Big Ten > NCHC

[Tiggsy]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

I just checked your posts and you are on here all night and day. That's why you're following this thread. You have nothing better to do. Like pretty much everyone who is ever on a message board. You would have jumped into the fray if you had any type of defense, but you don't so instead you just whine about how bad the thread is. No one is holding you hostage. You can go to the rep retirement lodge and exchange good mornings with everyone for a couple hours if you find that more enjoyable.

Defense? What needs defending here? One guy is pushing his points and several husky fans are arguing with him while the rest of us are sitting back and interjecting occasionally. Don't respond to him and he will stop, but that is the whole point of a message board so I'm not the least bit surprised this has continued. Just interesting that the ones arguing the most with this guy are husky fans. Doesn't really mean anything, just an observation.

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Defense? What needs defending here? One guy is pushing his points and several husky fans are arguing with him while the rest of us are sitting back and interjecting occasionally. Don't respond to him and he will stop, but that is the whole point of a message board so I'm not the least bit surprised this has continued. Just interesting that the ones arguing the most with this guy are husky fans. Doesn't really mean anything, just an observation.

I noticed that, too, Tiggsy. But my guess is part of it is that I respect UND and haven't taken any shots at them so far. I don't respect SCSU and took a few shots at them, and seeing as they are ranked #1 and probably feel that they deserve to be respected and feel dissed by my more than any other NCHC program, and with their being #1, their fans are all fired up, while there is no reason for WMU or UNO fans to be fired up. And UMD came in 2nd last year and it wasn't even close to their first trip to the Frozen Four or the Championship game, so their expectations are probably higher than a JBSU fan's expectations would be.

As for the Gopher fans interjecting their opinions and dissing me? LOL, that's simple, they are so used to being good and ranked highly every season, or at least ranked better than SCSU, that they are all gun shy now. The other Minnesota teams have been whipping on them recently and they all feel Lucia is at least partly at fault, so they don't have any confidence in their team and probably believe they will get swept by SCSU this weekend, and are ****ed at me for getting JBSU fans all riled up because they don't want to have to deal with all of the smack they will get going forward. But Gopher fans have picked on SCSU fans FOREVER, so they deserve all the flack they might get from SCSU fans and from NCHC fans as well.

98% of Gopher fans don't want anything good happening in SCSU's hockey program. I'm part of the other 2%. I cheer for all Minnesota based schools, I just happen to favor UMn in every single instance they run into each other, which only happens in college hockey. So if SCSU sweeps my Gophers this weekend, I won't be as depressed by it as most Gopher fans will be. And I suspect a lot of Gopher hockey fans are hoping that SCSU sweeps us, because that would be another nail in Lucia's coffin. I haven't totally given up on Lucia yet and I have hopes that my Gophers might be able to pull off a split with SCSU this weekend, and I'd consider that sort of a win for the Gophers and sort of a loss for SCSU, at least as far as rankings and seeding goes.

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

What I take from this post is that you're calling the B1G Mistake the collective Craig Dahl of leagues. The schools can bring in the talent, but can't form a cohesive team between them to win the big prize, just like a certain former SCSU coach during the early 00's.

That is NOT what I am saying. What I am suggesting is that the disruption and discontinuity that results from lots of early departures results in struggling to put together a cohesive team to win the big prize, which is not like Mr. Dahl, at ahl. Dahl didn't lose lots of players to the NHL, at least not the quality of players that Minnesota lost.

Minnesota, after winning Titles in 02 and 03, started losing its top players early, and evidence of this can be seen with what those players that left early have done in the NHL.

Vanek, Wheeler, Kessel, Martin, Okposo, Goligoski, Leddy, Johnson, Bjugstad, Haula, Schmidt, Reilly & Skjei ALL left early, PK, EJ & NL all left after 1 season and Vanek after 2.

Okposo actually left part way through his 2nd season.

