Big Ten > NCHC

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Back to my point about how it's ok for the B1G schools to be bad at hockey. I pulled some more cherry-picked data out of my butt, and it shows me that the B1G is better than the NCHC schools at producing 300 point scorers in the NHL. Which is the main purpose of B1G schools, as I said in my first post.

B1G schools have RARELY been bad at hockey, and when they are, far more often than not it is because they are being good at producing top notch NHL players.

And I only used 300 pt scorers because it seemed like a somewhat legit measuring stick. The big 4 of the B1G have also produced twice as many 500 pt scorers as the top 4 NCHC teams as well. And twice as many 700 pt scorers as well.

And when it wasn't NHL players they were producing, it was Olympic Men's Hockey players.

Wisconsin produced 34 compared to UND's 27?

MSU and Michigan produced 19 and 12 and OSU produced 3. Can the 8 teams of the NCHC combined match those 4 teams 68 Men's hockey Olympians??

Oh, did I forget to mention the SEVENTY THREE that Minny produced? lol



So feeding the NHL and taking on a brand new member hurt those 5 teams performances for a couple of years??? It happens. But having as many teams, as of right now, as the NCHC, qualified to make the NCAA tourney may be a sign that the B1G has bounced back.

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Big 4 of the B1G vs all 8 of the NCHC.

NCAA appearances?

B1G's b4 = 126
NCHCs 8 = 123

NCAA wins?

B1G's b4 = 176
NCHCs 8 = 138

Frozen Fours?

B1G's b4 = 68
NCHCs 8 = 57

Title Game Apps?

B1G's b4 = 35
NCHCs 8 = 29

Natl Titles?

B1G's b4 = 23
NCHCs 8 = 19


That's 4 vs 8. Figured I'd give your conference a chance, using all 8 teams, yet they still couldn't match the big 4 of the B1G.


Only 3 of the 8 NCHC teams have winning NCAA tourney records, UND, DU and UMD. The B1G with only 6 teams before this year had 4 with winning NCAA tourney records.


PSU has only been to the tourney once and already have a win. WMU has made 6 trips and still haven't won a single game.

OSU has only a .222 winning %, and 1 trip to the Frozen Four, but your mighty SCSU can barely beat that with just a .278 win % and only 1 trip to the FF.

And new member Notre Dame with its .471 win % and 3 trips to the Frozen Four match Miami's and UNO's 3 FFs and .381 and .400 win percentages.

[SJHovey]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

One thing I will agree with is that the B1G hockey programs are like factories. Like Bethlehem Steel, they were great a century ago and can be found in large, hulking, vacant structures.

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

And yes Tippsy, this may be a hockey forum, but that doesn't change the FACT that B1G institutions do not consider hockey or even football to be a top priority.

You claim its BS???


OMG, are you that naïve?


The Research dollars B1G institutions bring in each year is in the HUNDRED BILLION dollar range!!! This research creates thousands of jobs, it saves lives, and has a monetary impact on the nation in the hundreds of billions of dollars.

And if sports are any kind of a priority to B1G institutions, they are football and men's basketball. Sure Hockey comes in 3rd at the big 4 schools in the B1G, and now at PSU, too. But that is only 5 of the 14 institutions in the B1G Conference.

Hockey barely pays for itself. It's not a high priority for The B1G as an entity. Those 5 institutions and maybe OSU, may consider hockey a higher priority than gymnastics or VB, etc., yet B1G hockey programs have done fine over the years being less than a top priority.




How does this relate to college hockey?? In several ways.

First one off the top of my head, this dynamic helped produce a B1G alum with enough money to fund the creation of a now NCAA tourney quality program.

B1G schools are bigger schools, with huge alumni bases, spread out all over the country, which helped enable the Conference or made them think it was a good idea to create their own TV network, which has and will continue to add huge financial amounts to those schools athletic departments, most of which will go towards sports like Football and Basketball, but those 2 sports often pay for all of the other sports, so if it helps B1G football and basketball, indirectly it helps B1G hockey, to varying degrees at different schools, which indirectly helps College hockey as a whole, in the long term.


The B1G is the only hockey conference that has or can expand without having to steal schools from other conferences. Did we steal Notre Dame from HE? lol Maybe, but Notre Dame was never really wanted or welcome in the HE, were they?



It was B1G schools that have driven College Hockey from the beginning, and it was a B1G school that Americanized American College Hockey far more than any other school in history and that's not even close to disputable. This was good for College Hockey, and has been good for the NHL and what is good for the NHL is indirectly good for college hockey. And the US doing well in Olympic hockey is also indirectly good for College hockey.


College Hockey is a niche sport and might always be, but with Title IX and the high cost of having a college hockey program, it's a niche sport that could have slowly faded away, and programs like St Cloud St and UMD, and WMU and UNO and Miami, OH were NEVER going to keep College Hockey moving forward, and if not for B1G programs making the old WCHA and the old CCHA legit conferences, most of those programs I just mentioned might not even exist today?

And even UND, DU and CC, without B1G programs to compete against all throughout the years, would not have done as well as they have.

