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  • Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
    I doubt He would care.

    Jesus didn't seem to really care what you did with your genitals. That seems to be more a thing that the Early Fathers sitting around in their circle jerks dreaming of young boys were obsessed by.

    Celibacy is unnatural and makes priests rape children. The rejection of the physical in favor of a beatific bodiless spirituality is a mental illness. The Church has never been able to get over those twin terrible perversions of own humanness. Don't pin it on The Lord. He doesn't care.
    It doesn't have to be Jesus is all about celibacy - or He's into rape.

    Genitals as you put it were not the central focus of his messages either way. From a morality viewpoint, I would guess that sex is fine as long as its healthy and positive. Adultery and prostitution are not healthy for participants - whether it destroys families or individuals. It comes down to the golden rule and treating people with respect.
    Go Gophers!

    Comment


    • Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

      Why is prostitution not healthy? Does something preclude the use of condoms and having it take place in safe locations?

      Western Europeans seem to think that can happen.
      "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

      "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

      "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

      Comment


      • Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

        Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
        Why is prostitution not healthy? Does something preclude the use of condoms and having it take place in safe locations?

        Western Europeans seem to think that can happen.
        Seems fine for John. Ask inner city teenage girls controlled by pimps. If there was no money, it wouldn't happen. I would be interested to know if other skeptics have that pov...
        Go Gophers!

        Comment


        • Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

          Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
          Seems fine for John. Ask inner city teenage girls controlled by pimps. If there was no money, it wouldn't happen. I would be interested to know if other skeptics have that pov...
          When it's legal, and the woman is of age, pimps aren't going to be as much of a problem. Coercion is always a consideration, therefore writing and executing the laws would have to take that into consideration. That being said, it's legal in Germany and they even provide for "safe" places for the prostitutes to work. I do not have any crime stats related specifically to German hooker harming.
          "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

          "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

          "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

          Comment


          • Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            I doubt He would care.

            Jesus didn't seem to really care what you did with your genitals. That seems to be more a thing that the Early Fathers sitting around in their circle jerks dreaming of young boys were obsessed by.

            Celibacy is unnatural and makes priests rape children. The rejection of the physical in favor of a beatific bodiless spirituality is a mental illness. The Church has never been able to get over those twin terrible perversions of own humanness. Don't pin it on The Lord. He doesn't care.
            Um, no. Celibacy does not make priests rape children. Celibacy does not cause one to want to rape children. Plenty of pedophiles outside of priesthood who are not forced to celibacy. NPR had a really interesting program a few yrs back about why the priesthood was a draw to pedophiles- NOt because they were protected but because priesthood fit the needs for developmental abberation psychologically that pedophiles have. Was a really interesting interview.

            Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
            Why is prostitution not healthy? Does something preclude the use of condoms and having it take place in safe locations?

            Western Europeans seem to think that can happen.
            Difference between a willing woman using her body for a transaction and getting paid and the majority of women who are coerced or selling their body because they have no choice. Europeans have all sorts of protections, rules re safety, diseases, prevention, etc. They also have a much more normal view of sex not the schizophrenic crap our culture does.

            Comment


            • Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

              Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
              When it's legal, and the woman is of age, pimps aren't going to be as much of a problem. Coercion is always a consideration, therefore writing and executing the laws would have to take that into consideration. That being said, it's legal in Germany and they even provide for "safe" places for the prostitutes to work. I do not have any crime stats related specifically to German hooker harming.
              Its called human trafficking and as wiki says: According to the International Labour Organization (ILO), forced labor alone (one component of human trafficking) generates an estimated $150 billion in profits per annum as of 2014.[9] In 2012, the ILO estimated that 21 million victims are trapped in modern-day slavery. Of these, 14.2 million (68%) were exploited for labor, 4.5 million (22%) were sexually exploited, and 2.2 million (10%) were exploited in state-imposed forced labor.[10] Human trafficking is thought to be one of the fastest-growing activities of trans-national criminal organizations.

              In a study called 'Does Legalized Prostitution Increase Human Trafficking?', a consortium of Harvard and European universities found that: 'Countries with legalized prostitution are associated with higher human trafficking inflows than countries where prostitution is prohibited. The scale effect of legalizing prostitution, i.e. expansion of the market, outweighs the substitution effect, where legal sex workers are favored over illegal workers. On average, countries with legalized prostitution report a greater incidence of human trafficking inflows."

              https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/20...n-trafficking/

              https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=1986065

              So if you believe human trafficking is a bad thing then prostitution is a bad thing and while skeptics may be, I have no evidence that Jesus would have been for any of it.
              Go Gophers!

              Comment


              • Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

                There have been an ongoing number of posts blaming the religious with prejudice for a bizarre collection of outcomes. Not saying bigotry doesn't happen among the religious...but it doesn't happen on these boards. If Jews or blacks or immigrants were blamed in the same way the general religious are...folks would be thrown off the boards.

                So I recently found an article by an atheist website that acknowledges an increasing bigotry trend among atheists. Sadly most Christians looking for intellectual dialog have been run off the thread, so where are these atheists who can have an intellectual discussion about faith on a thread about faith?

                A couple of quotes:

                "A few weeks ago, I was searching various atheist-related hashtags on Twitter to see what people were talking about when I ran across a few examples of anti-Christian bigotry on the part of atheists. One was complaining about A&E's reversal of their decision to remove Phil Roberstson by saying that this sort of thing was why he "hates all Christians." Hating someone you've never met simply because they are Christian? Yeah, that's bigotry.

