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  • #496
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    Originally posted by Wisko McBadgerton View Post
    The treaty has been adjudicated all the way to the Supreme Court and it has been held (in 1980) that the US Government owes the Sioux money. The Sioux haven't picked it up and it's been held in trust since. It's now over a billion dollars. I don't know what further recourse the Sioux can possibly have on that matter. Which is beside the fact that the original treaties state that they must accept roads, forts and utilitarian easements through their lands.

    I'd guess the "violent people who were screaming for rebellion" weren't attacked because they were not posing an imminent threat to anyone and were contained. They were all arrested and charged eventually, except for the guy killed. I assume you wouldn't advocate the feds should have just gone in guns blazing anyway?

    It's perfectly fine to taze, but not shoot, a naked guy running through the mall slapping people. You also wouldn't shoot an armed guy standing alone in a field screaming, but you would contain him with an armed group until he stopped. You would likely shoot a guy in the mall screaming and pointing a gun at people.

    The "non-violent protesters who weren't armed" seems inaccurate. These folks haven't all been just sitting around singing kumbaya and roasting marshmallows on tribal land. In a separate but related incident they burned over a million dollars worth of equipment in Iowa. Everybody assumes a bulldozer sitting there is owned by some evil gigantic corporation so "who cares they can afford it", when in fact it is just as, if not much more, likely it's some small subcontractor's stuff. I'm not coming down on the side of the law's tactics because I don't know what provoked every case, but at the same time, Joe Builder has a right to have his excavator on private property working a legally let contract, left alone. The mob can't just overrun everywhere, set fires, destroy stuff, and harm people. Some measure has to be taken at some point to protect people and property. Those measures perhaps should have been taken by the protesters themselves in at least some of these incidents.
    Even if it is owned by an evil corporation burning it is completely ridiculous. Both sides in various forms have taken this too far but I am going to hold Sheriffs to a higher standard. Their actions have been pretty bad.
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
    -INCH

    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

    Comment

    • #497
      Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

      Originally posted by Wisko McBadgerton View Post
      I guess the assumption is that a white jury is biased for a white guy and against a black guy. Presumably it follows the thinking is a black jury would be biased in reverse. I guess that's the old "implicit bias" thing Hillary was talking about.
      I can remember this debate going all the way back to the OJ murder trial. That jury had 9 blacks, 2 whites, 1 Hispanic/Latino.

      In his subsequent civil trial, there were 8 whites, 1 black, 1 Arabic, 1 mixed race, and 1 Hispanic/Latino.

      After the outcome of both trials, there were many charges of a racially-biased jury.

      Comment

      • #498
        Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

        Originally posted by Handyman View Post
        Even if it is owned by an evil corporation burning it is completely ridiculous. Both sides in various forms have taken this too far but I am going to hold Sheriffs to a higher standard. Their actions have been pretty bad.
        I've got to disagree with you Handy. I think that all things considered, the Morton County Sheriff's department hasn't handled this too bad. When you take into consideration the fact that someone blew up some sort of explosive device, that at least one protester fired three shots with a .38 handgun, and given the number of protesters, the heated nature of the protest and the length of time that it's gone on, there is no evidence that a sheriff's department deputy ever fired a shot or beat up a protester or anything of that nature. Beyond the spraying of water cannons to soak the crowd, they really haven't done anything to these people other than arrest those they thought violated the law or try to keep order.
        That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

        Comment

        • #499
          Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

          Originally posted by Wisko McBadgerton View Post
          Totally anecdotal, but I was foreman of a very mixed race jury in a vehicular homicide case awhile back. Male, middle aged, Dominican defendant; young white female victim. I couldn't see anywhere where race entered into the deliberations. Everybody was just trying to do their best to figure out what happened and how the law applied.
          I mean ideally it works that way but in this case in SC that's clearly not what happened. How any rational person can see the guy running away as the officer fires and come to the conclusion that the officer's life was in danger and therefore the trigger needed to be pulled in that situation... it's hard to imagine he came to the conclusion for non-race related reasons. Obviously we want a non-biased jury regardless of the demographics that make it up but it's kind of like when companies say "we want the best qualified people" and then end up with a workforce that's 95% white.

