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Thread: Big Ten > NCHC

  1. #521
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    Re: Big Ten > NCHC

    Quote Originally Posted by icehawk View Post
    This list of early departures since 2000 is from siouxsports.com. May be missing a couple.


    Very long list:

    Lee Goren

    Bryan Lundbohm

    Ryan Bayda

    Travis Roche

    Mike Commodore

    David Hale

    Brandon Bochensk
    James Massen

    Zach Parise

    Matt Greene

    Brady Murray

    Drew Stafford

    Matt Smaby

    Rastislav Spirko

    Travis Zajac

    T.J. Oshie

    Jonathan Toews

    Brian Lee

    Taylor Chorney

    Jason Gregoire

    Brett Hextall

    David Toews

    Corey Fienhage

    Brock Nelson

    Rocco Grimaldi

    Jordan Schmaltz

    Nick Schmaltz

    Luke Johnson

    Paul Ladue

    Troy Stecher

    Keaton Thompson

    Zane McIntyre

    Brock Boeser

    Tucker Poolman

    Tyson Jost
    So they left early, so what? I mean, without evidence that they did something the years that they otherwise would have been playing for their college team, its meaningless, except to pad the # of players drafted by the NHL stats.

    But that could explain UND's 15 year Title drought including only 1 trip to the Title game for the last 14 of those 15 seasons?

    UND is the one NCHC team I'd say was an NHL factory like UMn, UW & Michigan are. And you can thank a Gopher in part for that. Blais getting UND to 3 title games over those 5 seasons, 1997-2001, got the attention of NHL scouts that were paying more and more attention to the college hockey ranks, thanks again to UMn's contributions to the overall good of American hockey over the years.


    An I will definitely give you Brock Boeser for sure. No need to show me his stats, but the rest? And I did acknowledge that UND would probably come close. But no one else. I've never had much of anything but respect for UND's Men's hockey program. For the most part.
    Last edited by FredsDeadFriend; 01-05-2018 at 01:34 PM.

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    Re: Big Ten > NCHC

    Quote Originally Posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
    Why do you keep bring up teams from the last decade? That has nothing to do with the Big Ten and NCHC. And we have already determined that recently, the U of M and its fellow B1G teams aren't struggling because of early departures any more than the NCHC is. Stay on topic, genius.
    This thread seems pointless and fun. I want to play along.

    Michigan losses a ton of talent early every year. I'm going to argue that they do struggle more than NCHC teams because of the top talent lost with eligibility left every year. Now, like others in this thread, I'm going to argue this based on information for one side only, because I don't care to look up/learn about the NCHC teams and what players they may have lost.

    The 2015-2016 season Michigan was a win away from the Frozen Four. With 3 Hobey top 10 finalists, you might expect better results (perhaps with great goaltending we would have). The following year Michigan's top line had all gone pro, all of them with eligibility left. No more Conner, Compher, Motte line to light up opponents. Add to that the top D pair going pro as well (1 a sophomore, 1 a junior), and you're left with a rather gutted team. Yes, it's Michigan and one has come to expect top talent to leave after a few seasons. However, there is a difference between losing a Junior and losing a Freshman, and losing a top scoring freshman 2 years in a row.

    Picture for a moment that this could have been Dylan Larkin's senior year and Kyle Conner's junior year and Zach Werenski's senior year.

    So, while I have no idea what early departures have done to NCHC teams, I know what my team is without. Of course, I'd rather have an amazing player for one year than not have them at all.

    The fact is that B1G schools can recruit the kind of talent that is ready for the NHL after a season or two.

  3. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredsDeadFriend View Post
    So they left early, so what? I mean, without evidence that they did something the years that they otherwise would have been playing for their college team, its meaningless, except to pad the # of players drafted by the NHL stats.

    But that could explain UND's 15 year Title drought including only 1 trip to the Title game for the last 14 of those 15 seasons?

    UND is the one NCHC team I'd say was an NHL factory like UMn, UW & Michigan are. And you can thank a Gopher in part for that. Blais getting UND to 3 title games over those 5 seasons, 1997-2001, got the attention of NHL scouts that were paying more and more attention to the college hockey ranks, thanks again to UMn's contributions to the overall good of American hockey over the years.


