Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

[St. Clown]

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

Any money from league events like conference tourneys that may or may not have been equally shared in the past and no longer exist now is not the league's problem. It's up to the member teams to solve their own budget issues. Too broke to fly? Take a bus. Travel budget stretched thin, hit the road after the game not another night in the hotel.

Even when Tech was a "drain" on the WCHA, as some former members like to claim, Tech spent the money to keep investing in the team / facilities. New seating in the rink, new suites, new HD video board, new ice plant, more money spent on coaches' salaries, etc. Now that they win more than they lose, they're getting their money back on those investments in terms of dollars at the gates and better recruits on the ice. If WCHA programs are so broke as outsiders like to claim... Well, I don't see any of them dropping hockey and getting out of the game...
Ryan J

For most of the schools in the WCHA, hockey is their only division 1 sport - the standard around which they rally school spirit and student support. They're not going to drop hockey unless things turn truly dire.

I'm not blasting these schools, or saying that they can't compete with the rest of D1, just that they're in a league that's no longer financially appealing to prospective schools that are in leagues like the NCHC or even the B1G Mistake. I won't pretend to know the financial situation of the eastern conferences with the smaller schools, but those are perhaps the only potential schools the WCHA could target for future needs. Your league is just not likely to woo back SCSU or UMD, and could easily lose Mankato State or even BSU should the NCHC decide to poach them because the NCHC has more potential money to offer due to having schools that simply put more butts in the seats.

[Sean Pickett]

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

Pulling on the ol' Devil's Advocate hat (and it fits pretty well):

I thought colleges were to educate 100% of enrolled students, not fund athletics programs for 4% of enrolled students.

Why should the vast majority of students get saddled with rising costs/fees to cover athletics so a few can play games?

I considered going that route, but I decided not to because I believe that colleges are supposed to do more then just educate.

Sean

[davyd83]

Any money from league events like conference tourneys that may or may not have been equally shared in the past and no longer exist now is not the league's problem. It's up to the member teams to solve their own budget issues. Too broke to fly? Take a bus. Travel budget stretched thin, hit the road after the game not another night in the hotel.

Even when Tech was a "drain" on the WCHA, as some former members like to claim, Tech spent the money to keep investing in the team / facilities. New seating in the rink, new suites, new HD video board, new ice plant, more money spent on coaches' salaries, etc. Now that they win more than they lose, they're getting their money back on those investments in terms of dollars at the gates and better recruits on the ice. If WCHA programs are so broke as outsiders like to claim... Well, I don't see any of them dropping hockey and getting out of the game...
Ryan J

Most teams do hit the road after the game on bus trips. Not one team that wasn't flying stayed here after a game. As far as bus vs fly, the five day bus trip to Fairbanks would cost more than the flights. And talk about "bus legs..."

[davyd83]

What arrogance? The WCHA is struggling financially, so it's going to be tough to get any school that has a program with decent success to join the conference until that changes. And those changes have to happen internally before they can even think of finding external (new schools) to help further any sort of league ambition.

The WCHA was set to be a pretty solid league with a nice compact footprint. Then there was the school that said, "We're committed to the WCHA!" Which ranks right up there with, "Read my lips. No new taxes," and, "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan, PERIOD."

[St. Clown]

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

The WCHA was set to be a pretty solid league with a nice compact footprint. Then there was the school that said, "We're committed to the WCHA!" Which ranks right up there with, "Read my lips. No new taxes," and, "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan, PERIOD."

Yup, SCSU chased the dollars. Most teams in their situation would have as well. What else were they going to say when they weren't receiving an NCHC invitation, pout about it?

