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Thread: Harvard Crimson 2016-2017: Restoring the Karma Part II

  1. #81
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    Re: Harvard Crimson 2016-2017: Restoring the Karma Part II

    There's really not much you can after today. Despite the injuries to five forwards who were missing, they still had enough to put 43 shots on goal. To only score once is beyond belief. Harvard had everything to play for and Brown had nothing and yet it was the Lady Bruins who played hard, aggressive hockey, took some chances and in the end, celebrated like they won the ECAC Tournament. Good for them.

    The numbers don't lie. Here they are in no particular order:

    1. In 24 games this season, Harvard scored 2 goals or fewer. Chew on that for a while. 24 games. Unreal.
    2. The team played 10 overtime games and did not win one of those OT games. That is mathematically pretty hard to do. And it's a program record.
    3. The team had a 15 game winless streak at one point during the season. Also a program record.
    4. Their winning % was the lowest in over 20 years. Even in the first year of women's hockey at Harvard when most of the players had trouble staying on their skates and didn't know what icing mean't, the team won 6 games. They should be embarrassed by their win total this season.
    5. And this is the first time in 18+ seasons that Harvard did not qualify for the playoffs.

    I've stated all the reasons why I think this team failed so miserably this season. I don't want to rehash them here. Pointless. The big problem is that it isn't going to get better any time soon. They are destined for a second division finish next season as well. Too many holes up and down the lineup.

    And just so I recognize that this isn't all on the players, it would help to bring in a veteran coach to run the power play and penalty kill. It won't happen of course but the team needs another veteran presence that can add some knowledge and an alternative 'voice' to help them become a better team. With emphasis on 'team' because what happened today was a group of individuals trying to do it alone instead of working together. And that won't cut it in any conference.

  2. #82
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    Re: Harvard Crimson 2016-2017: Restoring the Karma Part II

    Skate79

    You are one of the most negative "boosters" on this forum for any team. Yeah, Harvard had their worst season - it was certainly a bummer especially for a program that is usually in NCAA conversation, and even more so for the players that are now part of the "worst team ever". But it is 1 bad year out of what - 18??!!! Give it a rest. Harvard suffered a major talent loss to graduation last season and had several key injuries this season. Also, several of the talented girls who were juniors and seniors didn't play much earlier in their careers because of the quality of the players in front of them and they didn't develop as a result - that was the price of your recent success. The stars did not align this year - so be it.

    Honestly the aura of Harvard women's hockey may be less Bright (pun intended) for the forseeable future as you suggest. But like the men's program before them, they will recover and be good again. Enjoy the success you've had and keep to yourself your unbelievably negative comments about a group of girls (several of which I know personally) that I am certain gave their all this season despite the results and I'm sure feel far worse about it than you do.
    Last edited by HockeyEast33; 02-20-2017 at 09:20 PM.

  3. #83
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    Re: Harvard Crimson 2016-2017: Restoring the Karma Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by HockeyEast33 View Post
    Skate79

    You are one of the most negative "boosters" on this forum for any team. Yeah, Harvard had their worst season - it was certainly a bummer especially for a program that is usually in NCAA conversation, and even more so for the players that are now part of the "worst team ever". But it is 1 bad year out of what - 18??!!! Give it a rest. Harvard suffered a major talent loss to graduation last season and had several key injuries this season. Also, several of the talented girls who were juniors and seniors didn't play much earlier in their careers because of the quality of the players in front of them and they didn't develop as a result - that was the price of your recent success. The stars did not align this year - so be it.

