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AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

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  • #31
    Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

    Originally posted by Go___Tech_Gold View Post
    Ivy students are rich and therefore don't need the money. Money doesn't always matter. The academy students don't pay tuition but are bound to work for the branch for a set number of years after graduation. Is that a scholarship? I'd say so, everyone has to work somewhere. They know that deal going in.
    Looks like they changed the rules for athletes at West Point back in 2005. If they sign a pro contract, just two years of service required and four years in the reserves.

    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/wes..._for_athletes/

    So, your David Robinson two years of service would make sense as this rule probably apply to all academy's
    RIT Tigers

    Got one foot in the crease

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    • #32
      Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

      Originally posted by jericho View Post
      I believe that rule applies only if they stay all four years, correct? If they leave after two, they don't have to go serve. But your point is still valid.
      The second you start your junior year, you are committed. Leaving after two is not a commitment.

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      • #33
        Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

        Originally posted by Go___Tech_Gold View Post
        Ivy students are rich and therefore don't need the money.
        That's not necessarily true. Many are from wealthy families, but as has been stated, there is need-based financial aid for the rest of the real world to have a chance to attend... IF AND ONLY IF they can actually get in academically. The Ivy League stance is that academics are the priority. Students can play sports while in school if they so desire. They aren't going to be given any financial incentive to do so, at least not any more than any other student has access to. It's kind of impressive they are able to recruit athletes that can balance the demands of both an Ivy League education and Division I competition. Most of the schools that prioritize athletics this way are Division III and would hardly dream of competing at that level.
        Can't we all just get along?
        Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

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        • #34
          Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

          Originally posted by Go___Tech_Gold View Post
          Technically AFA and Army are the only schools that can give more than 18 scholarships the whole team is on scholarship.

          The NCAA rule says only 18 hockey specific scholarships but a school can give everyone a scholarship and that's ok.
          Even if you consider the academy athletes to be on "scholarship" (to a school that has no tuition), the fact that the entire team is on "scholarship" is offset by the fact that the entire school is on "scholarship". The rules about financial assistance are usually interpreted with respect to how it is available to athletes in comparison to the rest of the student body at that school. There aren't many, if any, athletes that attend military academies for sports only. That military commitment is not a trivial thing. And besides, admission to a military academy isn't exactly a walk in the park. Not only are the requirements stringent, you also need one of your state's Senators to sponsor you, if I understand correctly.
          Last edited by TigerFan86-87; 09-09-2016, 12:01 PM.
          Can't we all just get along?
          Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

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          • #35
            Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

            Originally posted by Go___Tech_Gold View Post
            The unusual 16 limit was designed to keep bigger schools out of the conference but eventually Army and Air Force joined which actually can offer more than 18 since all the students are on scholarship, since they are not hockey-specific it was a loophole, finally rendered moot by this change.
            Actually, the limit used to be even less than the 14 it is now. It was not that way to keep larger schools out (like any would really want to join this conference anyhow). The MAAC and eventually AHA was founded with cost containment one of their primary objectives so that Division I programs that didn't have the resources (or the desire, in some cases) to fully support an actual D-I hockey team would have a place to play and compete with similar programs.
            Can't we all just get along?
            Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

              Originally posted by Blitz View Post
              Ivy league colleges have no athletic scholarships but everyone is entitled to needs based financial assistance so no issue with attracting kids and competing. RIT is also needs based financial assistance no issue there,
              You make that sound so easy. Those are very expensive schools. Not many students qualify for full financial need assistance. So there still is a fair amount of cost to attending these institutions for most students. Not all athletes are willing so shell that kind of cash out, especially if there is a scholarship out there and available at another comparable program.
              Can't we all just get along?
              Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

                Originally posted by TigerFan86-87 View Post
                You make that sound so easy. Those are very expensive schools. Not many students qualify for full financial need assistance. So there still is a fair amount of cost to attending these institutions for most students. Not all athletes are willing so shell that kind of cash out, especially if there is a scholarship out there and available at another comparable program.
                I'm quite sure RIT does not have the financial endowment like the Ivies do to give out FA. What is the story on RIT and Union deal with the NCAA. Doesn't make sense to cut a deal that says sure we'll let you play up but we will handicap you because of this this this.........

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by giwan View Post
                  I'm quite sure RIT does not have the financial endowment like the Ivies do to give out FA. What is the story on RIT and Union deal with the NCAA. Doesn't make sense to cut a deal that says sure we'll let you play up but we will handicap you because of this this this.........
                  It's not Division I's doing, it's division iii's doing and it's been that way since the 1980s when they eliminated scholarships at that level save for grandfathered programs playing at a higher level.