    An I will definitely give you Brock Boeser for sure. No need to show me his stats, but the rest? And I did acknowledge that UND would probably come close. But no one else. I've never had much of anything but respect for UND's Men's hockey program. For the most part.
    I donít have the time to look up all their stats bud. You go for it. You seem to have the time and the obsession with it.

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    Re: Big Ten > NCHC

    Quote Originally Posted by icehawk View Post
    I don’t have the time to look up all their stats bud. You go for it. You seem to have the time and the obsession with it.
    Well, if I'm obsessed, its only with the University of Minnesota. And that's a lot of players, I'll just give UND the benefit of the doubt and assume that they've lost a lot of talent early, much like UMn, Mich & Wisc has.

    It would probably take me the same amount of time to look up the stats of the 6 NCHC teams at the bottom. If I find what I assume I will about those 6, then I might look up DU's players stats and doubtfully, but maybe then I'll do UND's? And we know that I'll have to do the looking up because SCSU fans and non-UND NCHC fans probably know what will be found and so would never look it up themselves. They don't want to point the gun at their foot to see if its loaded or not when they are pretty sure it is loaded. lol
    Last edited by FredsDeadFriend; 01-05-2018 at 02:13 PM.

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    Re: Big Ten > NCHC

    Quote Originally Posted by FredsDeadFriend View Post
    Of course JBSU fans LOVE the idea of pretending history started the year the NCHC and B1G conferences were formed, because Gopher fans saw the move as the likely end to what was previously a very good thing, especially for the Gophers. The old WCHA was not so kind to the likes of JBSU as their almost blank resume leading up to the season before its breaking up showed. Now they think everyone should be forced to go back to the starting line, everything equal?? lol
    St. Cloud State fans don't pretend history started in 2013. We just realize that whatever happened over 4 seasons ago is mostly irrelevant. No players from those teams are still there.

    Quote Originally Posted by FredsDeadFriend View Post
    But it never has been equal and never will be. SCSU has always been JBSU and that might change, as soon as this season maybe even, but hockey is all SCSU has, so I'd be an ashhole if I cheered against them. .
    You are a colossal a-hole. Anyone reading this could tell that. You are also a colossal blowhard. I can't imagine being able to tolerate being around you for more than 10 minutes in real life. You think that your thoughts and feelings are so much more important than everyone elses, and you obviously have trouble confronting reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by FredsDeadFriend View Post
    I hope they do rise up and become a power. As a Gopher fan I can always enjoy the Women's hockey team or one of the basketball teams. But Minnesota has been The Flagship Entity for The State of Hockey for a very long time, and will never go away, and will rise up again even despite the obstacles moving to the B1G brought on. I don't believe or think that the University of Minnesota will give up on men's hockey like it did football back in the late 60s/early 70s. I suppose SCSU and NCHC fans hope they do, but they shouldn't, because a strong Minnesota hockey program is good for college hockey.
    So you can only enjoy Division I sports? I went to football games, track events and basketball games while I was at St. Cloud. They weren't division I, but those teams won a lot more than their counterparts at the U of M, and were enjoyable despite being DII.
    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    Pretty sure this post, made on January 3, 2016, when UNO was 14-3-1 and #2 in the pairwise, will go down in USCHO lore as The Curse of Tipsy McStagger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brenthoven View Post
    We mourn for days after a loss, puff out our chests for a week or more after we win. We brave the cold for tailgates, our friends know not to ask about the game after a tough loss, we laugh, we cry, we BLEED hockey, specifically the maroon'n'gold. Many of us have a tattoo waiting in the wings, WHEN (not IF) the Gophers are champions again.

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    Re: Big Ten > NCHC

    Quote Originally Posted by wolverineTrumpet View Post
    Michigan losses a ton of talent early every year. I'm going to argue that they do struggle more than NCHC teams because of the top talent lost with eligibility left every year. Now, like others in this thread, I'm going to argue this based on information for one side only, because I don't care to look up/learn about the NCHC teams and what players they may have lost.
    Wow, this is shocking.
    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    Pretty sure this post, made on January 3, 2016, when UNO was 14-3-1 and #2 in the pairwise, will go down in USCHO lore as The Curse of Tipsy McStagger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brenthoven View Post
    We mourn for days after a loss, puff out our chests for a week or more after we win. We brave the cold for tailgates, our friends know not to ask about the game after a tough loss, we laugh, we cry, we BLEED hockey, specifically the maroon'n'gold. Many of us have a tattoo waiting in the wings, WHEN (not IF) the Gophers are champions again.

