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Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

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  • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

    Originally posted by unofan View Post
    Well, no shiat. The general public includes the whole population, including felons, by definition. Many felons are legally barred from owning weapons, and would fail to get a concealed carry permit as soon as a background check is run. When you self select a population to exclude criminals, you'll end up with a group that is less criminal.
    Well, first question: How is this self-selecting the population? It's not like people run the numbers for a subset of the conceal-carry population, the statisticians look at the whole group. Second, as to the actual point of self-selecting, that's generally done by state legislatures and the governors of those states as they're the ones who set the rules for who can and cannot hold a conceal-carry permit and not the statisticians.
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

    "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

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    • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
      You have no future in politics. Always Be Consternating. Create the anxiety you then promise to rescue them from. Just watch the Echo Chamber reducing its millions of captives to quivering fetal jelly molds, squeezing their guns and Bibles and hiding under the bed.

      That's what I call statesmanship.
      Hey I'm a Teamster. Grease the right palms and my political future is very bright!
      U-A-A!!!Go!Go!GreenandGold!
      Applejack Tells You How UAA Is Doing...
      I spell Failure with UAF

      Originally posted by UAFIceAngel
      But let's be real...There are 40 some other teams and only two alaskan teams...the day one of us wins something big will be the day I transfer to UAA
      Originally posted by Doyle Woody
      Best sign by a visting Seawolf fan Friday went to a young man who held up a piece of white poster board that read: "YOU CAN'T SPELL FAILURE WITHOUT UAF."

      Comment


      • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

        Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
        If you walk into anywhere with a thigh holster you'll hear the shrieks and go deaf from all the cell phones being dialed "911" at once. Yes, open carry is still legal in ND under very limited circumstances.

        But mainly, because if it's not in my vault I want it in my direct possession. If I stop at a gas station or cafe I don't want to leave it in the car. It's in my vault or I can feel it.
        This is reasoning I can understand.

        Originally posted by unofan View Post
        It's not an increase in mental illness, it's a lack of proper, long-term treatment. The first line of defense for many mentally ill people is jail.

        Reagan closing down the majority of mental institutions (by denying them federal funds) may have been the right call given the conditions in most of them, but like many things he did, there was no follow through to deal with the aftermath.
        Not all the institutions were bad. I took care of patients who had lived in places most of their lives. They were devastated when they were forced out. Many of them had lived together for decades and felt like they had lost their family

        Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
        Again, conceal at home, get in car, drive to remote area, work, drive to town for supplies or lunch, drive back to next remote area, work, go to friends? Supper? Back home?

        Now, to help you see the problems:
        - Having a loaded gun in a vehicle in ND is ILLEGAL unless you have a concealed carry permit.
        - I won't leave a weapon in a locked car unless I'm presented no other choice (like having to go into a government building like a post office).
        Again, I can understand this and it makes sense to me (not the law saying you need the permit to openly have gun in car. I wouldn't want to leave it in a car either.

        Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
        And that's what makes the world great. Like we've talked about. Let the shopkeeper decide matters like smoking, carry, ... and the free-market will handle it from there.

        When I go to a town when I see cops in the parking lot of a diner I know that's where to eat: criminals won't go there, and the coffee must be good. You mean you haven't figured that one out?


        Here's one that'll pop some neurons: I've been told under strong authority that there are a couple Christian mega-churches in Fargo that have select members (former LEOs, or Feds, or HP; and CCL holders) who are carrying during services by permission, dare I say at request, of the church council and pastors. < comment here about clinging to Bibles and guns >
        There have been massive arguments about the church thing within those churches.

        Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
        North Dakota. Shall issue. However ...

        For my Class I had to:
        - complete the application
        - get fingerprinted so they could run me through ...
        - a ND BCI background check (law enforcement and courts), and
        - through the Federal criminal databases
        - attend a class with a state licensed instructor
        - class covers weapons safety, proper handling, and applicable state laws
        - pass the state written exam (covering all the above)
        - go on the range and prove safe and accurate firearms handling*
        From application to finally receiving my license was about 60 days.
        (And I'm a guy who used to have a US Gov't security clearance so they had my prints already.)

