Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

[MissThundercat]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Again, it's not coincidence, it's co-opting. The Christian church moved Christmas to December 25 to act as the conversion carrot before turning to the stick. The Pagans all over Europe had their solstice rituals. The Romans were big on their Saturnalia parties (solstice booze fests), which is all Christmas was until 300 years ago, give or take a 100 years.

Which is why I fall over laughing when the fundies on my news feed say "the pagans stole Christmas!"

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Again, it's not coincidence, it's co-opting. The Christian church moved Christmas to December 25 to act as the conversion carrot before turning to the stick. The Pagans all over Europe had their solstice rituals. The Romans were big on their Saturnalia parties (solstice booze fests), which is all Christmas was until 300 years ago, give or take a 100 years.

Most (all?) of Christianity is a reworking of ageless agrarian myths, so you really had pagan solstice ceremonies (which are universal) co-opted by a faith which itself was pagan, dressed up with Neoplatonic philosophy by erudite Hellenstic Greeks embarrassed about the grubby eastern mystery cult origins. The whole rivalry between Christianity and paganism is a hoot* since it's really just Grain God 2.0 fighting with Grain God 1.0.

* Or would be, if not for all the murder and rapine by Christians during the process of "civilizing" the pagans.

Religion is mythology with an armory.

[joecct]

I like it that the timing of Easter is still linked to events in nature. There are intimations of something primeval about it, the whole idea of re-birth in the spring after the desolation of winter (in temperate and cooler climes, at least).

In theory, Easter might occur as early as March 22 or as late as April 25, depending upon whether the full moon is the day after or the day before the vernal equinox, and what day of the week that is.

You know it's tied to Passover as Christ was executed the day after the Seder. It always begins on the 15th day of Nisan, which varies around the Gregorian Calendar.

Interestingly, the calculation of Easter varies between the Western and Eastern churches. Here's an explanation of why.

https://www.infoplease.com/calendar-...le-two-easters

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

This is so dumb it's actually kind of beautiful.

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

President Nixon puts things in perspective.

[joecct]

President Nixon puts things in perspective.

Society of Pius X, not a Jesuit (at least these days).

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Society of Pius X, not a Jesuit (at least these days).

The Bundy Ranch of the Catholic Church.

I guess it's not Cafeteria Catholicism when conservatives do it?

What do you think of this site / piece? This wonderful story could come right out of Don Camillo.

[joecct]

The Bundy Ranch of the Catholic Church.

I guess it's not Cafeteria Catholicism when conservatives do it?

What do you think of this site / piece? This wonderful story could come right out of Don Camillo.

I am not a fan of how the Norvus Ordo was implemented. The music stinks, the altar boys are not an integral part of the Mass the way we were in 1965 or before and the rituals that made Catholicism Catholicism went poof!

On the other hand, Justice Scalia's funeral Mass was an example of how the NO should be celebrated.

I like the Extraordinary Form. I am also think the Anglican Ordnariate is supurb.

I don't think the good Dom Camillo would have liked how the NO was implemented either.

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

I am not a fan of how the Norvus Ordo was implemented. The music stinks, the altar boys are not an integral part of the Mass the way we were in 1965 or before and the rituals that made Catholicism Catholicism went poof!

On the other hand, Justice Scalia's funeral Mass was an example of how the NO should be celebrated.

I like the Extraordinary Form. I am also think the Anglican Ordnariate is supurb.

I don't think the good Dom Camillo would have liked how the NO was implemented either.

Camillo wouldn't have cared if it didn't affect the faithful's quality of life, nor would the guy on the cross he talks to. Much of Christ's admonition of Camillo in the stories is telling him to get over church politics and Do Good.

Now as we've discussed before, I am all for the Catholic Church going all the way back to Trent and giving them the true olde tyme religion. When they make me Pope Gregory XIX (under me all the anti-popes get reinstated and counted -- we can't just rename buildings out of JP2flake political correctness), I'm taking the job seriously and taking the church back to 1580 before the rot had set in. I love the hard core glam music and baroque art and believe they should lay it on thick and Counter Reformation.

