Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

[Kepler]

Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

I never once actually claimed I knew better or preached people had to follow me. Just stated what I did and that it worked for me. You need to do what works best for you, even if it is not conventional.

The thing is, it's not "working" for you because it's statistically a better thing to do. It's "working" for you only because you've been lucky so far, because disease is probabilistic.

Analogy: you're driving buzzed. Medical professionals say you're impaired, but you don't feel impaired, and you think you know your body better than they do. You also feel better about it because you think you have somehow taken control of a very scary thing. But you haven't. It's a psychological illusion.

Bet on science over feelings every day and twice on Sunday. That means accepting that you have almost no control over something as terrifying as danger to your children. Right now, ironically, through your actions, you are taking the one little thing you do have control over -- listening to the science -- and throwing it away.

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

No. I was simply asking the question. How rigid is the schedule?

There are reasons to deviate including medical contraindications which you have not provided in your argument thus far.

Should the doctors make special considerations to get you in to make sure you hit the schedule?

Yes.

But as long as the vax are received in a reasonable manner, what's the problem? The issue I raised is what is reasonable.

What is reasonable is the consensus schedule unless sufficient evidence is presented to alter it.

I never once actually claimed I knew better or preached people had to follow me.

What about when you said this?

There is a smarter way to administer vaccines by simply delaying them so the body is able to handle what it is being given. Doctors have tried to give my kid 7 shots all at once. I said absolutely not.

Or this?

If a parent goes through this and sees it all play out, would you honestly expect them to go through the exact same steps again without changing anything? I'm sorry but it still seems too coincidental about the MMR. Again, I clearly state that I do not think MMR causes autism. But there has to be something that hasn't been studied yet, otherwise they would know the cause. I have my own theories but stating them here would only invite a flurry of attacks on me, as you can see may have started.

Or this in reply to Flag's "super shots."

Last time I went through this, you could avoid it but you really had to be on top of your game and know what you are doing.

You also never addressed how the drastic reduction in antigen expose in vaccines compared to 20, 30, 40 years ago basically torpedoes the "too much too soon" dance you have been doing. I am interested to know your thoughts.

[Tiggsy]

Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

Okay, you got me. I did say there was a smarter way but forgot to include the phrase "for me" in there. My intention has never been to push "my way" and I will take responsibility for missing it and being read incorrectly. It has only been to tell my story before I started getting hammered and my defenses went up. The second example of my post was quite vague so I'm not sure that supports your point. I didn't push anything specific just to think about the steps you went through and change something if it seems appropriate. To you, no changes would be appropriate and that's your prerogative. I didn't see it the same way at the time.

You really spent some time going through all my posts. I'm a little flattered.

Anyways, my question was what is the "grace period" in the schedule? If there are several shots scheduled for an 18 month appointment, how early or late is it acceptable to receive the vaccines before message board folks will claim you're endangering your child? That seemed to be the main thing people were upset at me about, so how long to I have to get them the vaccines? Obviously you are not going to get an appointment on that exact date, nor should it be expected by anyone.

I don't know anything specific about "super shots" and my only point there was that you could break up antigens into single shots, but you had to specifically request it and you have to let them know in advance to see if what you were requesting was available. When we broke up the MMR into 3 shots, it wasn't much of an issue.

You also never addressed how the drastic reduction in antigen expose in vaccines compared to 20, 30, 40 years ago basically torpedoes the "too much too soon" dance you have been doing. I am interested to know your thoughts.

Not sure I understand what your asking here so sorry but I'm going to have to ask you to dumb it down for me. Happy to respond once I get it though. Thanks.

[ericredaxe]

Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

Okay, you got me. I did say there was a smarter way but forgot to include the phrase "for me" in there.

What exactly makes it better "for you"? Please provide scientific peer reviewed evidence and studies, not crazy B.S. anti-vax craziness.

[Tiggsy]

Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

The thing is, it's not "working" for you because it's statistically a better thing to do. It's "working" for you only because you've been lucky so far, because disease is probabilistic.

Analogy: you're driving buzzed. Medical professionals say you're impaired, but you don't feel impaired, and you think you know your body better than they do. You also feel better about it because you think you have somehow taken control of a very scary thing. But you haven't. It's a psychological illusion.