Martin left after the 03 season.
Vanek left after the 04 season............... What would have been his Sr season at UMn he was scoring 48 pts in the NHL and 84 the year after that.
Kessel left after the 06 season............... What would have been his So season at UMn he was scoring 29 pts in the NHL and 60 in what would have been his Sr season at UMn.
Johnson left after the 07 season.
Goligoski lft after the 07 season............. What would have been his Sr season at UMn he was scoring 2 or 20 pts in the NHL. Not sure if the 2 were from 07 playoffs or from 08?
Wheeler left after the 08 season............. What would have been his Sr season at UMn he was scoring 45 pts in the NHL.
Okposo left during the 08 season............ What would have been his Jr season at UMn he was scoring 39 pts in the NHL and 52 in what would have been his Sr season at UMn.
N Leddy left after the 10 season............. What would have been his Jr season at UMn he was scoring 37 pts in the NHL and 18 in what would have been his Sr season at UMn.
Bjgstad left after the 13 season.............. What would have been his Sr season at UMn he was scoring 38 pts in the NHL.
E Haula left after the 13 season.............. What would have been his Sr season at UMn he was scoring 15 pts in the NHL.
Schmdt left after the 13 season.............. What would have been his Sr Season at UMn he was scoring 6 pts in the NHL.
M Reilly left after the 15 season.............. What would have been his Sr season at UMn he was scoring 1 pt in the NHL. He scored 7 pts the ssn before, guessing in the playoffs?
B Skjei left after the 15 season............... What would have been his Sr season at UMn he was scoring 39 pts in the NHL.

Now I'm probably not going to look up the same info for NCHC teams, but I'd be willing to bet some cash that none of them could match those #s. UND might come close, but they'd be the only school that could come close.


And if you'll notice there is a gap, from 11-13 when the Gopher's didn't lose any underclassmen, and GO FIGURE, they made the Frozen Four in 2012 and were a #1 seed going into the 2013 playoffs and got upset by a Yale team that proved by winning 3 more games and winning the Title that they were obviously underrated that season.

The only thing that didn't go along with the script was the run to the Title game in 2014, but in light of the losses after the 2013 season, you can ask, most Gopher fans were surprised that the Gophers did that well in the tourney. That season probably saved Lucia's job through to now, unfortunately in many Gopher fans opinions I bet?

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Fred probably has enough material for a book by now. He can sell it at Mariucci in the concourse like the guy that wrote that book about "the code".

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

Now I'm probably not going to look up the same info for NCHC teams, but I'd be willing to bet some cash that none of them could match those #s. UND might come close, but they'd be the only school that could come close.

Why do you keep bring up teams from the last decade? That has nothing to do with the Big Ten and NCHC. And we have already determined that recently, the U of M and its fellow B1G teams aren't struggling because of early departures any more than the NCHC is. Stay on topic, genius.

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Why do you keep bring up teams from the last decade? That has nothing to do with the Big Ten and NCHC. And we have already determined that recently, the U of M and its fellow B1G teams aren't struggling because of early departures any more than the NCHC is. Stay on topic, genius.

Yes they are. The teams that formed the B1G and the NCHC existed before those 2 conferences were formed.

The formation of those conferences did not instantly change the teams in them, they had the same coaches, the same players minus players that graduated or left early, and they played in the same rinks and in front of mostly the same fans.

So what was going on with those programs BEFORE they entered their new conferences had a DIRECT affect on how they did once they joined their new conferences.


And when I posted the #s of early departures the last 4-5 seasons, B1G teams lost MORE per team than NCHC teams did. Just because you prefer to deny that reality doesn't mean its not the reality.

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Fred probably has enough material for a book by now. He can sell it at Mariucci in the concourse like the guy that wrote that book about "the code".

To be honest Tipsy, I was thinking about putting out a book, but never decided to make the extra time commitment that would have been needed, as I got distracted with a small business I started up.

I still have an idea/concept for a book, but probably won't do it unless Ross Bernstein wants to do it with me. lol

[St. Clown]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

To be honest Tipsy, I was thinking about putting out a book, but never decided to make the extra time commitment that would have been needed, as I got distracted with a small business I started up.

And not staying on point. That distracts you a lot in your diatribes.

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

And not staying on point. That distracts you a lot in your diatribes.

Staying on point or looking at the world with too narrow of a scope? The world is a complex place.

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Of course JBSU fans LOVE the idea of pretending history started the year the NCHC and B1G conferences were formed, because Gopher fans saw the move as the likely end to what was previously a very good thing, especially for the Gophers. The old WCHA was not so kind to the likes of JBSU as their almost blank resume leading up to the season before its breaking up showed. Now they think everyone should be forced to go back to the starting line, everything equal?? lol But it never has been equal and never will be. SCSU has always been JBSU and that might change, as soon as this season maybe even, but hockey is all SCSU has, so I'd be an ashhole if I cheered against them. I hope they do rise up and become a power. As a Gopher fan I can always enjoy the Women's hockey team or one of the basketball teams. But Minnesota has been The Flagship Entity for The State of Hockey for a very long time, and will never go away, and will rise up again even despite the obstacles moving to the B1G brought on. I don't believe or think that the University of Minnesota will give up on men's hockey like it did football back in the late 60s/early 70s. I suppose SCSU and NCHC fans hope they do, but they shouldn't, because a strong Minnesota hockey program is good for college hockey.

