Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

I agree. Someone isn't listening fully. I believe he does a complete overhaul of payroll taxes to balance it out.

Well look who is the one posting it...he cant be bothered to read 3 sentence posts here you think he can read the fine details of a tax plan

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

I agree. Someone isn't listening fully. I believe he does a complete overhaul of payroll taxes to balance it out.

And I've asked you several times to post something as to how that works, because I find it odd that he's on the one hand proposing raising payroll taxes, but then in a separate proposal getting rid of them. Why pay for a proposal with a tax you're not going to have?

If Bernie can't answer this simple question, the Republicans will for him. I'm glad that you and Kep are taking it on faith. That's not going to be good enough for the general public IMHO.

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

Here is a start on a real analysis. Tax Foundation has an avowed agenda (they are of the Club for Growth, taxes are bad, particularly on the rich school) which renders their "dynamic projections" worthless, however their definitions are clear and their analysis is for the most part pretty smart. They ask the right questions, anyway.

Here is a more friendly but less exhaustive analysis, limited to corporate taxes.

I'm disappointed Brookings or another liberal think tank hasn't given Sanders a complete once-over for his full tax proposals, which actually seem detailed compared to the vaporware the other candidates on both sides are serving up. Or maybe they have and I just can't find them.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

And I've asked you several times to post something as to how that works, because I find it odd that he's on the one hand proposing raising payroll taxes, but then in a separate proposal getting rid of them. Why pay for a proposal with a tax you're not going to have?

If Bernie can't answer this simple question, the Republicans will for him. I'm glad that you and Kep are taking it on faith. That's not going to be good enough for the general public IMHO.

Bernie's not getting nominated. Hillary is. Then she blows it. Again.

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

And I've asked you several times

You take this line with a lot of posters, so let me give some advice. Speaking as someone who has been (mistakenly, of course) called arrogant, you aren't a prosecutor and while you may think you're winning a rhetorical point when you play this card you're really only sounding like a dick. So, since you're not a dick, you should probably learn to watch your tone so as not to give a false impression.

Honey > vinegar. It works.

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

You take this line with a lot of posters, so let me give some advice. Speaking as someone who has been (mistakenly, of course) called arrogant, you aren't a prosecutor and while you may think you're winning a rhetorical point when you play this card you're really only sounding like a dick. So, since you're not a dick, you should probably learn to watch your tone so as not to give a false impression.

Honey > vinegar. It works.

You are of course assuming he wants a real discussion and isnt just playing up his version of Faux talking points. Nothing he posts tells me he wants to actually converse on topics, he is just poking the bear to get his jollies.

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

You take this line with a lot of posters, so let me give some advice. Speaking as someone who has been (mistakenly, of course) called arrogant, you aren't a prosecutor and while you may think you're winning a rhetorical point when you play this card you're really only sounding like a dick. So, since you're not a dick, you should probably learn to watch your tone so as not to give a false impression.

Honey > vinegar. It works.

Kep, as much as I appreciate your advice, I'm not trying to win a rhetorical argument. I'm trying to make Sanders and his supporters understand what he's put on paper thus far as a proposal. Scoobs is a good guy, but you can't walk into an election with an "oh, don't worry about the numbers not adding up" attitude and expect the Republicans to not eviscerate him over it and have that resonate with the non-Democracy Now crowd.

What you've posted is good, and no offense it has taken you a little while it seems to take a look at what exactly Sanders is proposing tax wise, but it didn't address the point raised that he's eliminating payroll taxes in a separate proposal. I've yet to see that proposal, so me asking for it if it keeps getting brought up doesn't make me a dick (not that I'm not but asking people to show me where this plan they keep referring to is doesn't make me a jerk).

But, onto what you've posted, and I agree we can disregard dynamic impacts or their GDP estimates and stick to the concrete stuff...

Details of the Plan

Individual Income Tax Changes
•Adds four new income tax brackets for high-income households, with rates of 37 percent, 43 percent, 48 percent, and 52 percent. Sounds good.
•Taxes capital gains and dividends at ordinary income rates for households with income over $250,000. Yup
•Creates a new 2.2 percent “income-based [health care] premium paid by households.” This is equivalent to increasing all tax bracket rates by 2.2 percentage points, and would raise the top marginal income tax rate to 54.2 percent. Don't get it. Why are we raising taxes on the people in the 10% bracket?

