On the other hand, it's odd when people do have money, and don't even spend for the basics- like keeping clean, having proper food, etc. I know someone like that, and it's kind of sad- have more than enough money to cover the nominal expenses to live on exactly as you have, but don't even do that.

A few yrs ago was listening to the radio and heard a show where the interviewed a bunch of economists. Fascinating. They pointed out the reason the economy had been booming was people were encouraged to spend way beyond their means which drove the economy. That fell down on itself. The wise choice was to spend within your means however- if everyone did that the economy would be stagnant or have very slow growth. ie there is no way to perpetuate large growth without having periodic collapses. Made me lad I didnt need to fix economy

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Gear Grinding 7: Really? This crap again?

A few yrs ago was listening to the radio and heard a show where the interviewed a bunch of economists. Fascinating. They pointed out the reason the economy had been booming was people were encouraged to spend way beyond their means which drove the economy. That fell down on itself. The wise choice was to spend within your means however- if everyone did that the economy would be stagnant or have very slow growth. ie there is no way to perpetuate large growth without having periodic collapses. Made me lad I didnt need to fix economy

And why do you suppose people are spending beyond their means? Sure, avarice does play a role. Perhaps also what I would call the "Scrooge effect", where you are chastised for miserly sitting upon your wealth. Look to the Federal Reserve for their comment, however, because they have used this as their justification for intentionally inflating the dollar, even during recessions, thereby creating two of the worst instances of stagflation in history.

[leswp1]

Re: Gear Grinding 7: Really? This crap again?

And why do you suppose people are spending beyond their means? Sure, avarice does play a role. Perhaps also what I would call the "Scrooge effect", where you are chastised for miserly sitting upon your wealth. Look to the Federal Reserve for their comment, however, because they have used this as their justification for intentionally inflating the dollar, even during recessions, thereby creating two of the worst instances of stagflation in history.

It doesn't help that your cat can get a credit card. When I was in college and into my late 20s in order to get a credit card you had to fill out an application, show you had means to pay and they made you wait to get the card until they made sure you were a good risk. To get a loan you had to show a good credit history including not having too much debt. Creating economy by allowing tpeople to borrow on their expectations to enormous debt isn't really an answer

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Gear Grinding 7: Really? This crap again?

It doesn't help that your cat can get a credit card. When I was in college and into my late 20s in order to get a credit card you had to fill out an application, show you had means to pay and they made you wait to get the card until they made sure you were a good risk. To get a loan you had to show a good credit history including not having too much debt. Creating economy by allowing tpeople to borrow on their expectations to enormous debt isn't really an answer

Oh, and then you can't get a credit card unless you have recent credit. So in order to borrow money, you must have borrowed money. And then there's the "secured credit card", where you pay your credit line up front to borrow money. You might as well just buy what you want to buy outright at that point.

[Kepler]

Re: Gear Grinding 7: Really? This crap again?

The Trumpies at work all dismiss the march as being intolerant and hateful, "negative," and "violent." The contrast between what they are fed on Fox and what actually happened is, well, quite predictable.

You cannot reach people who wish to be deluded.

The best thing about the march for me was it really drove home how we are not alone. There are millions of people who know exactly what is going on and are fighting it. Back at our jobs we do what we can with the Breitbart slaves, but it is so tiring and depressing to be surrounded by unrelenting dementia and ignorance, at times outright nastiness, all too often bitterness and barely controlled anger.

It was nice to spend a day with family -- kind people demonstrating for a just cause.

I know we are supposed to not let toxic people live rent-free in our heads, but it is very hard when they are in your face every day.

[joecct]

The Trumpies at work all dismiss the march as being intolerant and hateful, "negative," and "violent." The contrast between what they are fed on Fox and what actually happened is, well, quite predictable.

You cannot reach people who wish to be deluded.

The best thing about the march for me was it really drove home how we are not alone. There are millions of people who know exactly what is going on and are fighting it. Back at our jobs we do what we can with the Breitbart slaves, but it is so tiring and depressing to be surrounded by unrelenting dementia and ignorance, at times outright nastiness, all too often bitterness and barely controlled anger.

It was nice to spend a day with family -- kind people demonstrating for a just cause.

