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Thread: Norwich 2016-17 Season Thread: ISO first NEHC title

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    Re: Norwich 2016-17 Season Thread: ISO first NEHC title

    I want to give Kudos to Norwich for giving back to the community - even when the community is in another state ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezdeJohnson09 View Post
    It's about the kids. Love stories like this from the college atmospheres.
    When college hockey was fun....

    Romney
    Stafford
    The Duke
    Maxy
    3000+ at the Domes....

    When you could get on a player/team in their rink and still buy them a beer after the game. Now you get yelled at for trying to start the wave at your home rink...

    The Ira can get pretty wild, and the atmosphere at the Cooler for the Conference Championship was wild last year....but more times than not the PC police will find you if you raise your voice these days.....

    It's the kinder, gentler America where everyone gets a trophy. ...

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    Re: Norwich 2016-17 Season Thread: ISO first NEHC title

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUChamps2001 View Post

    The Ira can get pretty wild, and the atmosphere at the Cooler for the Conference Championship was wild last year....but more times than not the PC police will find you if you raise your voice these days.....

    It's the kinder, gentler America where everyone gets a trophy. ...
    That's absolutely true. It's not just hockey. With the Sap Bucket being played for this past weekend there's another story worth mentioning. In the lead-up to the 2012 Sap Bucket Game my friends and I heard countless stories of the great Norwich football rivalries of the past against Middlebury and Coast Guard. Most of these stories revolved around the pranks leading up to the game: Middlebury painting Sabine Sally pink, cadets stealing Coast Guard's bear mascot, cadets trying to paint Coast Guard's schooner maroon & gold but nearly getting shot by the security forces from the nuclear submarine base across the river, Rooks keeping watch over campus the week of the Coast Guard Game, etc. I remember vividly the week of the Castleton game President Schneider himself telling a group of us these stories, going on for at least a half hour, at a student government event that generously provided an open bar.

    After that, my friends and I were determined to do something to add a little juice to the budding Norwich-Castleton rivalry, but as we brainstormed ideas and tried to draw inspiration from those past stories, we kept coming back to the same realization: Any of those pranks from the past pulled today would lead to us being expelled, having our ROTC scholarships pulled, or both. And because of this, Norwich-Castleton has become a fierce rivalry across sports between the teams that play, but it hasn't yet sparked the student bodies to a level of passion. Hell, I bet half the students at Norwich don't even know Castleton exists.

    Same thing with Middlebury. For me, as a student of Norwich history and a friend of Charlie Crosby, I was well aware of the history of the Middlebury-Norwich rivalry. So it was a thrill for me to travel to Middlebury as a senior with the baseball team and be a part of a chapter in that rivalry (until we lost). But that's the only time we ever played Middlebury. Hockey is the only sport where Middlebury and Norwich play each other regularly, and half the time the students aren't even on campus. How many of them are aware of the significance of the game?

    I digress, but it's sad.
    Norwich '13

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    Re: Norwich 2016-17 Season Thread: ISO first NEHC title

    With Midd out of the national picture, the Midd-Norwich game isn't what it used to be. Also, the two schools do play regularly in men's soccer, baseball and cross country, but that's about it. Too bad!
    Middlebury Hockey....The Greatest DIII Show on Skates

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    Re: Norwich 2016-17 Season Thread: ISO first NEHC title

    Quote Originally Posted by neumyer View Post
    With Midd out of the national picture, the Midd-Norwich game isn't what it used to be. Also, the two schools do play regularly in men's soccer, baseball and cross country, but that's about it. Too bad!
    I do think soccer is pretty regular, but baseball isn't. Cross Country doesn't really count IMO as it's not a head-to-head sport.
    Norwich '13

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    Quote Originally Posted by NU Pastime View Post
    I do think soccer is pretty regular, but baseball isn't. Cross Country doesn't really count IMO as it's not a head-to-head sport.
    Middlebury lost a lot of its spunk (crowd wise) when they moved to the new rink. I may not have liked going to the Duke as an opposing fan (same with Romney) but **** was it fun...

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    Re: Norwich 2016-17 Season Thread: ISO first NEHC title

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUChamps2001 View Post
    When college hockey was fun....

    Romney
    Stafford
    The Duke
    Maxy
    3000+ at the Domes....

    When you could get on a player/team in their rink and still buy them a beer after the game. Now you get yelled at for trying to start the wave at your home rink...