[icehawk]

That is NOT what I am saying. What I am suggesting is that the disruption and discontinuity that results from lots of early departures results in struggling to put together a cohesive team to win the big prize, which is not like Mr. Dahl, at ahl. Dahl didn't lose lots of players to the NHL, at least not the quality of players that Minnesota lost.

Minnesota, after winning Titles in 02 and 03, started losing its top players early, and evidence of this can be seen with what those players that left early have done in the NHL.

Vanek, Wheeler, Kessel, Martin, Okposo, Goligoski, Leddy, Johnson, Bjugstad, Haula, Schmidt, Reilly & Skjei ALL left early, PK, EJ & NL all left after 1 season and Vanek after 2.

Okposo actually left part way through his 2nd season.

Martin left after the 03 season.
Vanek left after the 04 season............... What would have been his Sr season at UMn he was scoring 48 pts in the NHL and 84 the year after that.
Kessel left after the 06 season............... What would have been his So season at UMn he was scoring 29 pts in the NHL and 60 in what would have been his Sr season at UMn.
Johnson left after the 07 season.
Goligoski lft after the 07 season............. What would have been his Sr season at UMn he was scoring 2 or 20 pts in the NHL. Not sure if the 2 were from 07 playoffs or from 08?
Wheeler left after the 08 season............. What would have been his Sr season at UMn he was scoring 45 pts in the NHL.
Okposo left during the 08 season............ What would have been his Jr season at UMn he was scoring 39 pts in the NHL and 52 in what would have been his Sr season at UMn.
N Leddy left after the 10 season............. What would have been his Jr season at UMn he was scoring 37 pts in the NHL and 18 in what would have been his Sr season at UMn.
Bjgstad left after the 13 season.............. What would have been his Sr season at UMn he was scoring 38 pts in the NHL.
E Haula left after the 13 season.............. What would have been his Sr season at UMn he was scoring 15 pts in the NHL.
Schmdt left after the 13 season.............. What would have been his Sr Season at UMn he was scoring 6 pts in the NHL.
M Reilly left after the 15 season.............. What would have been his Sr season at UMn he was scoring 1 pt in the NHL. He scored 7 pts the ssn before, guessing in the playoffs?
B Skjei left after the 15 season............... What would have been his Sr season at UMn he was scoring 39 pts in the NHL.

Now I'm probably not going to look up the same info for NCHC teams, but I'd be willing to bet some cash that none of them could match those #s. UND might come close, but they'd be the only school that could come close.


And if you'll notice there is a gap, from 11-13 when the Gopher's didn't lose any underclassmen, and GO FIGURE, they made the Frozen Four in 2012 and were a #1 seed going into the 2013 playoffs and got upset by a Yale team that proved by winning 3 more games and winning the Title that they were obviously underrated that season.

The only thing that didn't go along with the script was the run to the Title game in 2014, but in light of the losses after the 2013 season, you can ask, most Gopher fans were surprised that the Gophers did that well in the tourney. That season probably saved Lucia's job through to now, unfortunately in many Gopher fans opinions I bet?

This list of early departures since 2000 is from siouxsports.com. May be missing a couple.


Very long list:

Lee Goren

Bryan Lundbohm

Ryan Bayda

Travis Roche

Mike Commodore

David Hale

Brandon Bochensk
James Massen

Zach Parise

Matt Greene

Brady Murray

Drew Stafford

Matt Smaby

Rastislav Spirko

Travis Zajac

T.J. Oshie

Jonathan Toews

Brian Lee

Taylor Chorney

Jason Gregoire

Brett Hextall

David Toews

Corey Fienhage

Brock Nelson

Rocco Grimaldi

Jordan Schmaltz

Nick Schmaltz

Luke Johnson

Paul Ladue

Troy Stecher

Keaton Thompson

Zane McIntyre

Brock Boeser

Tucker Poolman

Tyson Jost

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

This list of early departures since 2000 is from siouxsports.com. May be missing a couple.