        *I'm not a fan of the ND test:
        - target is 8.5 x 11 piece of paper (blank)
        Phase I:
        - target at 7 yards
        - two magazines with six rounds per; firearm holstered with one magazine in
        - go signal given (timer starts)
        - safely un-holster weapon and take aim down range
        - fire first six at target (strong hand)
        - change magazines
        - fire next six at target (WEAK hand)
        - check weapon clear and re-holster
        Must be done in 55 seconds.
        Phase II:
        - target at 15 yards
        - two magazines with six rounds per; firearm holstered with one magazine in
        - go signal given (timer starts)
        - safely un-holster weapon and take aim down range
        - fire first six at target (strong hand)
        - change magazines
        - drop to a non-standing position (one or both knees) <-- my beef is here**
        - fire next six at target (strong hand)
        - check weapon clear and re-holster and stand
        Must be done (standing) in 65 seconds. (The extra time to safely drop and stand.)
        Passing is 70% on target. (One try every 30 days.)

        Sounds easy; but, if you don't practice at least monthly most will fail the accuracy.

        My favorite? The guy the instructor failed because he didn't safely un-holster his weapon. (Dude deserved to fail.)

        **The justification is proving physical capability and stability. To me this is assuming an ambush position.
        If everyone had to do all this, all the time I could care less who got a gun. See below

        Originally posted by BassAle View Post
        I'm not scared of guns dumb ***. I own a gun. I'm scared of all the morons that think they need a gun to be safe.
        Me too. People who get it and have no respect for a weapon but feel big and powerful owning it scare the sh1t out of me. Stupid mentality and more likely to do something stupid with it or not store it correctly putting others as well as themself at risk

        Comment


        • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

          Originally posted by leswp1 View Post
          Me too. People who get it and have no respect for a weapon but feel big and powerful owning it scare the sh1t out of me. Stupid mentality and more likely to do something stupid with it or not store it correctly putting others as well as themself at risk
          Respect the weapon. Be safe with the weapon. It maddens and sickens me to hear stories about "found the gun on the nightstand," "unlocked safe," etc.

          That is the biggest issue, IMO, with gun-owners.

          IF I had a gun*, I'm with Sicatoka: it's on me, or it's locked away.

          *I have no need nor want of a gun right now, mainly my living situation/where I live, but that could change in the future.
          Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
          Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

          Comment


          • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

            Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
            Respect the weapon. Be safe with the weapon. It maddens and sickens me to hear stories about "found the gun on the nightstand," "unlocked safe," etc.

            That is the biggest issue, IMO, with gun-owners.

            IF I had a gun*, I'm with Sicatoka: it's on me, or it's locked away.

            *I have no need nor want of a gun right now, mainly my living situation/where I live, but that could change in the future.
            WOrked in family practice. Part of screening is do you have a gun, is it stored safely. Part of pediatrics is to ask safety questions- do you have child locks on cabinets, chemical cleaners out of reach, do you have guns? Then educate re safety- CHild locks on all the places kids could get in trouble, Remind people kids can climb so need to lock chemicals, remind people to store guns in safe way. There are states that have barred medical people from asking questions about guns either for adults or kids. Too intrusive and ? For cripes sake we ask if you are sleeping with multiple people, doing drugs, etc (yes, people answer to the affirmative!). This kind of paranoid thinking loses me. We are not allowed to reveal anything said in exam room. We can't tell the wife the hubby has AIDs. What exactly is wrong with checking with people and encouraging them to look into how to be safer or if adult being sure to contact their psych person if they aren't doing well and say they have a gun?

            Comment


            • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

              Originally posted by leswp1 View Post
              WOrked in family practice. Part of screening is do you have a gun, is it stored safely. Part of pediatrics is to ask safety questions- do you have child locks on cabinets, chemical cleaners out of reach, do you have guns? Then educate re safety- CHild locks on all the places kids could get in trouble, Remind people kids can climb so need to lock chemicals, remind people to store guns in safe way. There are states that have barred medical people from asking questions about guns either for adults or kids. Too intrusive and ? For cripes sake we ask if you are sleeping with multiple people, doing drugs, etc (yes, people answer to the affirmative!). This kind of paranoid thinking loses me. We are not allowed to reveal anything said in exam room. We can't tell the wife the hubby has AIDs. What exactly is wrong with checking with people and encouraging them to look into how to be safer or if adult being sure to contact their psych person if they aren't doing well and say they have a gun?
              I get and agree with personal gun safety. But at what point do we care about others that happen to be near those with guns. What sorts of classes can they take to be safer when they're near someone toting a gun?
              Go Gophers!