    The Ira can get pretty wild, and the atmosphere at the Cooler for the Conference Championship was wild last year....but more times than not the PC police will find you if you raise your voice these days.....

    It's the kinder, gentler America where everyone gets a trophy. ...
    I would definately add Taylor Arena to that list!! But that was a different time....
    Go 'Wick!

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    Angry Re: Norwich 2016-17 Season Thread: ISO first NEHC title

    Quote Originally Posted by PSUChamps2001 View Post
    When college hockey was fun....

    Romney
    Stafford
    The Duke
    Maxy
    3000+ at the Domes....

    When you could get on a player/team in their rink and still buy them a beer after the game. Now you get yelled at for trying to start the wave at your home rink...

    The Ira can get pretty wild, and the atmosphere at the Cooler for the Conference Championship was wild last year....but more times than not the PC police will find you if you raise your voice these days.....

    It's the kinder, gentler America where everyone gets a trophy. ...
    My first whiteout weekend at the Campus Center I had a state trooper visit me due to my disagreeing with Murphy the ref,no cursing just funny jokes,like wake up Murphy your missing a good game,the Platty fans with whom I was sitting with in sec.53 all defended me and said there was no cursing whatsoever,while as a player at Oswego in the mid/late 80's the fans at Romney could be counted on for anything from the A-hole chant to kegs in the stands,to whatever the Zoo had on the menu for that day.........times they are a changin.........or have changed
    Last edited by bakdraft21; 11-14-2016 at 10:43 AM.

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    Re: Norwich 2016-17 Season Thread: ISO first NEHC title

    Davis Rink at Dartmouth was where I cut my teeth on College hockey. Rowdy crowds - only real seats were the reserved seats where the faculty and townspeople would set. Otherwise it was standup bleachers and a chain link fence instead of glass.
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    Re: Norwich 2016-17 Season Thread: ISO first NEHC title

    I often wander how we can get more crowds to the games like the days when the rink was first built. Any one have any ideas? It is a fun place to be when it is full of fans. Maybe when Babson comes into town?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    I often wander how we can get more crowds to the games like the days when the rink was first built. Any one have any ideas? It is a fun place to be when it is full of fans. Maybe when Babson comes into town?
    This topic has been broached many times and a variety of factors contribute to it.

    The teams/schedule (no more nescac schools)
    Video streaming
    Cost of tickets
    Aging fan base
    Corps/Civilian divide
    Lack of connection with community

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezdeJohnson09 View Post
    This topic has been broached many times and a variety of factors contribute to it.

    The teams/schedule (no more nescac schools)
    Video streaming
    Cost of tickets
    Aging fan base
    Corps/Civilian divide
    Lack of connection with community
    With regard to the last two reasons listed:

    I don't know if it's a Corps/civilian "divide" as much as it's just that our hockey team only has one Corps student and the Corps just isn't as invested in cheering for guys they don't know. Example: the student body is approximately 70% Corps. The football team is about 60% Corps. While the support isn't what it used to be, there was a platoon of rooks holding cardboard signs in the end zone at last weekend's game, as their training cadre is a member of the team.

    As far as community outreach, I think hockey does it better than anyone on campus.

    I think streaming has a lot to do with it. I go to Friday night games whenever I possibly can. I often find myself watching the Saturday game at home because it's "easier" to stream it than spend an afternoon at the rink. I wish we played Saturday nights rather than afternoons. Maybe someday the league will agree...
    Last edited by KRBFLINT03; 11-14-2016 at 07:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KRBFLINT03 View Post
    With regard to the last two reasons listed:

    I don't know if it's a Corps/civilian "divide" as much as it's just that our hockey team only has one Corps student and the Corps just isn't as invested in cheering for guys they don't know. Example: the student body is approximately 70% Corps. The football team is about 60% Corps. While the support isn't what it used to be, there was a platoon of rooks holding cardboard signs in the end zone at last weekend's game, as their training cadre is a member of the team.

    As far as community outreach, I think hockey does it better than anyone on campus.

    I think streaming has a lot to do with it. I go to Friday night games whenever I possibly can. I often find myself watching the Saturday game at home because it's "easier" to stream it than spend an afternoon at the rink. I wish we played Saturday nights rather than afternoons. Maybe someday the league will agree...
    That's what I mean more by the Corps/Civilian divide. The Corps has a bigger interest in club games where most of the team is their friends rather than the varsity team with like you said only has one corps member.

