Wisconsin Hockey, Vol II: Rebuild, Refresh, and Renew!

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey, Vol II: Rebuild, Refresh, and Renew!

I was kind of hoping the shake up in lines this week would reunite the record setting Benilde-St. Margaret's duo of Besse-Labosky.

Maybe we're just saving that for when it really counts.

[WiscDC]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey, Vol II: Rebuild, Refresh, and Renew!

Not crazy at all. If you were ever part of the student section that was routinely filling the 300s, you would be as disappointed as we are about the stark difference in environment.

^This, and I think it's fair to recognize that the Badgers should lead NCAA D-I men's hockey in attendance. I'm not saying that as some spokesman for the Badgers; I'm saying that because it makes sense. When you take into account the size of the university, hockey fandom*/participation in the area, the size of the market, and the competition for both dollars and plain-old energy for following sports teams in that market, I don't think there is a more potent place on the D-I college hockey map. The Boston area is diluted due to multiple schools and major pro teams. College hockey isn't as diluted in southeastern Michigan, but there's still more competition. The twin cities area is bigger and more hockey-mad, but there's also far more competition. As long as the size of the arena isn't the limiting factor in Madison, averaging 8K is far below the realistic potential of the program.

*I feel like a broken record, because the majority of times I've chimed in on this thread over the last several months, I've been saying a lot of the same things. One of those things is how absolutely alarming the disparity is between NHL fans and college hockey fans on campus. When the coats, jackets, and sweatshirts start coming off, NHL jerseys (not including t-shirts) are everywhere on campus, even compared to other pro sports. There are tons of people who don't get into it because...well...they just never get into it (chicken and the egg), even if they are hockey fans.

People who were in my class typically didn't see UW hockey as a big "event" sport unless they really got into it early. I know a guy just 2 years ahead of me who basically went through a different world when it comes to UW hockey - he's not that into hockey, but he was still generally aware of how the team was doing at any given point, and he definitely saw it as the third "major sport" on campus. That's what needs to come back, and it's what I mean when I say that they need to build it from the ground up so people see it as a "thing" again. As tall of a task as that is, the potential is definitely there, and it is perfectly reasonable to describe 8-9K crowds as disappointingly small, even if you ignore the illusions created by arena capacity that make it feel emptier (not that the effects on fans' energy - and overall experience - isn't real).

Also, those "upper reserved" seats should be like $12-15, not $20. That didn't make sense to me five years ago, and it doesn't make sense now. I don't have access to a ton of data on price elasticity, but I find it hard to believe that they get more revenue at the $20 price - which nobody buys because it's so close to the $24 seats - than they would at a lower price. Factor in future returns from returning fans and an enhanced game experience (because of more fans), and it becomes even more worth it.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey, Vol II: Rebuild, Refresh, and Renew!

The attendance thing is gonna take a while... years even.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as disappointed as anyone, but best not to fret over it game to game.

What's important is that the program is in the right hands now and on the right path.


If you (re)build it...

[KaMiGo]

Also, those "upper reserved" seats should be like $12-15, not $20. That didn't make sense to me five years ago, and it doesn't make sense now. I don't have access to a ton of data on price elasticity, but I find it hard to believe that they get more revenue at the $20 price - which nobody buys because it's so close to the $24 seats - than they would at a lower price. Factor in future returns from returning fans and an enhanced game experience (because of more fans), and it becomes even more worth it.

I used to think that too. I had the chance to talk to some people involved in making those pricing decisions and see it in a different light.
It comes down to this, do you think the $20 price point is what is keeping people away right now? Do you think that there are people who say "that ticket isn't worth$20, but I'd buy it for $15"?
If people want to be at the game, they will be at the game; $15, $20, $24 isn't going to make a huge difference.
I think that it has had more to do with record, style of play, personal feelings towards coaching staff.
I think if the team continues to win and puts an exciting product on the ice that there will be people who will pay $20 for those seats.

[WiscDC]

I used to think that too. I had the chance to talk to some people involved in making those pricing decisions and see it in a different light.
It comes down to this, do you think the $20 price point is what is keeping people away right now? Do you think that there are people who say "that ticket isn't worth$20, but I'd buy it for $15"?
If people want to be at the game, they will be at the game; $15, $20, $24 isn't going to make a huge difference.
I think that it has had more to do with record, style of play, personal feelings towards coaching staff.
I think if the team continues to win and puts an exciting product on the ice that there will be people who will pay $20 for those seats.