  7. #527
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    Re: Big Ten > NCHC

    Quote Originally Posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
    St. Cloud State fans don't pretend history started in 2013. We just realize that whatever happened over 4 seasons ago is mostly irrelevant. No players from those teams are still there.


    You are a colossal a-hole. Anyone reading this could tell that. You are also a colossal blowhard. I can't imagine being able to tolerate being around you for more than 10 minutes in real life. You think that your thoughts and feelings are so much more important than everyone elses, and you obviously have trouble confronting reality.


    So you can only enjoy Division I sports? I went to football games, track events and basketball games while I was at St. Cloud. They weren't division I, but those teams won a lot more than their counterparts at the U of M, and were enjoyable despite being DII.

    Well, I have tons of friends, from all over, none of whom think I'm an a-hole, so I'm not too concerned about your thinking I'm a real a-hole in real life, which obviously means you don't want to be friends in real life, darn it anyway, lol And if you couldn't figure it out, yes I am being sarcastic.

    As for having sports to follow at St Cloud other than hockey? That's great for you. People enjoy going to high school sporting events, too. People enjoy Minor league baseball and minor league hockey, etc., But as much as college hockey is a niche sport that the vast majority of the nation's population couldn't care less about, the same can be said about Div 2 and Div 3 sports. Small localities get behind their local school's teams, and their rivals and competitors care as much as rivals and competitors do, but outside of the niche fan bases of Div 2 and 3 sports teams, NO ONE ELSE CARES!!!


    As for SCSU's teams winning more than UMn's comparable sports? LMAO!!! And SCSU doesn't play teams that can fill stadiums full of 110,000 people each and every game with rosters full of some of the greatest athletes IN THE WORLD many of whom go on to play in the NFL and NBA on a regular basis or go on to compete in the Olympics.

  8. #528
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    Re: Big Ten > NCHC

    Quote Originally Posted by FredsDeadFriend View Post
    As for SCSU's teams winning more than UMn's comparable sports? LMAO!!! And SCSU doesn't play teams that can fill stadiums full of 110,000 people each and every game with rosters full of some of the greatest athletes IN THE WORLD many of whom go on to play in the NFL and NBA on a regular basis or go on to compete in the Olympics.
    I was at Mariucci this past weekend. Neither can the U.

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    Re: Big Ten > NCHC

    Quote Originally Posted by FredsDeadFriend View Post
    As for having sports to follow at St Cloud other than hockey? That's great for you. People enjoy going to high school sporting events, too. People enjoy Minor league baseball and minor league hockey, etc., But as much as college hockey is a niche sport that the vast majority of the nation's population couldn't care less about, the same can be said about Div 2 and Div 3 sports. Small localities get behind their local school's teams, and their rivals and competitors care as much as rivals and competitors do, but outside of the niche fan bases of Div 2 and 3 sports teams, NO ONE ELSE CARES!!!


    As for SCSU's teams winning more than UMn's comparable sports? LMAO!!! And SCSU doesn't play teams that can fill stadiums full of 110,000 people each and every game with rosters full of some of the greatest athletes IN THE WORLD many of whom go on to play in the NFL and NBA on a regular basis or go on to compete in the Olympics.
    That's kind of the point of me asking if you can only enjoy Division I sports. I enjoy sports more when I have some kind of connection with the people participating. I knew and went to class with people on the hockey team, that ran track, played football at St. Cloud. I don't measure my self-worth by the success or popularity of a sports team that I root for. That's where we differ. For a college hockey fan to malign another sport because of a national lack of interest takes a Michael Scott-level lack of self-awareness.