    Honestly the aura of Harvard women's hockey may be less Bright (pun intended) for the forseeable future as you suggest. But like the men's program before them, they will recover and be good again. Enjoy the success you've had and keep to yourself your unbelievably negative comments about a group of girls (several of which I know personally) that I am certain gave their all this season despite the results and I'm sure feel far worse about it than you do.
    Agreed! As a member of Wildcat Nation, as well as a former player, I have experienced the highs and lows, watched some good teams underachieve, and some more challenged teams dig deeper than they thought they had and surprise a few. I have learned to appreciate consistent play over W - L, and as the team has evolved from the lowest spot (yes, we too, missed playoffs a few years ago, and have failed to crack the barrier to the semifinals in Hockey East for many years), and to celebrate to baby steps. It is not easy to climb back to the top, and certainly frustrating to watch at times, but when the bar falls, don't expect it to rocket back to the top overnight. It's going to be a process.
    "A ROCK BAND IS NOT A PERFECT DEMOCRACY. IT'S LIKE A SPORTS TEAM. NO ONE CAN DO WITHOUT THE OTHER, BUT EVERYBODY DOESN'T GET TO TOUCH THE BALL ALL THE TIME." Don Henley

  4. #84
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    Re: Harvard Crimson 2016-2017: Restoring the Karma Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by HockeyEast33 View Post
    Skate79

    You are one of the most negative "boosters" on this forum for any team. Yeah, Harvard had their worst season - it was certainly a bummer especially for a program that is usually in NCAA conversation, and even more so for the players that are now part of the "worst team ever". But it is 1 bad year out of what - 18??!!! Give it a rest. Harvard suffered a major talent loss to graduation last season and had several key injuries this season. Also, several of the talented girls who were juniors and seniors didn't play much earlier in their careers because of the quality of the players in front of them and they didn't develop as a result - that was the price of your recent success. The stars did not align this year - so be it.

    Honestly the aura of Harvard women's hockey may be less Bright (pun intended) for the forseeable future as you suggest. But like the men's program before them, they will recover and be good again. Enjoy the success you've had and keep to yourself your unbelievably negative comments about a group of girls (several of which I know personally) that I am certain gave their all this season despite the results and I'm sure feel far worse about it than you do.
    I'm just telling it like it is Hockey. It's funny that you bring up a talent drain because when I put that out there in the Union thread as a reason for Harvard's demise, I got taken to task by Trillium who felt that Harvard's roster was far more talented than most of the teams in the conference. So it seems that no matter what position I take, someone is going to take umbrage. That's okay. It's what makes for a healthy debate. You're entitled to your opinion.

    Regarding the team, it may surprise you to learn that I know several of the players as well as their parents. They are honest about what happened and are not running from the facts. And I've been honest with them about my feelings. They are totally okay with it.

    The fact is that while injuries were a factor, all teams deal with injuries. Harvard's play this year was substandard on many levels and the numbers I put into my post were facts. And those facts don't lie. If you don't like the tone or think that I'm overtly negative, I'm not sure what you want me to say about a team that only had to win against a team that had nothing to play for and got outplayed in their own building on Senior Night. I'm not going to be a rah rah cheerleader while a team goes on a 15 game winless streak. There are some real problems with the program and while better talent and skill will help, it won't be the cure all. There are other issues that need to be addressed. I don't know if that will happen any time soon.

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    Re: Harvard Crimson 2016-2017: Restoring the Karma Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by DC78-82 View Post
    Agreed! As a member of Wildcat Nation, as well as a former player, I have experienced the highs and lows, watched some good teams underachieve, and some more challenged teams dig deeper than they thought they had and surprise a few. I have learned to appreciate consistent play over W - L, and as the team has evolved from the lowest spot (yes, we too, missed playoffs a few years ago, and have failed to crack the barrier to the semifinals in Hockey East for many years), and to celebrate to baby steps. It is not easy to climb back to the top, and certainly frustrating to watch at times, but when the bar falls, don't expect it to rocket back to the top overnight. It's going to be a process.
    I'm not saying it is going to change overnight. But you don't go from a national championship game to ninth place in two seasons without there being some problems that need to be addressed. To say otherwise is to ignore reality. I don't mind getting taken to task for my comments. Yes, talent is an issue. But I love how no matter what position I take, someone wants to blast me for being out to lunch on evaluating the team, the program, the coaching, you name it. I've been a staunch supporter of the program and have defended Katey and players (Syd Daniels in particular) when others have ridiculed my opinions. I really don't care. You don't like my views, pound sand.