Almost nobody has sat up there in the past 2 seasons. (Edit: and I can't remember anyone sitting up there yet during this season.) If I'm taking my family to a game, a 24-15 gap presents a far more attractive option than the 20 dollar stiuation there is now. (Multiply everything by 4.) Even when ignoring multiplying prices for families, yes I do see 15 dollars MUCH differently than 20 (25% decrease!), especially when getting in the mindset of a casual fan who doesn't think about UW hockey very often. Remember that most potential fans in this market aren't watching games itching to get down to the arena. They might check it out, see what it's all about, and get better seats next time. The upper deck was packed for low profile games a couple of years ago when they made those seats 11 or 12 bucks (I forget which), and 15 would be a reasonable permenant price. Remember that those are terrible sightlines behind the first row, too.

Edit2: Also remember that "college hockey" around here has turned into just a slightly more popular and expensive version of "college soccer" or something like that. The increased local coverage will help change that, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking this is like the Maple Leafs being bad for a long time.

[Innova]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey, Vol II: Rebuild, Refresh, and Renew!

Do you think that there are people who say "that ticket isn't worth$20, but I'd buy it for $15"?.

Yes. Count me in that group. I have a family of 5. That is a big difference. Especially because we are two hours away, and two of my three kids have games most weekends (the other is a figure skater). I was at the first game this year, with my son and two of his friends. We haven't started our games yet, and the family four pack is the only deal that I see worth making the two hour drive down to Madison for. The free hot dog and soda for those tickets is also a big reason we went.

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey, Vol II: Rebuild, Refresh, and Renew!

Not crazy at all. If you were ever part of the student section that was routinely filling the 300s, you would be as disappointed as we are about the stark difference in environment.


Edit: Get off my lawn

^This, and I think it's fair to recognize that the Badgers should lead NCAA D-I men's hockey in attendance. I'm not saying that as some spokesman for the Badgers; I'm saying that because it makes sense. When you take into account the size of the university, hockey fandom*/participation in the area, the size of the market, and the competition for both dollars and plain-old energy for following sports teams in that market, I don't think there is a more potent place on the D-I college hockey map. The Boston area is diluted due to multiple schools and major pro teams. College hockey isn't as diluted in southeastern Michigan, but there's still more competition. The twin cities area is bigger and more hockey-mad, but there's also far more competition. As long as the size of the arena isn't the limiting factor in Madison, averaging 8K is far below the realistic potential of the program.

*I feel like a broken record, because the majority of times I've chimed in on this thread over the last several months, I've been saying a lot of the same things. One of those things is how absolutely alarming the disparity is between NHL fans and college hockey fans on campus. When the coats, jackets, and sweatshirts start coming off, NHL jerseys (not including t-shirts) are everywhere on campus, even compared to other pro sports. There are tons of people who don't get into it because...well...they just never get into it (chicken and the egg), even if they are hockey fans.

People who were in my class typically didn't see UW hockey as a big "event" sport unless they really got into it early. I know a guy just 2 years ahead of me who basically went through a different world when it comes to UW hockey - he's not that into hockey, but he was still generally aware of how the team was doing at any given point, and he definitely saw it as the third "major sport" on campus. That's what needs to come back, and it's what I mean when I say that they need to build it from the ground up so people see it as a "thing" again. As tall of a task as that is, the potential is definitely there, and it is perfectly reasonable to describe 8-9K crowds as disappointingly small, even if you ignore the illusions created by arena capacity that make it feel emptier (not that the effects on fans' energy - and overall experience - isn't real).

Also, those "upper reserved" seats should be like $12-15, not $20. That didn't make sense to me five years ago, and it doesn't make sense now. I don't have access to a ton of data on price elasticity, but I find it hard to believe that they get more revenue at the $20 price - which nobody buys because it's so close to the $24 seats - than they would at a lower price. Factor in future returns from returning fans and an enhanced game experience (because of more fans), and it becomes even more worth it.

I'm with you 100%. As one of those people who was there in the mid-to-late '00s heyday, back when we had better attendance than some NHL teams, I know how high is reasonable to set that bar.

