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  • #931
    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

    At about the same time, another officer who had just arrived on the scene saw what was happening and "fearing for his safety and apparently not recognizing the off-duty officer, discharged a shot, striking the off-duty officer in the arm."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3RJUMm-hd0
    Cornell University
    National Champion 1967, 1970
    ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
    Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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    • #932
      Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

      Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
      Sadly, the stereotype is that ex-mil are gung-ho. I ran into one of them. Buddy's wife was .08, the week the new MN law passed, making .08 the new limit. He was all in our faces. He came to me, and "asked" (actually kinda demanded) "She said you're the most sober, wanna blow into this?" I initially said no, I'm not driving anywhere. He insisted. Fine, arsehat. Blew. He said, "Yeah, you're not going anywhere." Um, I JUST TOLD YOU THAT.
      The ex-mils I have had experience with are just the opposite. It's the wanna bes who are trying to prove something. The actual soldiers have had a belly full of carnage and would just assume never discharge their weapon again if they can avoid it.

      I've been really impressed by the training and the attitude of ex-mils and their immediate families. As a general observation they seem to be serious and thoughtful in how they observe firearms safety and how they try to de-escalate conflict. Again, it's the 4-Fs who are gung ho.
      Cornell University
      National Champion 1967, 1970
      ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
      Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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      • #933
        Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

        There is a video circulating on Facebook of a white dude attacking, fighting, and reaching for the gun of two officers. They try and restrain him, they fight back they dont beat him senseless and they sure as hell dont shoot/kill him. They would be completely justified in fearing for their lives but they dont take the next step of ending the life of a citizen.

        That is the difference between White America and Black America. What are the chances a Black Man survives that encounter...or isnt put in the hospital?
        "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
        -aparch

        "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
        -INCH

        Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
        -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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        • #934
          Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

          Originally posted by Handyman View Post
          There is a video circulating on Facebook of a white dude attacking, fighting, and reaching for the gun of two officers. They try and restrain him, they fight back they dont beat him senseless and they sure as hell dont shoot/kill him. They would be completely justified in fearing for their lives but they dont take the next step of ending the life of a citizen.

          That is the difference between White America and Black America. What are the chances a Black Man survives that encounter...or isnt put in the hospital?
          Training. And I know where you're going with this.

          It's all in the training.
          Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
          Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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          • #935
            Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

            Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
            Training. And I know where you're going with this.

            It's all in the training.
            Training is huge and will help, but racism in this country is deeply entrenched, and it takes more than police training to change a culture.

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            • #936
              Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

              Originally posted by burd View Post
              Training is huge and will help, but racism in this country is deeply entrenched, and it takes more than police training to change a culture.
              I will not argue the racism bit, I agree that it is entrenched. It's just not a police thing. It's more widespread than that.
              Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
              Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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              • #937
                Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                Yeah but this is a police thread.

                And you can beat the drum about "training" all you want to...it is more than training. The chances that the only the badly trained cops are the ones who are involved in killing Black People is infinitesimal. That is just an excuse and ignores the many other factors involved.
                "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                -aparch

                "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                -INCH

                Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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                • #938
                  Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                  Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                  There is a video circulating on Facebook of a white dude attacking, fighting, and reaching for the gun of two officers. They try and restrain him, they fight back they dont beat him senseless and they sure as hell dont shoot/kill him. They would be completely justified in fearing for their lives but they dont take the next step of ending the life of a citizen.

                  That is the difference between White America and Black America. What are the chances a Black Man survives that encounter...or isnt put in the hospital?
                  Zero. And training has nothing to do with it.
                  **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                  Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                  Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                  • #939
                    Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                    Zero. And training has nothing to do with it.
                    Training will not cure racism, that's for sure, but it can help avoid some of these unnecessary killings.

                    I'm guessing that tighter prehire screening is not a very effective solution, since candidates will just hide their prejudices and departments probably have a hard time finding minimally qualified candidates as it is.

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                    • #940
                      Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                      It's three-fold. Training matters, of course, but more important are hiring the right people to begin with, and holding those who screw up accountable. Neither of those are being done with much success right now.