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    Re: Harvard Crimson 2016-2017: Restoring the Karma Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Skate79 View Post
    ... I love how no matter what position I take, someone wants to blast me for being out to lunch on evaluating the team, the program, the coaching, you name it.
    Early in the year, you said that Harvard wouldn't win more than six games. I thought you were just venting and that six was too low a number to be taken seriously. You were totally right and I was totally wrong.
    "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

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    Re: Harvard Crimson 2016-2017: Restoring the Karma Part II

    In the category of help is on the way and admitting up front that I don't know much about future Harvard recruits. I can say that Harvard supporters will be very pleased with 2018/2019 recruit, Lolita Fidler who plays for the #1 rated Minnesota AA high school team, Edina. Next year you will see Kate Glover from Hopkins/Park high school in Minnesota (plays in the same conference as Edina) who is a solid defenseman with some offensive upside.
    Last edited by FiveHoleFrenzy; 02-22-2017 at 09:09 AM.
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    Re: Harvard Crimson 2016-2017: Restoring the Karma Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Skate79 View Post
    But I love how no matter what position I take, someone wants to blast me . . .


    Not to pile on, but defensiveness doesn’t soften the profile. You can be a nettlesome, habitual naysayer, quite nasty about what you’re seeing on the ice. If you could do a word search on this thread for “indefensible,” “inexcusable,” “unacceptable” (!) when reacting to team losses I imagine you’d feel somewhat chastened. Women’s hockey is a game that seems to ramp up the emotions in a special way, but it remains a game nonetheless, played by college kids with more or less talent, dealing with the vagaries of the sport as best they can (including the excellence of their predecessors, as HockeyEast33 points out). I acknowledge your history, passion and general access to information (“Katey” would recognize you in a crowd), and, as ARM says, you can be right-on, but more often than not you sound like an enraged devotee, not an appreciative one. Come in from the cold and join the party.

    But let me seamlessly segue to a different topic, one that may well elicit criticism or defense of the head coach, but my real interest is in getting some perspective from one and all . . . . .

    In 2013, when captain and stalwart goalie Laura Bellamy was a senior, she suited up for the NCAA quarterfinals at B.C., and therefore for what could be her last appearance for the Crimson. Maschmeyer got the start, understandably, but after two soft goals (yes even E.M. could be human) I thought surely Bellamy would be reassigned from door-keeping duties to start the third period, when Harvard was down 3-1 and really seemed to be going nowhere. She would have been no liability, believe me. Well, it didn’t happen, and that coaching decision has stayed with me, sensitive soul that I am. Now, fast forward a bit to last week, a weekend in which two senior and very good goalies are available for two must-win games against a troublesome Yale and a gimme (ha!) Brown. These two goalies had also had to bide their time, given the eminence of Emerance, but in their senior year they also had to make room for the initiation of a promising rookie, who had just come off starting four straight games! Naturally Laing and Tissenbaum will start these last two, critical home games of the season, says I; it’s just a (relatively unimportant) question of who starts which game. So Laing comes out first and pitches a shutout, as they say, while Tissenbaum waits in the wings for Brown. Laing has to be both exhilarated and exhausted after that 5-0 team win (despite the score it was not a piece of cake in the D-zone), thinking it a great ending to a very good collegiate career. So who gets the nod for an equally important Seniors’ Day game the next afternoon? Tissenbaum, every bit Laing’s equal and team stalwart? No . . . we go with Laing again. Goalies answer the bell. So what if we jeopardize her having gone out on top the night before? So what if Tissenbaum ends her exemplary career at the door?

    Tissenbaum could not have scored the two goals needed to beat Brown, any more than Bellamy could have scored the four needed to beat B.C. Both games were honest-to-god team losses. But to me, all three senior goalies (assuming good health - - - the two non-starters were dressed after all) had a needlessly bummer of a final game at Harvard ---- one with a loss that needn’t have had to be hers, and the other two standing at the door.