                  People don't usually realize this but there are different governing bodies for each of the 3 levels under the NCAA banner. Some things cover all divisions but not all things
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                  • #39
                    Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

                    Originally posted by giwan View Post
                    I'm quite sure RIT does not have the financial endowment like the Ivies do to give out FA. What is the story on RIT and Union deal with the NCAA. Doesn't make sense to cut a deal that says sure we'll let you play up but we will handicap you because of this this this.........
                    RIT has made it clear they are more than willing to give out the full amount of scholarships if allowed. Our endowment is more than almost all of the rest of the AHC combined.
                    Here's an article with more info, also includes a quote that Union is still uninterested in getting scholarships. http://www.democratandchronicle.com/...hips/22651989/
                    RIT Tigers

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                    • #40
                      Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

                      Originally posted by TigerFan86-87 View Post
                      Even if you consider the academy athletes to be on "scholarship" (to a school that has no tuition), the fact that the entire team is on "scholarship" is offset by the fact that the entire school is on "scholarship". The rules about financial assistance are usually interpreted with respect to how it is available to athletes in comparison to the rest of the student body at that school. There aren't many, if any, athletes that attend military academies for sports only. That military commitment is not a trivial thing. And besides, admission to a military academy isn't exactly a walk in the park. Not only are the requirements stringent, you also need one of your state's Senators to sponsor you, if I understand correctly.
                      Except this guy from AFA who got Bernie Sanders to sponsor him!

                      Number -11
                      Name - Renda, Vince
                      Hometown - Montreal, Quebec
                      Last Team - Brockville Bears (CCHL)
                      Last edited by blazer777; 09-09-2016, 02:00 PM.
                      RIT Tigers

                      Got one foot in the crease

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                      • #41
                        Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

                        Originally posted by Patman View Post
                        It's not Division I's doing, it's division iii's doing and it's been that way since the 1980s when they eliminated scholarships at that level save for grandfathered programs playing at a higher level.

                        People don't usually realize this but there are different governing bodies for each of the 3 levels under the NCAA banner. Some things cover all divisions but not all things
                        Yeah, as far as I read, Union didn't choose to not give scholarships...they decided to play up after some transition point in the 80s and were not allowed, while Clarkson, RPI, CC and St. Lawrence were already playing up and grandfathered later to protect their scholarships in perpetuity. RIT falls in with Union as playing up too late in the process.
                        Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

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                        • #42
                          Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

                          Originally posted by blazer777 View Post
                          Except this guy from AFA who got Bernie Sanders to sponsor him!

                          Number -11
                          Name - Renda, Vince
                          Hometown - Montreal, Quebec
                          Last Team - Brockville Bears (CCHL)
                          You don't have to be American to be sponsored by a Senator. They accept talent worldwide, clearly he has more to offer than just hockey.
                          Last edited by Go___Tech_Gold; 09-09-2016, 04:56 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

                            Originally posted by TigerFan86-87 View Post
                            Actually, the limit used to be even less than the 14 it is now. It was not that way to keep larger schools out (like any would really want to join this conference anyhow). The MAAC and eventually AHA was founded with cost containment one of their primary objectives so that Division I programs that didn't have the resources (or the desire, in some cases) to fully support an actual D-I hockey team would have a place to play and compete with similar programs.
                            Isn't keeping larger schools out exactly what has to be done to ensure competition with similar programs?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

                              Originally posted by TigerFan86-87 View Post
                              Even if you consider the academy athletes to be on "scholarship" (to a school that has no tuition), the fact that the entire team is on "scholarship" is offset by the fact that the entire school is on "scholarship". The rules about financial assistance are usually interpreted with respect to how it is available to athletes in comparison to the rest of the student body at that school. There aren't many, if any, athletes that attend military academies for sports only. That military commitment is not a trivial thing. And besides, admission to a military academy isn't exactly a walk in the park. Not only are the requirements stringent, you also need one of your state's Senators to sponsor you, if I understand correctly.
                              Oh no doubt...contrary to jock stereotypes, people who excel at something enough to get to a very high level, such as Division I NCAA hockey, tend to also excel in other ways as well. They aren't lazy drug addicts, in an extreme example.

                              I once looked into playing NCAA Division II Tennis for Michigan Tech, which gave out no scholarships, met with the coach, I was #1 in my high school, and it turned out the gap was enormous in talent between me and the worst player on the team. And get this, the average GPA of the team members was a 3.5. That's with them traveling on a bus so much and missing classes too.

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                              • #45
                                Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

                                Originally posted by blazer777 View Post
                                Navy Recruiter....hmmm, you seem too tall to join.

                                David Robinson...I'm an excellent basketball player!

                                Navy Recruiter...Off to the Academy you go!

                                Yes, quite the PR job for the Navy but they all knew he'd never get sea duty out of this gig but it was a good result for all involved.
                                There are other Navy jobs that are critical. A civil engineer who owns his own firm sits across the hall from me and he built ships while in the Navy working at the shipyard. Never spent 1 day living at sea.

                                David majored in Math. Which is a hard science equally respected along the lines of engineering. He left the Navy as a Lieutenant JG. Probably would have worked in cryptography at a Navy HQ in case he got injured and couldn't play in the NBA.
                                Last edited by Go___Tech_Gold; 09-09-2016, 05:11 PM.

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