[blackswampboy]

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

the NCHC has more potential money to offer due to having schools that simply put more butts in the seats.

except for the nacho schools whose attendance has been headed straight south since the formation of the NCHC. oops.
fans in Oxford and KZoo obviously aren't so impressed with the new arrangements. meanwhile, BGSU outdrew Miami State this year--even with our humble WCHA competition and old barn that isn't shiny. ;-)

Miami
2012-2013: 3004
-------------------
2013-2014: 2851
2014-2015: 2698
2015-2016: 2532

Western
2012-2013: 3633
-------------------
2013-2014: 3415
2014-2015: 3264
2015-2016: 2846

[Dirty]

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

except for the nacho schools whose attendance has been headed straight south since the formation of the NCHC. oops.
fans in Oxford and KZoo obviously aren't so impressed with the new arrangements. meanwhile, BGSU outdrew Miami State this year--even with our humble WCHA competition and old barn that isn't shiny. ;-)

Miami
2012-2013: 3004
-------------------
2013-2014: 2851
2014-2015: 2698
2015-2016: 2532

Western
2012-2013: 3633
-------------------
2013-2014: 3415
2014-2015: 3264
2015-2016: 2846

[davyd83]

North Dakota doesn't put any more butts in the seats in KZoo & Oxford than Northern Michigan did.

[St. Clown]

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

except for the nacho schools whose attendance has been headed straight south since the formation of the NCHC. oops.
fans in Oxford and KZoo obviously aren't so impressed with the new arrangements. meanwhile, BGSU outdrew Miami State this year--even with our humble WCHA competition and old barn that isn't shiny. ;-)

Miami
2012-2013: 3004
-------------------
2013-2014: 2851
2014-2015: 2698
2015-2016: 2532

Western
2012-2013: 3633
-------------------
2013-2014: 3415
2014-2015: 3264
2015-2016: 2846

You mean that two teams that both experienced down years on the ice also drew smaller crowds to their rinks than they did during more successful seasons against inferior opponents? I'm shocked that the local fans don't want to show up to support a losing effort.

[blackswampboy]

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

You mean that two teams that both experienced down years on the ice also drew smaller crowds to their rinks than they did during more successful seasons against inferior opponents? I'm shocked that the local fans don't want to show up to support a losing effort.

nope, I mean two teams that always have and always will draw better against teams in Michigan and Ohio. just like Minny teams will draw better against whoever ya'll play out there. this ain't rocket science.
but points for trying, anyway.

[Dirty]

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

North Dakota doesn't put any more butts in the seats in KZoo & Oxford than Northern Michigan did.

Would you like a cookie too?

[Sean Pickett]

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

I'm not blasting these schools, or saying that they can't compete with the rest of D1, just that they're in a league that's no longer financially appealing to prospective schools that are in leagues like the NCHC or even the B1G Mistake. I won't pretend to know the financial situation of the eastern conferences with the smaller schools, but those are perhaps the only potential schools the WCHA could target for future needs. Your league is just not likely to woo back SCSU or UMD, and could easily lose Mankato State or even BSU should the NCHC decide to poach them because the NCHC has more potential money to offer due to having schools that simply put more butts in the seats.

So far the split hasn't put any more butts in the seats of the NCHC schools. In comparing average attendance for 2012-13 to last season only UND had a small (0.7%) increase, while the other 7 had drops ranging from -1.5% to -21.7%. Of the 7 with drops, CC and UMD had all-time low averages, while Miami had their second lowest average, since opening their current arenas. SCSU had their lowest average in the past 27 seasons and their average has dropped each of the past two seasons. WMU and Miami have each seen their averages decline the past three seasons. DU has had their 2nd (2014-15), 3rd (last season) and 4th (2013-14) lowest averages since opening their new arena. UNO was headed the same way as their average declined in 2013-14 and 2014-15, but their FF run in 2015 and new arena reversed that trend last season. Overall 5 (CC, DU, MU, SCSU, WMU) had average attendance figures below their average for the past 15 seasons and another (UNO) was at their 15 season average. Of the remaining two, UND was slightly above, while UMD was 18.8% above their 15 season average due to moving to Amsoil Arena in Dec 2010.