                      The office in Cleveland who was recently fired in the Tamir Rice shooting was hired by the CPD even though his superiors in Independence (a southern suburb of Cleveland) thought he was unable to perform his duties. How the hell did he then get hired by a bigger department in a city with much more crime and related difficulties? His supervisors said his performance in handling firearms was "dismal" and his deputy chief noted he did not believe "time nor training will be able to change or correct the deficiencies." He was allowed to resign from the Independence PD in lieu of termination over his shortcomings. Does anyone believe these kinds of hiring deficiencies are limited to this one officer in this one police department? Well, maybe those who believe trump could learn how to be president in the 2 1/2 months between his election and his inauguration. That only talks too about hiring people with proven tactical deficiencies. Psychologically is another area. I believe we are often hiring the wrong people to be police officers. Cops nowadays have an occupation mentality. Maybe the infatuation with hiring ex-military has come back to roost, another aspect I believe is the cause of a lot of this. Just because soldiers and Marines carry weapons and so do cops, the jobs are radically different in most ways. Just like just because cops and firefighters respond to 911 calls in vehicles with lights and sirens and often end up on the same scene, the jobs are hardly similar.

                      Then begin to hold a few accountable. If the Tamir Rice shooting or the Castille shooting or any of a number of other ones ended in manslaughter convictions and a decade in prison for the worst cops among us, would that lead to police using deadly force only when they truly had no other choice? Well we put our other criminals in prison allegedly to serve as a deterrent to the rest of us committing similar crimes. Fellow law enforcement officers need to get on board with this. They need to drum the bad ones out. Yet that is the last thing that happens. Police unions, police brass, prosecutors, they are all the last ones who will ever say the cops are wrong. When a cop is wrong, they should be the first ones to say so. And no, not every fatal encounter that should have gone a different way is criminal. But how many of the 1000 or more fatal shootings even lead to an officer being removed from the force, let alone criminally charged?

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                      • #941
                        Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                        Originally posted by burd View Post
                        Training will not cure racism, that's for sure, but it can help avoid some of these unnecessary killings.

                        I'm guessing that tighter prehire screening is not a very effective solution, since candidates will just hide their prejudices and departments probably have a hard time finding minimally qualified candidates as it is.
                        This is not true. Better hiring practices, perhaps realizing that the military is not the only fertile ground to find cops, can go a long way. Psychological screening can still successfully weed out those most likely to let prejudices severely cloud their actions if it is done rigidly.

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                        • #942
                          Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                          I would ask people to read this linked article with an open mind.

                          A coouple of things especially notable to me:
                          Use-of-force training should also emphasize de-escalation and flexible tactics in a way that minimizes the need to rely on force, particularly lethal force. Police agencies that have emphasized de-escalation over assertive policing, such as Richmond, California, have seen a substantial decrease in officer uses of force, including lethal force, without seeing an increase in officer fatalities
                          and:
                          More comprehensive tactical training would also help prevent unnecessary uses of force. Instead of rushing in to confront someone, officers need to be taught that it is often preferable to take an oblique approach that protects them as they gather information or make contact from a safe distance.
                          Too often cops are treating all situations like they do a mass barricaded shooter. Approaching a vehicle with a lone occupant is NOT the same thing as responding to a Columbine like shooting. An immediate, aggressive response to a Columbine situation can save lives (at Columbine the first officers did not enter the school until nearly an hour after the first 9-11 call, as officers and SWAT teams used to be trained, now training is different) but just the opposite is generally true for situations like so many of the unarmed young men who are getting shot.

                          We don't train our firefighters or airline pilots to react to danger or difficult and unknown situations like police officers are trained. Yet in a structure fire or an airliner engine failure, time and prompt action are also important, and sometimes seconds count. But we train firefighters and pilots in a completely different manner. Act too quickly and disaster can happen. Human beings should be smart enough to figure out a better way to train cops too.

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                          • #943
                            Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                            You want to hold the cops accountable? Fine. This, however, is going WAY too far. https://www.infowars.com/nyc-cop-die...attack-police/

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                            • #944
                              Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                              http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...utt-rifle.html
                              A bad cause requires many words.

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                              • #945
                                Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

                                This one is a doozy, basic facts of what happened are tough to nail down, every article about it tells a completely different story. But a cop definitely unloaded into the back of an unarmed black man who was on the ground.
                                http://www.theroot.com/dejuan-guillo...n-a-1796731246
                                https://kadn.com/mamou-burglary-ends...ting-one-dead/
                                http://penpointnews.com/murder-mamou...utes-father-3/

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