Very long list:

Lee Goren

Bryan Lundbohm

Ryan Bayda

Travis Roche

Mike Commodore

David Hale

Brandon Bochensk
James Massen

Zach Parise

Matt Greene

Brady Murray

Drew Stafford

Matt Smaby

Rastislav Spirko

Travis Zajac

T.J. Oshie

Jonathan Toews

Brian Lee

Taylor Chorney

Jason Gregoire

Brett Hextall

David Toews

Corey Fienhage

Brock Nelson

Rocco Grimaldi

Jordan Schmaltz

Nick Schmaltz

Luke Johnson

Paul Ladue

Troy Stecher

Keaton Thompson

Zane McIntyre

Brock Boeser

Tucker Poolman

Tyson Jost

So they left early, so what? I mean, without evidence that they did something the years that they otherwise would have been playing for their college team, its meaningless, except to pad the # of players drafted by the NHL stats.

But that could explain UND's 15 year Title drought including only 1 trip to the Title game for the last 14 of those 15 seasons?

UND is the one NCHC team I'd say was an NHL factory like UMn, UW & Michigan are. And you can thank a Gopher in part for that. Blais getting UND to 3 title games over those 5 seasons, 1997-2001, got the attention of NHL scouts that were paying more and more attention to the college hockey ranks, thanks again to UMn's contributions to the overall good of American hockey over the years.


An I will definitely give you Brock Boeser for sure. No need to show me his stats, but the rest? And I did acknowledge that UND would probably come close. But no one else. I've never had much of anything but respect for UND's Men's hockey program. For the most part.

[wolverineTrumpet]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Why do you keep bring up teams from the last decade? That has nothing to do with the Big Ten and NCHC. And we have already determined that recently, the U of M and its fellow B1G teams aren't struggling because of early departures any more than the NCHC is. Stay on topic, genius.

This thread seems pointless and fun. I want to play along.

Michigan losses a ton of talent early every year. I'm going to argue that they do struggle more than NCHC teams because of the top talent lost with eligibility left every year. Now, like others in this thread, I'm going to argue this based on information for one side only, because I don't care to look up/learn about the NCHC teams and what players they may have lost.

The 2015-2016 season Michigan was a win away from the Frozen Four. With 3 Hobey top 10 finalists, you might expect better results (perhaps with great goaltending we would have). The following year Michigan's top line had all gone pro, all of them with eligibility left. No more Conner, Compher, Motte line to light up opponents. Add to that the top D pair going pro as well (1 a sophomore, 1 a junior), and you're left with a rather gutted team. Yes, it's Michigan and one has come to expect top talent to leave after a few seasons. However, there is a difference between losing a Junior and losing a Freshman, and losing a top scoring freshman 2 years in a row.

Picture for a moment that this could have been Dylan Larkin's senior year and Kyle Conner's junior year and Zach Werenski's senior year.

So, while I have no idea what early departures have done to NCHC teams, I know what my team is without. Of course, I'd rather have an amazing player for one year than not have them at all.

The fact is that B1G schools can recruit the kind of talent that is ready for the NHL after a season or two.

[icehawk]

So they left early, so what? I mean, without evidence that they did something the years that they otherwise would have been playing for their college team, its meaningless, except to pad the # of players drafted by the NHL stats.

But that could explain UND's 15 year Title drought including only 1 trip to the Title game for the last 14 of those 15 seasons?

UND is the one NCHC team I'd say was an NHL factory like UMn, UW & Michigan are. And you can thank a Gopher in part for that. Blais getting UND to 3 title games over those 5 seasons, 1997-2001, got the attention of NHL scouts that were paying more and more attention to the college hockey ranks, thanks again to UMn's contributions to the overall good of American hockey over the years.


An I will definitely give you Brock Boeser for sure. No need to show me his stats, but the rest? And I did acknowledge that UND would probably come close. But no one else. I've never had much of anything but respect for UND's Men's hockey program. For the most part.

I don’t have the time to look up all their stats bud. You go for it. You seem to have the time and the obsession with it.

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

I don’t have the time to look up all their stats bud. You go for it. You seem to have the time and the obsession with it.

Well, if I'm obsessed, its only with the University of Minnesota. And that's a lot of players, I'll just give UND the benefit of the doubt and assume that they've lost a lot of talent early, much like UMn, Mich & Wisc has.

It would probably take me the same amount of time to look up the stats of the 6 NCHC teams at the bottom. If I find what I assume I will about those 6, then I might look up DU's players stats and doubtfully, but maybe then I'll do UND's? And we know that I'll have to do the looking up because SCSU fans and non-UND NCHC fans probably know what will be found and so would never look it up themselves. They don't want to point the gun at their foot to see if its loaded or not when they are pretty sure it is loaded. lol