    People that I know probably think I am kind of weird due to the amount of attention I pay to the SCSU hockey team. I can't imagine what they would think if I posted 3,000 word screeds 5 times a day about how great the team was 10-12 years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    Pretty sure this post, made on January 3, 2016, when UNO was 14-3-1 and #2 in the pairwise, will go down in USCHO lore as The Curse of Tipsy McStagger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brenthoven View Post
    We mourn for days after a loss, puff out our chests for a week or more after we win. We brave the cold for tailgates, our friends know not to ask about the game after a tough loss, we laugh, we cry, we BLEED hockey, specifically the maroon'n'gold. Many of us have a tattoo waiting in the wings, WHEN (not IF) the Gophers are champions again.

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    Re: Big Ten > NCHC

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    I was at Mariucci this past weekend. Neither can the U.

    It truly is sad when I tune in their games on FSN or the Big Ten Network and see the place half empty. Wasn't like that during their WCHA days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by icehawk View Post
    It truly is sad when I tune in their games on FSN or the Big Ten Network and see the place half empty. Wasn't like that during their WCHA days.
    They just don't care about it and it's too expensive.

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    Re: Big Ten > NCHC

    Quote Originally Posted by icehawk View Post
    It truly is sad when I tune in their games on FSN or the Big Ten Network and see the place half empty. Wasn't like that during their WCHA days.
    Yeah, because men's college hockey is the only option people from the Twin Cities have to choose from??? Come on. Minnesotans near the Twin Cities have the Vikings, The Wild, and I guess the T-Wolves, the Gopher Men's BB team, the women's bb team, the women's hockey team, and even the Gopher Wrestling team gets more fans than a lot of college hockey programs out there. Most of these programs rank high in attendance. And the Gopher Men's Hockey program has ranked very well in attendance for much of its history. If fans are getting spoiled and so more selective and careful about where they spend their money and when they go out into the freezing cold weather, well, that happens and University of Minnesota Athletics has nothing to be ashamed about, no matter the sport.

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    Re: Big Ten > NCHC

    Quote Originally Posted by FredsDeadFriend View Post
    Yeah, because men's college hockey is the only option people from the Twin Cities have to choose from??? Come on. Minnesotans near the Twin Cities have the Vikings, The Wild, and I guess the T-Wolves, the Gopher Men's BB team, the women's bb team, the women's hockey team, and even the Gopher Wrestling team gets more fans than a lot of college hockey programs out there. Most of these programs rank high in attendance. And the Gopher Men's Hockey program has ranked very well in attendance for much of its history. If fans are getting spoiled and so more selective and careful about where they spend their money and when they go out into the freezing cold weather, well, that happens and University of Minnesota Athletics has nothing to be ashamed about, no matter the sport.
    10-12 years ago, you had to get onto the gopher tickets site the day tickets were released if you wanted something other than SRO. Now they have to run Black Friday deals. It's not a simple matter of more competition because it's the exact same competition as they had back then too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    10-12 years ago, you had to get onto the gopher tickets site the day tickets were released if you wanted something other than SRO. Now they have to run Black Friday deals. It's not a simple matter of more competition because it's the exact same competition as they had back then too.
    Thatís the tired excuse I hear from gopher fans. All those options were there 10 years ago yet the Mooch was still sold out. Excuses are for losers.

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    Re: Big Ten > NCHC

    Quote Originally Posted by icehawk View Post
    Thatís the tired excuse I hear from gopher fans. All those options were there 10 years ago yet the Mooch was still sold out. Excuses are for losers.
    It's obviously the big ten and the U's $$$ grab. Tickets are way too expensive and I don't care as much about seeing a game against Penn State or Mich State versus the local rivalries that have died with Mankato, Bemidji, Duluth, and SCSU. But the program is still making money so it won't likely change anytime soon. The answers are simple and have been known since the beginning. Something tells me other programs are experiencing similar issues, maybe not quite as apparent as they are here.

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    Re: Big Ten > NCHC

    Quote Originally Posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
    That's kind of the point of me asking if you can only enjoy Division I sports. I enjoy sports more when I have some kind of connection with the people participating. I knew and went to class with people on the hockey team, that ran track, played football at St. Cloud. I don't measure my self-worth by the success or popularity of a sports team that I root for. That's where we differ. For a college hockey fan to malign another sport because of a national lack of interest takes a Michael Scott-level lack of self-awareness.