Bet on science over feelings every day and twice on Sunday. That means accepting that you have almost no control over something as terrifying as danger to your children. Right now, ironically, through your actions, you are taking the one little thing you do have control over -- listening to the science -- and throwing it away.

I brought that up a while back if I was just on a lucky streak. You're the first one to actually say that. It's one hell of a lucky streak that I'm working on I guess.

I wouldn't be so dramatic to say I'm throwing it away. Just not following conventions.

Is every medical case exactly the same? Don't bodies respond differently to the similar things? If I'm tempting fate, okay. But in my opinion the risks I'm opening up are less or equal to the risks originally faced so I don't see it that way. I see it as going the safe route. Obviously people don't agree, but my lucky streak has held out and I'm almost done so people can rest assured that I will not have any more kids so I won't be putting anyone else at risk in their eyes.

[Tiggsy]

Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

What exactly makes it better "for you"? Please provide scientific peer reviewed evidence and studies, not crazy B.S. anti-vax craziness.

I still don't get how giving my kids the vaccines makes me anti-vax.

[GrinCDXX]

Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

I brought that up a while back if I was just on a lucky streak. You're the first one to actually say that. It's one hell of a lucky streak that I'm working on I guess.

I wouldn't be so dramatic to say I'm throwing it away. Just not following conventions.

Is every medical case exactly the same? Don't bodies respond differently to the similar things? If I'm tempting fate, okay. But in my opinion the risks I'm opening up are less or equal to the risks originally faced so I don't see it that way. I see it as going the safe route. Obviously people don't agree, but my lucky streak has held out and I'm almost done so people can rest assured that I will not have any more kids so I won't be putting anyone else at risk in their eyes.

What's your basis for this opinion?

[Kepler]

Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

It's one hell of a lucky streak that I'm working on I guess.

Not really, no. It's very much like driving buzzed. Some people do that for fifty years and never cause a wreck, because the odds of any given instance are so low.

Not knowing the odds at all, I'd say you're probably taking a 1-in-10 million per day chance of something and reducing it to 1-in-1 million per day. You're playing the reverse lottery, but you're saying "well I must be doing something right because I haven't hit the lottery yet." That's not a rational way to view it. Risk is likelihood times impact. We're talking about an event with vanishingly small likelihood but catastrophic impact.

We each live on a country road where only one car passes per day. The mailbox is on the other side of the road. Each day we go to get our mail.

You do it blindfolded.

The fact that you haven't been hit yet does not mean what you're doing is right.

[Tiggsy]

Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

What's your basis for this opinion?

This was a long time ago before the Wakefield study was disproved. So that was a factor along with increased rates of autism in children with autistic siblings. Seemed like a no-brainer to me.

[GrinCDXX]

Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

This was a long time ago before the Wakefield study was disproved. So that was a factor along with increased rates of autism in children with autistic siblings. Seemed like a no-brainer to me.

But you still hold the same opinion now that there's no scientific evidence of a link?

[Tiggsy]

Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

But you still hold the same opinion now that there's no scientific evidence of a link?

I believe the increased rates are still peer reviewed studies. That was enough along with the perceived low risk of delaying. Plus no cause has yet been found.

It seemed to work, so I have no reason to doubt it. But everyone else seems to.

[GrinCDXX]

Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

I believe the increased rates are still peer reviewed studies. That was enough along with the perceived low risk of delaying. Plus no cause has yet been found.

It seemed to work, so I have no reason to doubt it. But everyone else seems to.

What you're saying is, going with a modified vaccine schedule seemed to work to prevent your children from developing Autism?

[Tiggsy]

Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

What you're saying is, going with a modified vaccine schedule seemed to work to prevent your children from developing Autism?

Yes. Go ahead and take your one free shot at me now, just don't make it too personal please. I know you want to after I admit that.

[GrinCDXX]

Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

Yes. Go ahead and take your one free shot at me now, just don't make it too personal please. I know you want to after I admit that.

I just fail to grasp how you can both recognize that there is no evidence of a link between Autism and vaccines, while at the same time believing that your modified vaccine schedule prevented your kids from developing Autism. It doesn't make sense.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Science: Vaccines Work, GMOs Are Safe, Everything is a Chemical

I just fail to grasp how you can both recognize that there is no evidence of a link between Autism and vaccines, while at the same time believing that your modified vaccine schedule prevented your kids from developing Autism. It doesn't make sense.

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