I know we are supposed to not let toxic people live rent-free in our heads, but it is very hard when they are in your face every day.

There's another March on Friday which will be ignored by the deluded, toxic people, too.

[Kepler]

Re: Gear Grinding 7: Really? This crap again?

We've been indoctrinated that we must be spenders and get stuff. Stuff like "keep up with the Jones'" and making people feel that they need stuff and whatnot.

IMO this correlates highly with wisdom. Many people just seem to understand, either from experience or simply because they have a kind of quiet, personal wisdom, the hedonic treadmill. It's not something you're taught, it's something you observe both in others and in society as a whole.

One reason I shut off all commercials, always, is that I am convinced materialism is genuinely toxic. Advertising is poison and its elimination is paradise. Our society is obviously severely f-cked up, because it is run for the benefit of people who turn the vast majority of their fellow human beings into caged rats pressing feeder bars. Marketing is the science of making people unhappy so they will buy your brand of happiness. It's moral enslavement. In a healthy society it would be denigrated as, at the very most, a necessity like sewage treatment -- it keeps the economy going but it's gross. In our society everything is built around hypnotizing people into spending their lives spending, and eroding and diminishing all voices that runs contrary to that.

OK, granted, consumerism is a tax on the stupid: by the time smart people are 16 they know the trap and avoid it, and in doing so have far more fulfilling lives than the majority who are, unwittingly or even intentionally, herded from work to the stores and back again. And if there's a lesson to be taken from this election it's that people who don't want to be saved shouldn't be saved -- it's not what they want, and it wastes energy in a world where good deeds are a scarcity. So to some extent, it's their pig sty and they can go roll around in it.

But until we get FTL they can cause us a lot of trouble.

[alfablue]

Re: Gear Grinding 7: Really? This crap again?

IMO this correlates highly with wisdom. Many people just seem to understand, either from experience or simply because they have a kind of quiet, personal wisdom, the hedonic treadmill. It's not something you're taught, it's something you observe both in others and in society as a whole.

One reason I shut off all commercials, always, is that I am convinced materialism is genuinely toxic. Advertising is poison and its elimination is paradise. Our society is obviously severely f-cked up, because it is run for the benefit of people who turn the vast majority of their fellow human beings into caged rats pressing feeder bars. Marketing is the science of making people unhappy so they will buy your brand of happiness. It's moral enslavement. In a healthy society it would be denigrated as, at the very most, a necessity like sewage treatment -- it keeps the economy going but it's gross. In our society everything is built around hypnotizing people into spending their lives spending, and eroding and diminishing all voices that runs contrary to that.

OK, granted, consumerism is a tax on the stupid: by the time smart people are 16 they know the trap and avoid it, and in doing so have far more fulfilling lives than the majority who are, unwittingly or even intentionally, herded from work to the stores and back again. And if there's a lesson to be taken from this election it's that people who don't want to be saved shouldn't be saved -- it's not what they want, and it wastes energy in a world where good deeds are a scarcity. So to some extent, it's their pig sty and they can go roll around in it.

But until we get FTL they can cause us a lot of trouble.

One interesting thing we see a lot on modern TV are reality shows that are all about living with less. Many survival shows, many shows about people who live in the middle of nowhere and very off the grid, many shows about people just living their basic lives as happy as can be. Shows about living in the smallest space you can, using as little as you need to.

Not sure if there's a real shift to all of that, but it is interesting.

I've sent notes to the makers of the tiny house shows that they can easily and quickly change their focus to small homes- as there are MILLIONS of 1000ft^2 homes (+- 200ft) out there. Get away from the McMansions, and get to living in a space that you just need. I'm relieved that I never went down that path.

[leswp1]

Re: Gear Grinding 7: Really? This crap again?

The Trumpies at work all dismiss the march as being intolerant and hateful, "negative," and "violent." The contrast between what they are fed on Fox and what actually happened is, well, quite predictable.

You cannot reach people who wish to be deluded.

The best thing about the march for me was it really drove home how we are not alone. There are millions of people who know exactly what is going on and are fighting it. Back at our jobs we do what we can with the Breitbart slaves, but it is so tiring and depressing to be surrounded by unrelenting dementia and ignorance, at times outright nastiness, all too often bitterness and barely controlled anger.