    So here’s to goalies --- brick walls, dams, colanders and sieves alike --- a very special breed, the willing playthings of fate. But what about a Goalie Whisperer in the head coach’s ear? Don’t get me wrong; I think she’s great, this enigmatic 450 game winner. But goalies are people too. Perhaps the biggest people on the ice.
    Last edited by thirdtime's . . .; 02-22-2017 at 11:01 AM.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdtime's . . . View Post
    Not to pile on, but defensiveness doesn’t soften the profile. You can be a nettlesome, habitual naysayer, quite nasty about what you’re seeing on the ice. If you could do a word search on this thread for “indefensible,” “inexcusable,” “unacceptable” (!) when reacting to team losses I imagine you’d feel somewhat chastened. Women’s hockey is a game that seems to ramp up the emotions in a special way, but it remains a game nonetheless, played by college kids with more or less talent, dealing with the vagaries of the sport as best they can (including the excellence of their predecessors, as HockeyEast33 points out). I acknowledge your history, passion and general access to information (“Katey” would recognize you in a crowd), and, as ARM says, you can be right-on, but more often than not you sound like an enraged devotee, not an appreciative one. Come in from the cold and join the party.

    But let me seamlessly segue to a different topic, one that may well elicit criticism or defense of the head coach, but my real interest is in getting some perspective from one and all . . . . .

    In 2013, when captain and stalwart goalie Laura Bellamy was a senior, she suited up for the NCAA quarterfinals at B.C., and therefore for what could be her last appearance for the Crimson. Maschmeyer got the start, understandably, but after two soft goals (yes even E.M. could be human) I thought surely Bellamy would be reassigned from door-keeping duties to start the third period, when Harvard was down 3-1 and really seemed to be going nowhere. She would have been no liability, believe me. Well, it didn’t happen, and that coaching decision has stayed with me, sensitive soul that I am. Now, fast forward a bit to last week, a weekend in which two senior and very good goalies are available for two must-win games against a troublesome Yale and a gimme (ha!) Brown. These two goalies had also had to bide their time, given the eminence of Emerance, but in their senior year they also had to make room for the initiation of a promising rookie, who had just come off starting four straight games! Naturally Laing and Tissenbaum will start these last two, critical home games of the season, says I; it’s just a (relatively unimportant) question of who starts which game. So Laing comes out first and pitches a shutout, as they say, while Tissenbaum waits in the wings for Brown. Laing has to be both exhilarated and exhausted after that 5-0 team win (despite the score it was not a piece of cake in the D-zone), thinking it a great ending to a very good collegiate career. So who gets the nod for an equally important Seniors’ Day game the next afternoon? Tissenbaum, every bit Laing’s equal and team stalwart? No . . . we go with Laing again. Goalies answer the bell. So what if we jeopardize her having gone out on top the night before? So what if Tissenbaum ends her exemplary career at the door?

    Tissenbaum could not have scored the two goals needed to beat Brown, any more than Bellamy could have scored the four needed to beat B.C. Both games were honest-to-god team losses. But to me, all three senior goalies (assuming good health - - - the two non-starters were dressed after all) had a needlessly bummer of a final game at Harvard ---- one with a loss that needn’t have had to be hers, and the other two standing at the door.

    So here’s to goalies --- brick walls, dams, colanders and sieves alike --- a very special breed, the willing playthings of fate. But what about a Goalie Whisperer in the head coach’s ear? Don’t get me wrong; I think she’s great, this enigmatic 450 game winner. But goalies are people too. Perhaps the biggest people on the ice.
    Beautifully written, well, with the exception of this awkward grammatical mishap: "that needn’t have had to be hers" ("needn't have been," or "needn't have had to have been" work better, although the second option is a bit old fashioned). Besides that tiny miscue, I honestly think you should be a writer. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post. Additionally, you make very good sense with what you wrote. I give you a standing ovation!

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