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

One thing I will agree with is that the B1G hockey programs are like factories. Like Bethlehem Steel, they were great a century ago and can be found in large, hulking, vacant structures.

A century ago??? lol

1996 Michigan won the Natl Title.
1997 A former Gopher coached UND to the Natl Title.
1998 Michigan won the Natl Title, Ohio St made the Frozen Four.
1999 Mich St made the Frozen Four.
2000 A former Gopher coached UND to the Natl Title.
2001 Both Michigan and Mich St made the Frozen Four, A former Gopher coached UND to the Frozen Four.
2002 Minnesota won the Natl Title, Michigan made the Frozen Four.
2003 Minnesota won the Natl Title, Michigan made the Frozen Four.
2005 Minnesota made it to the Frozen Four.
2006 Wisconsin won the Natl Title.
2007 Michigan St won the Natl Title.
2008 Notre Dame got to the Title Game, Michigan also made the Frozen Four.
2010 Wisconsin got to the Title game.
2011 Michigan got to the Title game.
2012 Minnesota got to the Frozen Four.
2014 Minnesota made it to the Title Game.

And I should go look up where the coaches for all of those B1G teams went to school? My guess is a lot of B1G alums.


Btw, that period, 1996 to 2014, no conference's existing members won more Natl Titles than the B1G did. B1G won 6, HE won 6, NCHC won 5.


So the NCHC had a nice season in 2015, and a little better in 2016, and a great season in 2017, and now they think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread??? lol


Well, they gave the B1G a very big head start, 20 more NCAA Appearances for the B1G, 49 more NCAA tourney wins for the B1G, 15 more Frozen Fours, 7 more Title game appearances and 4 more Natl Titles. Oh, and that HUGE headstart in the way of producing those 300 and 500 and 700 pt scorers in the NHL, too.

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Right said Fred should start a new thread called NCAA Hockey in the 20th century

[TalonsUpPuckDown]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

I think the creation of the B1G was a good thing for Mich, MSU and OSU(as the CCHA was one of the lamest conferences), and obviously PSU, and down the line it could be for Notre Dame as well. And having 3 competitive Western Conferences is better for college hockey in general.

A century ago??? lol

1996 Michigan won the Natl Title.
1997 A former Gopher coached UND to the Natl Title.
1998 Michigan won the Natl Title, Ohio St made the Frozen Four.
1999 Mich St made the Frozen Four.
2000 A former Gopher coached UND to the Natl Title.
2001 Both Michigan and Mich St made the Frozen Four, A former Gopher coached UND to the Frozen Four.
2002 Minnesota won the Natl Title, Michigan made the Frozen Four.
2003 Minnesota won the Natl Title, Michigan made the Frozen Four.
2005 Minnesota made it to the Frozen Four.
2006 Wisconsin won the Natl Title.
2007 Michigan St won the Natl Title.
2008 Notre Dame got to the Title Game, Michigan also made the Frozen Four.
2010 Wisconsin got to the Title game.
2011 Michigan got to the Title game.
2012 Minnesota got to the Frozen Four.
2014 Minnesota made it to the Title Game.

Though I'm a nWCHA guy with no dog in this hunt I feel the need to point out Freddy's reliance on results from that "lame" CCHA conference.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

And yes Tippsy, this may be a hockey forum, but that doesn't change the FACT that B1G institutions do not consider hockey or even football to be a top priority.

You claim its BS???


OMG, are you that naïve?


The Research dollars B1G institutions bring in each year is in the HUNDRED BILLION dollar range!!! This research creates thousands of jobs, it saves lives, and has a monetary impact on the nation in the hundreds of billions of dollars.

And if sports are any kind of a priority to B1G institutions, they are football and men's basketball. Sure Hockey comes in 3rd at the big 4 schools in the B1G, and now at PSU, too. But that is only 5 of the 14 institutions in the B1G Conference.

Hockey barely pays for itself. It's not a high priority for The B1G as an entity. Those 5 institutions and maybe OSU, may consider hockey a higher priority than gymnastics or VB, etc., yet B1G hockey programs have done fine over the years being less than a top priority.




How does this relate to college hockey?? In several ways.

First one off the top of my head, this dynamic helped produce a B1G alum with enough money to fund the creation of a now NCAA tourney quality program.

B1G schools are bigger schools, with huge alumni bases, spread out all over the country, which helped enable the Conference or made them think it was a good idea to create their own TV network, which has and will continue to add huge financial amounts to those schools athletic departments, most of which will go towards sports like Football and Basketball, but those 2 sports often pay for all of the other sports, so if it helps B1G football and basketball, indirectly it helps B1G hockey, to varying degrees at different schools, which indirectly helps College hockey as a whole, in the long term.


The B1G is the only hockey conference that has or can expand without having to steal schools from other conferences. Did we steal Notre Dame from HE? lol Maybe, but Notre Dame was never really wanted or welcome in the HE, were they?