The big keys, for me, on recreating what once was on the student side:

- The few students who are into it need to bring their roommates, their friends, their bfs/gfs, etc. I won't be so arrogant as to say that my old Crease Creatures group wouldn't have gotten into Badger Hockey if I hadn't encouraged it, but there were always 8 of us in any given year, and a few of them still hold about 4 or so season tickets on Friday nights.

-Do every cheer, be loud, don't be quiet. Try being creative and coming up with your own and see if they stick (you think students started singing "On Wisconsin" with the word "Sieve" out of nowhere?).

-Get the student papers to write about it.

The attendance thing is gonna take a while... years even.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as disappointed as anyone, but best not to fret over it game to game.

What's important is that the program is in the right hands now and on the right path.


If you (re)build it...

Yep. This is the important part.

[gwhinwi]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey, Vol II: Rebuild, Refresh, and Renew!

Season ticket sales are up, but as people have said, it will take a few years to get them back to what we were used to seeing in the building.

[KaMiGo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey, Vol II: Rebuild, Refresh, and Renew!

Season ticket sales are up, but as people have said, it will take a few years to get them back to what we were used to seeing in the building.

here is the data
Madison.com article

If I could ever figure out how to get images linked correctly...here is the direct link to just the graph of ticket figures
https://s15.postimg.org/8uitoczcr/Dashboard_1.png

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey, Vol II: Rebuild, Refresh, and Renew!

They should give away men's 300 level tickets to all the attendees at a women's game, once in Nov & once in January. The seats will go unused anyway, why not get some butts in the seats and sell some popcorn and soda. This would be great exposure.

I wonder what % of women's season ticket holders have men's season tickets.

[gwhinwi]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey, Vol II: Rebuild, Refresh, and Renew!

here is the data
Madison.com article

If I could ever figure out how to get images linked correctly...here is the direct link to just the graph of ticket figures
https://s15.postimg.org/8uitoczcr/Dashboard_1.png

The link was on my post, but you had to click on 'Season ticket sales are up.'

This forum software isn't really very friendly to posting images or links and making them obvious.

[bucky15]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey, Vol II: Rebuild, Refresh, and Renew!

They should give away men's 300 level tickets to all the attendees at a women's game, once in Nov & once in January. The seats will go unused anyway, why not get some butts in the seats and sell some popcorn and soda. This would be great exposure.

I wonder what % of women's season ticket holders have men's season tickets.

By giving away tickets in the 300 section, you devalue the tickets sold in the 200 and 100 levels. You also upset the paying customers when the people in the 300 "giveaway section" start sitting in there seats in the 200 and 100 sections.

[solovsfett]

Season ticket sales are up, but as people have said, it will take a few years to get them back to what we were used to seeing in the building.

Stunning to see how far attendance had fallen. rebuilding the team will be a 3-year plan I think. Rebuilding the fanbase will take twice that long I fear. Maybe more...

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey, Vol II: Rebuild, Refresh, and Renew!

By giving away tickets in the 300 section, you devalue the tickets sold in the 200 and 100 levels. You also upset the paying customers when the people in the 300 "giveaway section" start sitting in there seats in the 200 and 100 sections.

Pick non-marque games where the seats would go unsold anyway. I don't think people would whine about a promotional thing that could help sell tickets in the long run. How many would really take advantage of it, a couple 100?

People should only sit in their assigned seats. Not sitting were you are supposed to should mean immediate expulsion.

[KaMiGo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey, Vol II: Rebuild, Refresh, and Renew!

Pick non-marque games where the seats would go unsold anyway. I don't think people would whine about a promotional thing that could help sell tickets in the long run. How many would really take advantage of it, a couple 100?

If that is the case, why even bother? Is a couple of hundred at a non-marquee game going to make a difference at this point?

**predicted response**
Of course it would make a difference! Every seat that has a body in it is a difference. Get them in the building and let them experience how amazing the Kohl Center atmosphere can be during a great game and they will become paying customers.

**my reply to predicted response**
Maybe...or maybe you **** off the slowly returning season ticket holder base. How would you feel if after a few years of not paying for season tickets you jump back in, only to see the athletic department giving away tickets to games.


I don't know...the only real magic solution is to win, and keep winning.