          Comment

          • #500
            Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

            Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
            there is no evidence that a sheriff's department deputy ever fired a shot or beat up a protester or anything of that nature. Beyond the spraying of water cannons to soak the crowd, they really haven't done anything to these people other than arrest those they thought violated the law or try to keep order.
            IDK about that...

            Comment

            • #501
              Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

              And this is why I have basically ignored the Standing Rock situation...I don't know whats the truth and I don't have the time or energy to dig into it and figure it out. My facebook wall is full of people posting their opinions and to be honest, I'm sick of most of them.
              Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

              Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

              Comment

              • #502
                Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                I've got to disagree with you Handy. I think that all things considered, the Morton County Sheriff's department hasn't handled this too bad. When you take into consideration the fact that someone blew up some sort of explosive device, that at least one protester fired three shots with a .38 handgun, and given the number of protesters, the heated nature of the protest and the length of time that it's gone on, there is no evidence that a sheriff's department deputy ever fired a shot or beat up a protester or anything of that nature. Beyond the spraying of water cannons to soak the crowd, they really haven't done anything to these people other than arrest those they thought violated the law or try to keep order.
                Thats cool...difference of opinions are cool by me. Even if you do cheer for a cruddy team
                "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                -aparch

                "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                -INCH

                Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                Comment

                • #503
                  Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                  Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
                  IDK about that...
                  Ok, let's see some proof of wrongdoing by the sheriff's department.

                  Comment

                  • #504
                    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                    Originally posted by cF[Authentic] View Post
                    Ok, let's see some proof of wrongdoing by the sheriff's department.
                    You mean besides the video we have of them macing people? Or the concussion grenades and tear gas? How about shooting water cannons in below freezing temps causing hypothermia?

                    And before you start to say it is all lies Here is The Snopes Article About It. Watch the videos...

                    But other than all the actual evidence...I guess there isnt any evidence.

                    Now maybe you agree with those tactics and that is a different argument...but lets not pretend the Sheriff's were just standing around picking their noses while the Big Bad Redskins got all hopped on Fire Water and went a Scalpin mmmkay?
                    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                    -aparch

                    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                    -INCH

                    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                    Comment

                    • #505
                      Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                      Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                      You mean besides the video we have of them macing people? Or the concussion grenades and tear gas? How about shooting water cannons in below freezing temps causing hypothermia?

                      And before you start to say it is all lies, Here is The Snopes Ar...
                      Snopes = Fake Fact-Checkers! All those videos were staged!1!11!!

                      Comment

                      • #506
                        Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                        Originally posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
                        Snopes = Fake Fact-Checkers! All those videos were staged!1!11!!
                        Breaking News From Breitbart: Video showing protesters attacked actually filmed on soundstage in Burbank. Insider reports same tech used to fake Moon Landing used here! When reached for comment Flagdude was heard to say "I TOLDZ ALL YA SHEEPLE!! OBAMA FAKED IT ALL...".

                        In a follow up to the story Flaggy was seen being dragged off in a black helicopter headed in the direction of the local Wal-Mart...more as it develops!!!1!!!

                        "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                        -aparch

                        "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                        -INCH

                        Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                        -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                        Comment

                        • #507
                          Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                          Is there something in the water in North Dakoduh?

                          Comment

                          • #508
                            Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                            Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
                            Is there something in the water in North Dakoduh?
                            Big fish.
                            That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                            Comment

                            • #509
                              Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                              Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                              Big fish.
                              Kristos toes?
                              "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                              -aparch

                              "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                              -INCH

                              Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                              -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                              Comment

                              • #510
                                Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                                Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                                Kristos toes?
                                Wouldn't those have flowed down river into Canada by now?
                                "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                                "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                                "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

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