As for the WCHA teams, BGSU, MSU and MTU have seen an increase in average attendance last season compared to 2012-13, while the other 7 have seen declines. Two, UAA and NMU, had their lowest averages in the past 15 seasons while UA has their lowest in 2014-15. Two others, MTU and FSU, had their highest average attendance in the past 15 seasons in 2014-15. Overall 5 (BSU, BGSU, FSU, MTU, MSU) had average attendance figures above their average for the past 15 seasons and another (UAH) was less than -1% off. Of the remaining four, two (UA in 2013-14 and LSSU in 2013-14) had all-time low averages in the past three seasons, but both have seen their average attendance rebound, LSSU the past two seasons and UA this past season. The other two (UAA and NMU) are a concern as both have had 3 straight seasons with declines and both had all-time low averages this past season.

Sean

[SJHovey]

So far the split hasn't put any more butts in the seats of the NCHC schools. In comparing average attendance for 2012-13 to last season only UND had a small (0.7%) increase, while the other 7 had drops ranging from -1.5% to -21.7%. Of the 7 with drops, CC and UMD had all-time low averages, while Miami had their second lowest average, since opening their current arenas. SCSU had their lowest average in the past 27 seasons and their average has dropped each of the past two seasons. WMU and Miami have each seen their averages decline the past three seasons. DU has had their 2nd (2014-15), 3rd (last season) and 4th (2013-14) lowest averages since opening their new arena. UNO was headed the same way as their average declined in 2013-14 and 2014-15, but their FF run in 2015 and new arena reversed that trend last season. Overall 5 (CC, DU, MU, SCSU, WMU) had average attendance figures below their average for the past 15 seasons and another (UNO) was at their 15 season average. Of the remaining two, UND was slightly above, while UMD was 18.8% above their 15 season average due to moving to Amsoil Arena in Dec 2010.

As for the WCHA teams, BGSU, MSU and MTU have seen an increase in average attendance last season compared to 2012-13, while the other 7 have seen declines. Two, UAA and NMU, had their lowest averages in the past 15 seasons while UA has their lowest in 2014-15. Two others, MTU and FSU, had their highest average attendance in the past 15 seasons in 2014-15. Overall 5 (BSU, BGSU, FSU, MTU, MSU) had average attendance figures above their average for the past 15 seasons and another (UAH) was less than -1% off. Of the remaining four, two (UA in 2013-14 and LSSU in 2013-14) had all-time low averages in the past three seasons, but both have seen their average attendance rebound, LSSU the past two seasons and UA this past season. The other two (UAA and NMU) are a concern as both have had 3 straight seasons with declines and both had all-time low averages this past season.

Sean

Without looking, I suspect declines in attendance is widespread across college hockey. Some B1G teams have also seen attendance drops.

[nodak651]

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

North Dakota doesn't put any more butts in the seats in KZoo & Oxford than Northern Michigan did.

UND @ WMU Averaged 3476 in this year's series.
UND @ WMU Averaged 3580 in last year's series.

UND @ MIAMI Averaged 3555 in last year's series. Did not play in Oxford this year.

Sorry for using facts... you are clearly mistaken.

Miami
2012-2013: 3004
-------------------
2013-2014: 2851
2014-2015: 2698
2015-2016: 2532

Western
2012-2013: 3633
-------------------
2013-2014: 3415
2014-2015: 3264
2015-2016: 2846

[MaizeRage]

Re: Sources: Arizona State Hockey Won’t Join Big Ten

The WCHA was set to be a pretty solid league with a nice compact footprint. Then there was the school that said, "We're committed to the WCHA!" Which ranks right up there with, "Read my lips. No new taxes," and, "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan, PERIOD."

The WCHA's "footprint" was an absolute mess with or without St. Cloud. It's telling how badly realignment went that even the better option has been a financial disaster for them, but it would have been even worse if they stayed in the WCHA. Can't blame them for taking the lesser of two evils.