    People that I know probably think I am kind of weird due to the amount of attention I pay to the SCSU hockey team. I can't imagine what they would think if I posted 3,000 word screeds 5 times a day about how great the team was 10-12 years ago.

    You want to talk about how we differ??? I'll tell you how we differ. I understand that this is sports, and that sports are just a form of entertainment for fans, but otherwise WORTHLESS when in comparison to things that truly matter in life and when discussing sports, its very pathetic to resort to personal attacks. And I try to avoid the temptation of making personal attacks. Yet you make it out as if you are better than me when you don't even know me? Resorting to personal attacks makes you better??? How is that?

    In sports no one wants to give or show other teams respect, but yet demand it when it comes to their team or conference whether they deserve it or not. I'm perfectly willing to give teams and/or schools that deserve respect, the respect that they deserve.


    And that doesn't include SCSU. Not yet


    That one UND fan in here posted a list of UND's early departures and along with UND's many Titles and FFs over the years, and their stellar NCAA tourney winning percentage, and the significant contribution to the US Hockey rosters over the years, that list shows that they are also quite an NHL factory. I think I've noticed that UND alum are being chosen to coach several teams in the NCAA right now. All of these things are things that have earned them respect, including MY respect.

    And that poster earned my respect for posting substance instead of insults and personal attacks.



    As for judging my self worth by how my sports teams perform????? How would you know that is how I judge my self worth when you don't even know me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FredsDeadFriend View Post
    You want to talk about how we differ??? I'll tell you how we differ. I understand that this is sports, and that sports are just a form of entertainment for fans, but otherwise WORTHLESS when in comparison to things that truly matter in life and when discussing sports, its very pathetic to resort to personal attacks. And I try to avoid the temptation of making personal attacks. Yet you make it out as if you are better than me when you don't even know me? Resorting to personal attacks makes you better??? How is that?

    In sports no one wants to give or show other teams respect, but yet demand it when it comes to their team or conference whether they deserve it or not. I'm perfectly willing to give teams and/or schools that deserve respect, the respect that they deserve.


    And that doesn't include SCSU. Not yet


    That one UND fan in here posted a list of UND's early departures and along with UND's many Titles and FFs over the years, and their stellar NCAA tourney winning percentage, and the significant contribution to the US Hockey rosters over the years, that list shows that they are also quite an NHL factory. I think I've noticed that UND alum are being chosen to coach several teams in the NCAA right now. All of these things are things that have earned them respect, including MY respect.

    And that poster earned my respect for posting substance instead of insults and personal attacks.



    As for judging my self worth by how my sports teams perform????? How would you know that is how I judge my self worth when you don't even know me?
    How you post indicates you need to believe the gophers are the end all and be all.
    Also...how many times do you need to be told that no husky fans (and likely fans of all other programs) give a flying **** whether you respect us before it sinks into that moronic skull of yours?

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    Re: Big Ten > NCHC

    Gopher fans and others that might not like the B1G Hockey Conference, IT IS HERE TO STAY!!!! Get used to it. Get over it.

    Whatever the reasons, whether it was a money grab or not, it's not going away. Can things like the price of tickets change? Yes, something like that can change. But the Gophers are going to be a part of the B1G Conf for the rest of college hockey history, and so we are stuck with the likes of PSU and Michigan and OSU, and unless you want to help contribute to the end of Gopher hockey or at least it's short term suffering, just to send the message that you don't approve, you better get over it, write a letter to the President of the University or something and quite whining like little babies. It's done. Nothing anyone can do about it now and whining about it just makes you look like a whiner. And it does nothing to help the Gophers.

    You need to embrace the change and embrace the new rivals. Money was there to be grabbed and now that its been grabbed, and there is more to be grabbed, do you think anyone in the position to make such a change will??? Hell no. Whether its what the fans want or not, won't matter. The B1G made the move knowing it would pay off in the long term as grumpy old codgers die, and new young people grow up and don't know any better. In ten years there will be plenty of people who will have embraced The New B1G Conf, enough to more than make up for the small # of whiny old codgers who still haven't accepted and embraced the changes.

    But who am I to tell you what to do? Go on being whiners if you want. Some people aren't happy if they aren't whining about something.