It was nice to spend a day with family -- kind people demonstrating for a just cause.

I know we are supposed to not let toxic people live rent-free in our heads, but it is very hard when they are in your face every day.

Same here. Where I was I think I heard the Prez name maybe 3 times in 5 hours. It was all about reaffirming what is important

The vitriol that is acceptable grinds my gears. Where I live (red pocket in blue state) people are applauding the election and cannot give a coherent explanation of anything other than we will be great again. The reaction if you try ask a question about how because something seems illogical is really scary. Accusations about lack of patriotism, all sorts of name calling. I admit I felt intimidated and threatened to speak up. In the local paper website people comparing Mrs Obama to a baboon, a linebacker and saying the new First Lady is a return to elegance? It makes me ill.

On my FB page- people I thought I knew saying to march was a disgrace to my ovaries?

(I know people who voted for Trump because H scared them more. I may not always agree with their reasoning but I respect they actually thought about it)

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Gear Grinding 7: Really? This crap again?

IMO this correlates highly with wisdom. Many people just seem to understand, either from experience or simply because they have a kind of quiet, personal wisdom, the hedonic treadmill. It's not something you're taught, it's something you observe both in others and in society as a whole.

One reason I shut off all commercials, always, is that I am convinced materialism is genuinely toxic. Advertising is poison and its elimination is paradise. Our society is obviously severely f-cked up, because it is run for the benefit of people who turn the vast majority of their fellow human beings into caged rats pressing feeder bars. Marketing is the science of making people unhappy so they will buy your brand of happiness. It's moral enslavement. In a healthy society it would be denigrated as, at the very most, a necessity like sewage treatment -- it keeps the economy going but it's gross. In our society everything is built around hypnotizing people into spending their lives spending, and eroding and diminishing all voices that runs contrary to that.

OK, granted, consumerism is a tax on the stupid: by the time smart people are 16 they know the trap and avoid it, and in doing so have far more fulfilling lives than the majority who are, unwittingly or even intentionally, herded from work to the stores and back again. And if there's a lesson to be taken from this election it's that people who don't want to be saved shouldn't be saved -- it's not what they want, and it wastes energy in a world where good deeds are a scarcity. So to some extent, it's their pig sty and they can go roll around in it.

But until we get FTL they can cause us a lot of trouble.

So if spending doesn't get your "hedonic treadmill" going, then it must be intellectual smugness?

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Gear Grinding 7: Really? This crap again?

The vitriol that is acceptable grinds my gears. Where I live (red pocket in blue state) people are applauding the election and cannot give a coherent explanation of anything other than we will be great again. The reaction if you try ask a question about how because something seems illogical is really scary. Accusations about lack of patriotism, all sorts of name calling. I admit I felt intimidated and threatened to speak up. In the local paper website people comparing Mrs Obama to a baboon, a linebacker and saying the new First Lady is a return to elegance? It makes me ill.

I read the op-ed section of the local Port Charlotte, FL rag when I was down there visiting family last month, and it was the exact same, thought-terminating crap.

The shallowest form of patriotism is always wrapping oneself in the flag, and accusing others of being unpatriotic for criticizing the politics of our leaders, or other citizens.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Gear Grinding 7: Really? This crap again?

The Trumpies at work all dismiss the march as being intolerant and hateful, "negative," and "violent." The contrast between what they are fed on Fox and what actually happened is, well, quite predictable.

You cannot reach people who wish to be deluded.

The best thing about the march for me was it really drove home how we are not alone. There are millions of people who know exactly what is going on and are fighting it. Back at our jobs we do what we can with the Breitbart slaves, but it is so tiring and depressing to be surrounded by unrelenting dementia and ignorance, at times outright nastiness, all too often bitterness and barely controlled anger.

It was nice to spend a day with family -- kind people demonstrating for a just cause.

I know we are supposed to not let toxic people live rent-free in our heads, but it is very hard when they are in your face every day.

Assaulting women and setting their hair on fire because they don't agree with the narrative isn't exactly what I'd call peaceful.