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Thread: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Kinetic energy weapons are very effective. All boom and no radiation (well outside of heat). Imagine an enterprising government starts mining space rocks (or space junk) and starts aiming it at solid ground or in the ocean just outside a major population center?

    Hey, I read too much sci fi.
    Clearly not a real fan though or you would call it SF, not sci fi.

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    Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

    Great.

    Donald Trump's advisers are exploring alternatives to bypass the four-year waiting period to back out from the Paris agreement, a member of the transition team told Reuters.

    The options include withdrawing from the parent treaty, the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, entirely or issuing a presidential order to delete the U.S. signature from the climate deal.

    ...

    In an interview, former French President Nicolas Sarkozy said Europe should respond with a trade war and institute a carbon tax for U.S. products if Trump backs out.
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  3. #363
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    Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Why would that be surprising? America doesn't believe in Global Warming. Or science for that matter.

    And you know what's going to hurt worst? Smart people will stop immigrating here. That's going to sting and leave a black mark so long it'll never be erased.
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    Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    They're planning on undermining our credibility for the symbolic gesture of scrapping a treaty that has no teeth to begin with? Weeeeeeee!

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    Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by GrinCDXX View Post
    They're planning on undermining our credibility for the symbolic gesture of scrapping a treaty that has no teeth to begin with? Weeeeeeee!
    LOL. Words never matter. Certainly explains Trump's Presidency. Thanks for clarifying that again.
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  6. #366

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    Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    Why would that be surprising? America doesn't believe in Global Warming. Or science for that matter.

    And you know what's going to hurt worst? Smart people will stop immigrating here. That's going to sting and leave a black mark so long it'll never be erased.
    I think you are underestimating how many smart Americans will migrate away, to Europe, where they can do real science. This has all happened before. It's how nations go into tailspins.

    Toynbee developed his concept of an "internal proletariat" and an "external proletariat" to describe quite different opposition groups within and outside the frontiers of a civilization. These groups, however, find themselves bound to the fate of the civilization. During its decline and disintegration, they are increasingly disenfranchised or alienated, and thus lose their immediate sense of loyalty or of obligation. Nonetheless an "internal proletariat" may form a "universal church" which survives the civilization's demise, co-opting the useful structures of the earlier time while creating a new philosophical or religious pattern for the next stage of history.

    Before the process of decay, the dominant minority had held the internal proletariat in subjugation within the confines of the civilization, causing these oppressed to grow bitter. The external proletariat, living outside the civilization in poverty and chaos, grows envious. Then, in the social stress resulting from the failure of the civilization, the bitterness and envy increase markedly.

    Toynbee argues that as civilizations decay, there is a "schism" within the society. In this environment of discord, people resort to archaism (idealization of the past), futurism (idealization of the future), detachment (removal of oneself from the realities of a decaying world), and transcendence (meeting the challenges of the decaying civilization with new insight, e.g., by following a new religion). From among members of an "internal proletariat" who transcend the social decay a "church" may arise. Such an association would contain new and stronger spiritual insights, around which a subsequent civilization may begin to form. Toynbee here uses the word "church" in a general sense, e.g., to refer to a collective spiritual bond found in common worship, or the unity found in an agreed social order.
    If Toynbee is right, once decay is noticeable it is already too late. The coup de grāce might come suddenly or take centuries, but once a significant faction within the civilization has turned backwards and burrowed into its nostalgic re-imagining of the past, the civilization is already dead.

    We have been on that road ever since Reagan.
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  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I think you are underestimating how many smart Americans will migrate away, to Europe, where they can do real science. This has all happened before. It's how nations go into tailspins.



    If Toynbee is right, once decay is noticeable it is already too late. The coup de grāce might come suddenly or take centuries, but once a significant faction within the civilization has turned backwards and burrowed into its nostalgic re-imagining of the past, the civilization is already dead.

    We have been on that road ever since Reagan.
    I'm underestimating? I don't think so

  8. #368
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    Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    FTFY. This was predicted by the Washington Post

    The backdrop for these economic shocks: international chaos. Many Trump early-days promises — halting immigration from terrorist-prone countries, renegotiating NATO terms and the Iran nuclear accord, pulling out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership and the Paris climate-change agreement — would open rifts with allies in Europe, Asia and the Middle East.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanTropez View Post
    May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigblue_dl View Post
    I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
    He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West.

  9. #369
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    Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I think you are underestimating how many smart Americans will migrate away, to Europe, where they can do real science. This has all happened before. It's how nations go into tailspins.



    If Toynbee is right, once decay is noticeable it is already too late. The coup de grāce might come suddenly or take centuries, but once a significant faction within the civilization has turned backwards and burrowed into its nostalgic re-imagining of the past, the civilization is already dead.

    We have been on that road ever since Reagan.
    I think it was someone on Face the Nation who said that this could hurt the number applications of foreign students who want to study in the world's R&D Mecca, the United States. These students graduate and often stick around creating a high-paying, high tech job. We won't see that for a few years but it will be too late.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanTropez View Post
    May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigblue_dl View Post
    I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
    He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Yay, trade wars.

    I'll be lucky to have a job in 4 years...

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    Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

    Engineers and scientists playing with nukes back in the 50s. Boys with big toys.

    @AeroDork: Wernher von Braun and his crazy Air Force crew turn night into day with a 3.4MT nuke strapped atop a Redstone during HARDTACK-Teak tests. https://twitter.com/AeroDork/status/...664513/photo/1

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    Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    Yay, trade wars.