Payroll Tax Changes
•Creates a new 6.2 percent employer-side payroll tax on all wages and salaries. This is referred to by the campaign as an “income-based health care premium paid by employers.” Disaster. Someone making 18K a year just got whacked with another 6.2% out of their income. Maybe, maybe they save on health care costs but maybe not. They're definitely losing the money, with a vague possibility of lower costs.
•Creates a 0.2 percent employer-side payroll tax and 0.2 percent employee-side payroll tax, to fund a new family and medical leave trust fund. Don't get this either. More money out of the paychecks of the working poor.
•Applies the Social Security payroll tax to earnings over $250,000, a threshold which is not indexed for wage inflation. Good proposal provided he plows it back into the program which I have every reason to believe he will.

So to sum up, I'm on board with many of his proposals. But some major ones are horrific. He's GOT to lose that payroll tax increase for everybody or he's toast.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

Rubio's in second in NH. Even the supposed discerning NH voters are fulling for his empty BS.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/04/politi...ampshire-repub

It's hopeless. We'll go through another cycle without a true believer at the top of the GOP ticket. Which is what we need for them to finally learn and stop it.

[BassAle]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

•Creates a new 2.2 percent “income-based [health care] premium paid by households.” This is equivalent to increasing all tax bracket rates by 2.2 percentage points, and would raise the top marginal income tax rate to 54.2 percent. Don't get it. Why are we raising taxes on the people in the 10% bracket?

Is their healthcare free right now? Plenty of people pay more than 2.2% of their income on health insurance. This would be a _good deal_ for them, lots of lower income people would love that.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

Is their healthcare free right now? Plenty of people pay more than 2.2% of their income on health insurance. This would be a _good deal_ for them, lots of lower income people would love that.

I'm getting raped for a hell of a lot more than 2.2%.

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

Rubio's in second in NH. Even the supposed discerning NH voters are fulling for his empty BS.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/04/politi...ampshire-repub

It's hopeless. We'll go through another cycle without a true believer at the top of the GOP ticket. Which is what we need for them to finally learn and stop it.

You know what the problem with that is -- right now the two major party nominees start with 45%, just on the strength of the people who will pull the lever for the letter. That puts whatever Epsilon-minus the Tea Party dredged up from the Neolithic Id just one heart flutter from the launch codes. No way.

The right half of the Republican party is an existential threat to life on Earth. They can finally have their nominee in 20 years when the GOP has a 30 point ceiling in the national election. Until then, may the GOP Establishment bless you and keep you, we can't allow anyone that morally and intellectually deficient anywhere near real power.

[St. Clown]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

Has anybody else heard the socialist's paradise song that Bernie supposedly recorded a few years ago? I was listening to the morning radio show today and they played it, claiming it was tough to find as Bernie's people were working to rid it from the web. I couldn't tell if it was a bit or something real because the radio doesn't have a very good speaker. I might look for it when I get home tonight. It was funny in that unintentionally self aggrandizing way which is really why I think it was a bit.

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

You are of course assuming he wants a real discussion and isnt just playing up his version of Faux talking points. Nothing he posts tells me he wants to actually converse on topics, he is just poking the bear to get his jollies.

Rover's not a troll. He plays rhetorical games sometimes, and I don't know why he does that in this environment, which is more like friends sitting around drinking beers and jokingly giving the finger to each other and where if you play his rhetorical games this happens, but he's sincere about what he's saying, even when what he's saying is BSABSVH.

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

Has anybody else heard the socialist's paradise song that Bernie supposedly recorded a few years ago? I was listening to the morning radio show today and they played it, claiming it was tough to find as Bernie's people were working to rid it from the web.

"This Land is Your Land" is pretty popular; it's not going anywhere.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

You know what the problem with that is -- right now the two major party nominees start with 45%, just on the strength of the people who will pull the lever for the letter. That puts whatever Epsilon-minus the Tea Party dredged up from the Neolithic Id just one heart flutter from the launch codes. No way.

The right half of the Republican party is an existential threat to life on Earth. They can finally have their nominee in 20 years when the GOP has a 30 point ceiling in the national election. Until then, may the GOP Establishment bless you and keep you, we can't allow anyone that morally and intellectually deficient anywhere near real power.

Nope. I can't accept this premise. This premise assumes that if we finally nominate a true believer on the GOP side to finally flush them out that he/she/it will get elected. And if he/she/it gets elected it will be the end of the world.

I find Rubio the end of the world. I find GW Bush the end of the world. Cause when we elect those kind of Republicans NO ONE LEARNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!