It was B1G schools that have driven College Hockey from the beginning, and it was a B1G school that Americanized American College Hockey far more than any other school in history and that's not even close to disputable. This was good for College Hockey, and has been good for the NHL and what is good for the NHL is indirectly good for college hockey. And the US doing well in Olympic hockey is also indirectly good for College hockey.


College Hockey is a niche sport and might always be, but with Title IX and the high cost of having a college hockey program, it's a niche sport that could have slowly faded away, and programs like St Cloud St and UMD, and WMU and UNO and Miami, OH were NEVER going to keep College Hockey moving forward, and if not for B1G programs making the old WCHA and the old CCHA legit conferences, most of those programs I just mentioned might not even exist today?

And even UND, DU and CC, without B1G programs to compete against all throughout the years, would not have done as well as they have.

While you’re not wrong that research is the top priority, you’re off by a factor of nearly 100 on the research dollars. It’s about $7-10 billion a year in federal grants for all of the CIC. Combined.

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Right said Fred should start a new thread called NCAA Hockey in the 20th century

Well, I am a bit of a history buff Tippsy, I will give you that. I have to be being a Gopher Football fan, lol.

But when it comes to hockey, I've been talking mostly 21st century. But history is history, it happened, it can't be changed.

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

Though I'm a nWCHA guy with no dog in this hunt I feel the need to point out Freddy's reliance on results from that "lame" CCHA conference.

Well, I was an oWCHA guy, so my distaste for the ccha. But the only good thing about the ccha was the B1G schools involvement.

And its not like I wouldn't have preferred the oWCHA remain intact, but I'm one of those people who saw that things were going to change, so instead of whining and *****ing about it for years, I chose to accept that it was going to happen and there was absolutely nothing I could do about it, and have tried to see how it could be seen as a good thing.

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

While you’re not wrong that research is the top priority, you’re off by a factor of nearly 100 on the research dollars. It’s about $7-10 billion a year in federal grants for all of the CIC. Combined.

Well, that would mean I was off by a factor of 10, not 100, but still embarrassing. Guess I thought it was 7-10 billion a year per school?

As embarrassing as it is that I was wrong, I'm pleased to know that someone else cared enough to go look it up. Some of the things that money goes towards really have such a significant impact on regular people's lives, its a shame so few people pay any attention to it.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

You said hundreds of billions. Nice try. It’s ok to just be wrong.

I didn’t look it up. I knew it from years of following the CIC and the big ten. Actually, you know, researching things and understanding before I ran my mouth.

You’re also using university priorities compared to athletic priorities. They’re almost independent save for admission to the Big Ten athletic conference.

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

You said hundreds of billions. Nice try. It’s ok to just be wrong.

I didn’t look it up. I knew it from years of following the CIC and the big ten. Actually, you know, researching things and understanding before I ran my mouth.

You’re also using university priorities compared to athletic priorities. They’re almost independent save for admission to the Big Ten athletic conference.

Oh sure, I WAS WRONG, thought I admitted as much, but it was the "impact" that I said was in the hundreds of billions as the "impact" is always much bigger than the amount invested, as the financial worth of the companies and inventions and products that result from the money invested into University research is multiplied many times.

I mean I think it's quite telling when a fan of several of the B1G hockey schools can claim that their University all by itself has produced more Nobel Prize winners than the entire SEC conference combined. The same could probably be said about the other Hockey conferences as well.

[SJHovey]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

A century ago??? lol

1996 Michigan won the Natl Title.
1997 A former Gopher coached UND to the Natl Title.
1998 Michigan won the Natl Title, Ohio St made the Frozen Four.
1999 Mich St made the Frozen Four.
2000 A former Gopher coached UND to the Natl Title.
2001 Both Michigan and Mich St made the Frozen Four, A former Gopher coached UND to the Frozen Four.
2002 Minnesota won the Natl Title, Michigan made the Frozen Four.
2003 Minnesota won the Natl Title, Michigan made the Frozen Four.
2005 Minnesota made it to the Frozen Four.
2006 Wisconsin won the Natl Title.
2007 Michigan St won the Natl Title.
2008 Notre Dame got to the Title Game, Michigan also made the Frozen Four.
2010 Wisconsin got to the Title game.
2011 Michigan got to the Title game.
2012 Minnesota got to the Frozen Four.
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________
B1G and NCHC hockey conferences formed.
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________
2014 Minnesota made it to the Title Game.

Fixed your post (again).

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Big Ten > NCHC

GREAT weekend for the almighty greatest conference ever in the history of college hockey, the NCHC!!!!

#1 SCSU at least didn't lose to #42 Princeton, lol. Two ties. Wow!! Impressive.

#2 Denver, not to be outdone by SCSU's incredible weekend, LOSES to #38 Merrimack, lol. At least they beat #41 Air Force.

#16 UMD ties #47 Dartmouth. I guess that's better than losing, lol.

#20 CC loses to #41 Air Force!! But at least did what Denver couldn't, and beat #38 Merrimack.

So far that's 2-2-3 vs #38, #41, #42 & #47.



Only NCHC team with an impressive weekend was the one coached by a former B1G player!!!