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    Re: Norwich 2016-17 Season Thread: ISO first NEHC title

    Quote Originally Posted by PrezdeJohnson09 View Post
    That's what I mean more by the Corps/Civilian divide. The Corps has a bigger interest in club games where most of the team is their friends rather than the varsity team with like you said only has one corps member.

    It has always been that way in terms of Corps/Civilian on the team - even back to the day when Civilian students were based in Montpelier. However in those days there was a lot of support for the team from the Cadets. Maybe it was the old Taylor horse barn atmosphere, and the carryover of that to the opening of Krietzberg, or maybe it was a different era, but I remember a lot of enthusiasm for the team from the cadets in those years. There have always been a few corps members on the team, but there was a lot of enthusiasm. Krietzberg for a number of years was the place to be in Northfield on Friday night and Saturday afternoon. Students went, town people went, faculty went. It was a really tough ticket to get a seat at a game, and lots of people were willing to stand - the railing around around the concourse was packed two or more deep. Some of may have been the novelty of the arena, some of it may have been marketing, but there was a buzz. I think some of it may be explained by the ECAC East/NESCAC split. When teams like Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Colby etc. came to town there was a certain excitement - and nevermind what would happen on the Tuesday nights when Middlebury would show up. The interlock started to cause interest in those matchups, since we no longer were directly competing with them, but now even that is gone. I would guess that ticket prices probably have an impact, but I don't think streaming is a big deal. In the early days of Krietzberg, Trans-video put the games out on the local access channel. I think the novelty has worn off, and the teams that we now play in the NEHC don't have the same panache as the teams in the old ECAC East. I was disturbed when the NESCAC pulled out to form the interlock, because I was afraid of the loss of the traditional rivalries. In my opinion this is when things started to go downhill. It was slow at first, but from what I'm hearing, it sounds like there has been an acceleration in the slide.

    brief summary - blame the NESCAC
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    Re: Norwich 2016-17 Season Thread: ISO first NEHC title

    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    It has always been that way in terms of Corps/Civilian on the team - even back to the day when Civilian students were based in Montpelier. However in those days there was a lot of support for the team from the Cadets. Maybe it was the old Taylor horse barn atmosphere, and the carryover of that to the opening of Krietzberg, or maybe it was a different era, but I remember a lot of enthusiasm for the team from the cadets in those years. There have always been a few corps members on the team, but there was a lot of enthusiasm. Krietzberg for a number of years was the place to be in Northfield on Friday night and Saturday afternoon. Students went, town people went, faculty went. It was a really tough ticket to get a seat at a game, and lots of people were willing to stand - the railing around around the concourse was packed two or more deep. Some of may have been the novelty of the arena, some of it may have been marketing, but there was a buzz. I think some of it may be explained by the ECAC East/NESCAC split. When teams like Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Colby etc. came to town there was a certain excitement - and nevermind what would happen on the Tuesday nights when Middlebury would show up. The interlock started to cause interest in those matchups, since we no longer were directly competing with them, but now even that is gone. I would guess that ticket prices probably have an impact, but I don't think streaming is a big deal. In the early days of Krietzberg, Trans-video put the games out on the local access channel. I think the novelty has worn off, and the teams that we now play in the NEHC don't have the same panache as the teams in the old ECAC East. I was disturbed when the NESCAC pulled out to form the interlock, because I was afraid of the loss of the traditional rivalries. In my opinion this is when things started to go downhill. It was slow at first, but from what I'm hearing, it sounds like there has been an acceleration in the slide.

    brief summary - blame the NESCAC
    wow thought it was RIT's fault

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    Re: Norwich 2016-17 Season Thread: ISO first NEHC title

    While perhaps less quantifiable, I think there's also a larger cultural impact that is having an effect. Growing up, I spent my fall Saturdays watching college football from College Gameday in the morning until the West Coast games came on at ten, mixed with hours of playing football outside. In the winter, I'd go to basketball practice at night and then come home and switch on whatever college game was on ESPN (this was Southern Illinois, so college hockey wasn't even on the radar). For me, a major part of the excitement in going to college was college sports. It was, and still is really, surprising to me when I got to college and found a large part of the student body completely apathetic at best, hostile at worst, towards athletics. The hostile part more Norwich-specific as its coming from the stereotype of athletes being bad cadets in the Corps, a stereotype that certain teams do a better job of contributing to than others. But I also read about it at Bowdoin, I think, and their students' view (accurate or not) that the athletes are held to different admission standards than the general student populous.