    I'll be lucky to have a job in 4 years...
    All of us will be lucky. That's the new reality. It makes me wonder what this country offers it's citizenry and why? If I were 20 again I'd be gone.
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    Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    All of us will be lucky. That's the new reality. It makes me wonder what this country offers it's citizenry and why? If I were 20 again I'd be gone.
    I have suggested to my daughter that she explore opportunities teaching English in other countries. Firstly it gets her out of here until this sh-t blows over. Secondly, she might meet somebody over there which would give her the option of flipping.

    There are at least a dozen countries where I would prefer to live than the US if I were young enough to start over. Not just as a reaction to The Great Mistake, but in general to steer clear of paying taxes to support the Imperial Storm Troopers and the plutes.

    I am only gen 3 on either side. We came here for a better life, more freedom, and more opportunity. My great-grand parents are proof that people vote with their feet.

    America is not real estate, it's the principles in a few documents and a few great minds. If those things have moved elsewhere, then America is elsewhere. This place, for whatever reason, is less America every day.
    Last edited by Kepler; 11-17-2016 at 09:55 AM.
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  14. #374
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    Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I have suggested to my daughter that she explore opportunities teaching English in other countries. Firstly it gets her out of here until this sh-t blows over. Secondly, she might meet somebody over there which would give her the option of flipping.

    There are at least a dozen countries where I would prefer to live than the US if I were young enough to start over. Not just as a reaction to The Great Mistake, but in general to steer clear of paying taxes to support the Imperial Storm Troopers and the plutes.

    I am only gen 3 on either side. We came here for a better life, more freedom, and more opportunity. My great-grand parents are proof that people vote with their feet.
    I wonder what the nation is going to be like when all the science is gone? I imagine it will be similar to what hell is like for those who have already passed on.
    Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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    Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    I wonder what the nation is going to be like when all the science is gone? I imagine it will be similar to what hell is like for those who have already passed on.
    All the science will never be gone, IMO. The US still has a ton of momentum -- it will be around for hundreds of years and it will have good and bad streaks even if the overall trajectory is towards fascism, which then begets worse problems, hence deeper fascism.

    It could be that America was always a pus-sy. Safe between our oceans, rich almost from the opening bell first with land stolen from the indians, then labor stolen from the slaves, and then perfect timing coming into our own with the industrial revolution. We had our ideals but whenever we were even grazed we threw them away (Alien and Sedition Acts, interment camps, Red Scare, Patriot Act). Now, as the future curve of the economy bends down as the rest of the world can finally compete, we choose protectionism and nativist xenophobia. We have not ever been tested to live up to our ideals without failing.

    But America has a big club and it will be a long time until it collapses on our own heads. The Byzantine Empire hung on for an extra 700 years past its expiration date and even had a few flirtations with a second wind. The US will too, but boy is the slide down the razor blade of the future going to hurt the soft tushes of a people that have never experienced the suffering which much of the world takes as a baseline.
    Last edited by Kepler; 11-17-2016 at 10:05 AM.
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    Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Now, as the future curve of the economy bends down as the rest of the world can finally compete, we choose protectionism and nativist xenophobia. We have not ever been tested to live up to our ideals without failing.
    Well, that's inherently the problem. We effectively have no ideals. Cause when faced with defending them we chose instead to run and hide. Sure, we'll stick around forever. The military might appears to be our one ace in the hole because it's the one thing the nativist's forever cling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I have suggested to my daughter that she explore opportunities teaching English in other countries. Firstly it gets her out of here until this sh-t blows over. Secondly, she might meet somebody over there which would give her the option of flipping.

    There are at least a dozen countries where I would prefer to live than the US if I were young enough to start over. Not just as a reaction to The Great Mistake, but in general to steer clear of paying taxes to support the Imperial Storm Troopers and the plutes.

    I am only gen 3 on either side. We came here for a better life, more freedom, and more opportunity. My great-grand parents are proof that people vote with their feet.

    America is not real estate, it's the principles in a few documents and a few great minds. If those things have moved elsewhere, then America is elsewhere. This place, for whatever reason, is less America every day.
    My wife and I only half jokingly looked into what it would take to become licensed in Canada. The barriers are sufficient that it's not worth pursuing at this point (especially with a newborn), but it's feasible enough that if things get worse, we could probably do it if we really felt like we had to. It'd essentially cost us about $3000 each and time studying for a much easier version of the bar exam.

    Considering this nation was founded by immigrants, it is amazing how people react to people even considering emigrating.
    Last edited by unofan; 11-17-2016 at 10:18 AM.

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    Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

    You know its a bad day when Chinese leadership schools your own leadership regarding science (i.e., environment/global warming)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    All the science will never be gone, IMO.
    Agreed. But after too long, there is such a thing as brain drain.
    Go Gophers!

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    Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by unofan View Post
    My wife and I only half jokingly looked into what it would take to become licensed in Canada.
    With friends in both Eastern Europe and Columbia, I could see a 50/50 split. Couldn't hurt my single life.
    Go Gophers!

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    Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    Well, that's inherently the problem. We effectively have no ideals. Cause when faced with defending them we chose instead to run and hide. Sure, we'll stick around forever. The military might appears to be our one ace in the hole because it's the one thing the nativist's forever cling.
    We have ideals -- that stuff they taught in fifth grade civics when I was a kid, and the subject of every Frank Capra movie. The exceptionalism of America is its ideals. The savagery and brutality of a portion of the population is hardly unique to us and it doesn't invalidate our ideals.

    The 3%ers are right about one thing. I doubt whether 3% of the population ever put their lives on the line for abolition or the civil rights movement or the women's right movement. That in itself is OK -- it seems to be the calculus of social change.

    What's new and broken now is that the cowards won at the ballot box. A sizeable portion of the country voted to stick their fingers in the ears. Sure, Reagan was like that, but in that case it was a Pollyanna optimism. This time, it was Moloch.
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