But another of my True Religion Reforms will be to remind people that the whole idea of dogma is individual believers don't get to a la carte the liturgy to their whim. To paraphrase Cardinal Parcells, the real religion is what Holy Mother Church says it is. This is just as true when the novelty pulled-out-of-the-schismatic-buttocks styles itself "originalist" as when it is "progressive." After all, the single most dramatic advocate for a return to primitivism in Catholic history was Martin Luther -- remind me again how Catholic conservatives view him?

[joecct]

Camillo wouldn't have cared if it didn't affect the faithful's quality of life, nor would the guy on the cross he talks to. Much of Christ's admonition of Camillo in the stories is telling him to get over church politics and Do Good.

Now as we've discussed before, I am all for the Catholic Church going all the way back to Trent and giving them the true olde tyme religion. When they make me Pope Gregory XIX (under me all the anti-popes get reinstated and counted -- we can't just rename buildings out of JP2flake political correctness), I'm taking the job seriously and taking the church back to 1580 before the rot had set in. I love the hard core glam music and baroque art and believe they should lay it on thick and Counter Reformation.

But another of my True Religion Reforms will be to remind people that the whole idea of dogma is individual believers don't get to a la carte the liturgy to their whim. To paraphrase Cardinal Parcells, the real religion is what Holy Mother Church says it is. This is just as true when the novelty pulled-out-of-the-schismatic-buttocks styles itself "originalist" as when it is "progressive." After all, the single most dramatic advocate for a return to primitivism in Catholic history was Martin Luther -- remind me again how Catholic conservatives view him?

Piepkorn viewed Lutheranism as the reform branch of the Catholic Church.

Fascinating fellow, Arthur Piepkorn.

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Piepkorn viewed Lutheranism as the reform branch of the Catholic Church.

Fascinating fellow, Arthur Piepkorn.

It sounds like you should pay this guy a visit. I suspect you would be friends.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Piepkorn viewed Lutheranism as the reform branch of the Catholic Church.

Fascinating fellow, Arthur Piepkorn.

Which is funny, because I used to know a few Lutherans who felt that modern Lutheranism was just Catholicism Lite.

[joecct]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Kep and I are having a friendly conversation in the Fark thread over The Blessed Virgin Mary.

We both agree she existed. I believe he believes in the Liberty Valence motto of printing the legend.

I contend that too much has happened in the intervening 2000 years to debunk Her reality and exalted status as the Mother of God.

And, May begins the 100th anniversary of the Apparitions at Fatima, Portugal.

[Kepler]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

I contend that too much has happened in the intervening 2000 years to debunk Her reality and exalted status as the Mother of God.

Siddhartha's been going strong for 2500 years. I see your Virgin and raise you a Buddha (and yes, he'd have hated it, but Jesus would probably have hated the converse so that's a wash).

I think Marianism is awesome and has done more to counter the misogyny of the (incredibly neurotic) Christian fathers than anything else. I am all for the story. But please, please keep in mind it's a story. That in and of itself does not mean it isn't important. Law is "just a story," but I think you'd agree it's pretty important.

Even if the baby pictures come out great you shouldn't give them more care than you do the actual baby.

[leswp1]

Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

Siddhartha's been going strong for 2500 years. I see your Virgin and raise you a Buddha (and yes, he'd have hated it, but Jesus would probably have hated the converse so that's a wash).

I think Marianism is awesome and has done more to counter the misogyny of the (incredibly neurotic) Christian fathers than anything else. I am all for the story. But please, please keep in mind it's a story. That in and of itself does not mean it isn't important. Law is "just a story," but I think you'd agree it's pretty important.

Even if the baby pictures come out great you shouldn't give them more care than you do the actual baby.

At one point I saw or read something that related the advent of Mary in the Church as related to the sidelining of a Byzantine Royal- Sister to the king I believe. She venerated Mary and amplified her story in an attempt to re-insert women into the Church. Have read a bunch of stuff on the development of the church not generated by Church historians and it is fascinating to track the various elements that were introduced- celibacy for priests, praying to Saints, communion rules, the Mass, needing a Priest to intervene and give absolution, etc. All very different from what I understand Jesus to be saying.

I have asked a number of people and have not gotten an answer I can understand. How does the Catholic Church explain praying to various Saints (Mary included) and sidelining God? I wonder how they ever got this past the first group they told it was necessary. The Commandment- thou shall have no other Gods before me would seem to say pray to GOD, not pray to others.