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    Re: Big Ten > NCHC

    Quote Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time View Post
    How you post indicates you need to believe the gophers are the end all and be all.
    Also...how many times do you need to be told that no husky fans (and likely fans of all other programs) give a flying **** whether you respect us before it sinks into that moronic skull of yours?
    I don't "need" them to be, otherwise I wouldn't be such a big Gopher football fan, too. Gopher football hasn't been the end all and be all for a very long time, since before I was born.

    But when it comes to hockey, they simply always have been the end all and be all, depending on your point of view, and in my US hockey centric view, they are. Oh, they could have 2 or 3 more Natl titles, but otherwise,

    #1 in # of players sent to compete in the Olympics, by a 2 to 1 margin over Wisconsin for example (73 to 34)
    #1 in # of players who have won Olympic medals, by an almost 3 to 1 margin over UND for example (33 to 12)
    #1 in # of players who have won Olympic Gold Medals, by over a 3 to 1 margin over MSU for example (13 to 4)
    #1 in # of players sent to the NHL (115 total)
    #1 in # of players sent to the US Hockey Hall of Fame.
    #1 in # of players sent to the Hockey Hall of Fame.
    #1 in # of NCAA Tourney appearances
    #1 in # of NCAA Tourney wins.

    They won the very first intercollegiate hockey game ever played. A Gopher won the first ever Hobey Baker Award and a Gopher was a finalist for having the trophy named for him, and at least a couple of years ago, had the most former players who had won the Hobey Baker Award. UMn was the first team ever invited to represent the US in the Olympics in Men's Hockey. Can't remember why they didn't or couldn't go, but they turned down the invite so no team got sent.

    No school was more of a contributor to the greatest sports upset of the 20th Century, the Miracle on Ice, than the Gophers. And this was all because of the efforts of the Hall of Famer John Mariucci, insisting on recruiting only Minnesotans/Americans, when everyone else was selling out and bringing in mostly bigger and older Canadians. So yes Michigan and Denver and UND have more Titles, because they did sell out and go after those Canadians. UND can almost be forgiven seeing as they are located so close to Canada. His doing this forced the issue, and helped hockey grow in Minnesota, and MADE programs like UMD and SCSU and BSU into Div 1 programs, because without his efforts to grow the sport at home in Minnesota, hockey would be far more of a niche sport than it is now and it would be even more ignored by the vast majority of people out there than it already is and programs like SCSU and UMD and BSU would not have been able to move up to Div 1.

    It was the genius of a former Golden Gopher, one of Mariucci's players, that led to the belief that American college players could compete in the NHL, and it was a former Gopher Neal Broten who became the first American to score 100 pts in a season that showed everyone that a young college kid could succeed in the NHL. And another former Gopher, Bob Johnson who was the first American to coach an NHL team to a Stanley Cup Title. If you don't see the significance of these things, that's too bad for you, because The US Hockey Hall of Fame DID already recognize the significance of these things as did the regular Hockey Hall of Fame, and why John Mariucci, a guy with ZERO Natl Titles and ZERO Gold Medals to his name as a coach, got inducted into that venerated place along with both his former players Brooks and Johnson.

    And I haven't even started up talking about the Gopher Women's Hockey program.


    But I'd root for the Gophers even if they sucked all throughout history, like their Tennis teams have and like their women's soccer team did, until just recently. I don't root for the Gophers because they were good. My father did that back in 1940 & 1941. I root for the Gophers simply because I was raised up to. And when I became an adult I chose to continue to do so even though I went to school elsewhere. It is the flagship University of my home state and AFTER choosing to continue following them, I've learned that I made a great choice!!!


    But I don't "need" them to be good or bad.


    SCSU could replace my Gophers as the #1 college hockey team in Minnesota and the nation for the rest of time, and I'd be happy for SCSU, and I'd be happy not to call them JBSU anymore and I'd still root for my Gophers!!!

  20. #540

    Re: Big Ten > NCHC

    I'm not quite sure why you guys keep trying to argue with JDUBBS. Just let him have his alone time with his The "Men" of Gopher Hockey Calendar and we could have avoided the last 15 pages of nonsense.
    North Dakota
    National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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