    I don't mean this insultingly, but the Call of Duty video game is the best recruiting tool the Army has ever had. In that context, many kids at Norwich in particular who are working at chasing their dreams to become an infantry officer or special forces simply aren't interested in sports and/or have a bad opinion of those who play. For them, a Friday night is better spent in their room playing Xbox. I know this seems like a very stereotypical and generic criticism of youth today in general, but I think there's a lot of truth to it. I'm sure it's true to an extent on other campuses too.
    Last edited by NU Pastime; 11-15-2016 at 08:37 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezdeJohnson09 View Post
    That's what I mean more by the Corps/Civilian divide. The Corps has a bigger interest in club games where most of the team is their friends rather than the varsity team with like you said only has one corps member.
    Ok, I wasn't sure if you might have been alluding to the mythical "dislike" between Corps and civilian on campus. I think there is still a notion out there that it exists, when all evidence says it does not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NU Pastime View Post
    While perhaps less quantifiable, I think there's also a larger cultural impact that is having an effect. Growing up, I spent my fall Saturdays watching college football from College Gameday in the morning until the West Coast games came on at ten, mixed with hours of playing football outside. In the winter, I'd go to basketball practice at night and then come home and switch on whatever college game was on ESPN (this was Southern Illinois, so college hockey wasn't even on the radar). For me, a major part of the excitement in going to college was college sports. It was, and still is really, surprising to me when I got to college and found a large part of the student body completely apathetic at best, hostile at worst, towards athletics. The hostile part more Norwich-specific as its coming from the stereotype of athletes being bad cadets in the Corps, a stereotype that certain teams do a better job of contributing to than others. But I also read about it at Bowdoin, I think, and their students' view (accurate or not) that the athletes are held to different admission standards than the general student populous.

    I don't mean this insultingly, but the Call of Duty video game is the best recruiting tool the Army has ever had. In that context, many kids at Norwich in particular who are working at chasing their dreams to become an infantry officer or special forces simply aren't interested in sports and/or have a bad opinion of those who play. For them, a Friday night is better spent in their room playing Xbox. I know this seems like a very stereotypical and generic criticism of youth today in general, but I think there's a lot of truth to it. I'm sure it's true to an extent on other campuses too.
    You're right about that stereotype; it certainly exists. It would be interesting to collect data on the percentage of athletes who commission vs non-athletes. It seems, and this could be wrong, that the loudest voices complaining about athletes are the "Norwich heroes" who graduate from the Corps and do not opt to serve, while a large number of athletes continue into the service after graduation and flourish. Again, anecdotal and probably not relevant to the current discussion

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    Re: Norwich 2016-17 Season Thread: ISO first NEHC title

    Quote Originally Posted by KRBFLINT03 View Post
    You're right about that stereotype; it certainly exists. It would be interesting to collect data on the percentage of athletes who commission vs non-athletes. It seems, and this could be wrong, that the loudest voices complaining about athletes are the "Norwich heroes" who graduate from the Corps and do not opt to serve, while a large number of athletes continue into the service after graduation and flourish. Again, anecdotal and probably not relevant to the current discussion
    w

    Well, that's usually true of any group that speaks the loudest, particularly at Norwich. Those who complain loudest about "losing tradition" and the "Corps going soft" are the same ones who fail to wear the uniform correctly or struggle to wake up in time to salute the flag - you know, the most basic of military traditions. But you're right, probably not relevant to the current discussion.
    Norwich '13

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    Re: Norwich 2016-17 Season Thread: ISO first NEHC title

    Quote Originally Posted by NU Pastime View Post
    w

    Well, that's usually true of any group that speaks the loudest, particularly at Norwich. Those who complain loudest about "losing tradition" and the "Corps going soft" are the same ones who fail to wear the uniform correctly or struggle to wake up in time to salute the flag - you know, the most basic of military traditions. But you're right, probably not relevant to the current discussion.
    This stuff has been going on forever. It was in full swing when I arrived on campus in 1980 - it ebbs, it flows, but it is always there. In 1980 there was the mantra that the "Corps is going soft" and all of that stuff, and it wasn't new then. I'm sure in 1825, alumni were already saying that the corps was losing its standards. It's part of "Norwich Forever"
    Last edited by NUProf; 11-15-2016 at 06:52 PM.
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