              Comment


              • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

                Originally posted by leswp1 View Post
                There are states that have barred medical people from asking questions about guns either for adults or kids. Too intrusive and ? For cripes sake we ask if you are sleeping with multiple people, doing drugs, etc (yes, people answer to the affirmative!). This kind of paranoid thinking loses me.
                Many of those same states are ones where physicians MUST show women pictures of a fetus before performing an abortion or doing all sorts of other things that most health care professionals find unnecessary and intrusive beforehand. It's pure hypocrisy on the part of right-wing politicians who oppose both abortion and virtually any attempt to further restrict any regulation on firearm ownership.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
                  Many of those same states are ones where physicians MUST show women pictures of a fetus before performing an abortion or doing all sorts of other things that most health care professionals find unnecessary and intrusive beforehand. It's pure hypocrisy on the part of right-wing politicians who oppose both abortion and virtually any attempt to further restrict any regulation on firearm ownership.
                  ND = Notre Dame? If so, you should understand the difference between the murder of a baby inside its mother's womb and posession of a firearm. If not, then, cozy right up next to Fr. Jenkins who apparently doesn't either.
                  CCT '77 & '78
                  4 kids
                  5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                  1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                  ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                  - Benjamin Franklin

                  Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                  I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by joecct View Post
                    ND = Notre Dame? If so, you should understand the difference between the murder of a baby inside its mother's womb and posession of a firearm. If not, then, cozy right up next to Fr. Jenkins who apparently doesn't either.
                    Or maybe he understands the danger of absolutist beliefs on both topics?

                    Comment


                    • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

                      Originally posted by joecct View Post
                      ND = Notre Dame? If so, you should understand the difference between the murder of a baby inside its mother's womb and posession of a firearm. If not, then, cozy right up next to Fr. Jenkins who apparently doesn't either.
                      Sunsets must lose a lot in black and white.
                      Cornell University
                      National Champion 1967, 1970
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                      • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                        Sunsets must lose a lot in black and white.
                        Kep - on this, yes. There can be no compromise. It's immoral.

                        And we'll disagree until the end of our days.
                        CCT '77 & '78
                        4 kids
                        5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                        1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                        ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                        - Benjamin Franklin

                        Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                        I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

                          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                          Sunsets must lose a lot in black and white.
                          That sounds racist. I'm gonna organize a march now, and block highways.
                          Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                          Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                          Comment


                          • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

                            Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                            That sounds racist. I'm gonna organize a march now, and block highways.
                            No you won't, because you're not a ****ing dip**** like the people that actually do that.
                            Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

                            RIP - Kirby

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                            • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

                              Originally posted by bigblue_dl View Post
                              No you won't, because you're not a ****ing dip**** like the people that actually do that.
                              Mighty Whitey! Take the power back!

                              /satire
                              Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                              Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                              Comment


                              • Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

                                Originally posted by joecct View Post
                                ND = Notre Dame? If so, you should understand the difference between the murder of a baby inside its mother's womb and posession of a firearm. If not, then, cozy right up next to Fr. Jenkins who apparently doesn't either.
                                I could deal with the pro-life movement's views on what doctors who provide abortions should be required to do if they would just admit that every move they make and every law they want passed is designed to do one thing, prevent abortions. But instead they couch laws like those in Texas the SCOTUS just overturned in the hypocrisy of saying things like they need to make sure women seeking abortion are medically protected and safe. What balderdash. The fact is firearms in homes with young children often lead to innocent young children to be harmed and killed. Having your pediatrician -- someone a young parent may trust and look up to --offer friendly reminders about putting the bleach up higher than young hands can reach, and making sure stairs to the basement have gates, or the firearm that is meant to protect the family is safely stored away from little ones, saves the lives of children. Or is it not important to make sure doctors help save lives of humans who no longer reside in their mother's womb? I stand by my statement that to do otherwise is pure, utter and complete hypocrisy on the part of the right wing.

                                Oh and by the way I have been, for most of my life, a staunch supporter of second amendment rights and applauded the SCOTUS ruling that assured us the right to private ownership of firearms was guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. But like most thinking people I am always willing to question my own views as the world around us changes. And when it comes to firearms, I see the world around me changing.

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