                Seeing this sort of thing on Twitter is not terribly surprising. It would not be an exaggeration to say that I see it almost every time I use Twitter. But this does not make it any less disappointing. I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in trading one form of bigotry for another. I do not oppose anti-atheist bigotry from Christians because I hope to replace it with anti-Christian bigotry from atheists. That is not the goal. At least, it isn't my goal. The problem is the bigotry and not the direction it takes.

                Some atheists are bound to be concerned that the anti-Christian bigotry being expressed by some atheists will be used to strengthen the stereotypes many Christians hold about atheists (e.g., that we hate Christians). They will advise atheists "don't be a dick" without explaining what they mean because they are worried that this kind of thing will fuel the bigotry we face from Christians. This is understandable. It does become a bit more difficult to correct the misconception that we atheists hate Christians when some atheists are loudly proclaiming their hatred for all Christians."

                http://www.atheistrev.com/2014/02/an...-atheists.html
                Go Gophers!

                Comment


                • Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

                  For anyone to think that bigotry by some atheists towards religious groups doesn't exist is to either look at life through blinders or an attempt to sell someone something. The question raised in other threads here has more to with your statements about the motives of all atheists when you've either taken deliberate steps to not understand our way of understanding the world/universe, and instead assigned negative motives to our actions.
                  "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                  "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                  "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

                  Comment


                  • Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

                    So he found "a few" Twitter examples, and it's now, "an increasing trend" according to you? Talk about confirmation bias.

                    I'm positive if I go hit up right wing Twitter or Freep, I can find "a few" examples of the opposite.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

                      Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                      For anyone to think that bigotry by some atheists towards religious groups doesn't exist is to either look at life through blinders or an attempt to sell someone something. The question raised in other threads here has more to with your statements about the motives of all atheists when you've either taken deliberate steps to not understand our way of understanding the world/universe, and instead assigned negative motives to our actions.
                      Finally an attempt at discussion.

                      I have not made criticism of 'all atheists'. I specifically has said atheists are frequently super...I have more close friends that are atheist than Christian. Christians often behave badly. But we don't have any here that continuously dump on others. We have atheists that have blanket criticism of the religious regularly. Pretty much just Kepler.

                      I have referenced doctrine. I have discussed the atheist doctrine which makes no sense to me, but would love to discuss that and other religious doctrine. That type of discussion has been totally replaced by isolated, extremist incidents in a manner that is just religious flaming. And when one tries to defend against said flaming...that individual is flamed further. Its has caused all religious to leave the thread.
                      Go Gophers!

                      Comment


                      • Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

                        Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                        I have discussed the atheist doctrine which makes no sense to me
                        This is basically QED for how you have not understood anything at all. Your statement means nothing. It is the equivalent of saying "I have examined this butterfly collector's handbook for gun collecting, and it makes no sense to me at all." It is a nullity. For the hundredth time, we are not against theism, we're outside it.

                        BTW, I'm still waiting for where I've attacked all believers. The great thing about the Forum is you can go back and look.

                        But that would require work. And intellectual honesty. So I don't think anyone's gonna hold their breath.

                        There is a line in Star Trek, in "Tribbles," I believe, where a character yells at Kirk "You take your responsibilities lightly." To which he retorts: "I am aware of my responsibilities. It is you I take lightly."

                        For the trillionth and last time, it's not "belief" that is silly. It is one particular form of foolish, dogmatic, authoritarian credulity that says "My Way Only," which is of course just short for, "Me Only."

                        The personification of that style of belief is what we're going to see for the next four years.
                        Last edited by Kepler; 01-18-2017, 04:50 PM.
                        Cornell University
                        National Champion 1967, 1970
                        ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                        Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                        • Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

                          What we do in life echoes in eternity.
                          CCT '77 & '78
                          4 kids
                          5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                          1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                          ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                          - Benjamin Franklin

                          Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                          I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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                          • Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

                            Originally posted by joecct View Post
                            What we do in life echoes in eternity.
                            You leave Heinlein's mother out of this.
                            Last edited by Kepler; 01-18-2017, 10:46 PM.
                            Cornell University
                            National Champion 1967, 1970
                            ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                            Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                            • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                              You leave Heinlein's mother out of this.
                              That was Maximus Decimus Meridius. Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife.
                              CCT '77 & '78
                              4 kids
                              5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                              1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                              ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                              - Benjamin Franklin

                              Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                              I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Religion Thread: That's Me In the Corner...

                                Originally posted by joecct View Post
                                That was Maximus Decimus Meridius. Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife.
                                Commodus was a lousy choice, BTW. I know M.A. is the genuine article: a philosopher Emperor. But dude... you had ONE job.

                                For a better philosopher Emperor I'd go with Julian the Apostate because (1) of course I would, and (2) he was actually very impressive himself. He also wrote better poetry which if you've struggled through M.A. in Latin class... not a high bar.

                                For the real stuff, though, there is no one better than Catullus for the light touch:

                                Paedicabo ego vos et irrumabo,
                                Aureli pathice et cinaede Furi,
                                qui me ex versiculis meis putastis,
                                quod sunt molliculi, parum pudicum.
                                Nam castum esse decet pium poetam
                                ipsum, versiculos nihil necesse est,
                                qui tum denique habent salem ac leporem,
                                si sunt molliculi ac parum pudici
                                et quod pruriat
                                incitare possunt,
                                non dico pueris, sed his pilosis,
                                qui duros nequeunt movere lumbos.
                                Vos quod milia multa basiorum
                                legistis, male me marem putatis?
                                Paedicabo ego vos et irrumabo.
                                Last edited by Kepler; 01-19-2017, 01:10 AM.
                                Cornell University
                                National Champion 1967, 1970
                                ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                                Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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