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  • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
    She claimed to echo Lincoln. That is, not that we were fighting a holy war, or that she presumed to know who God may favor, but that she hoped we were doing what God would favor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnGSk6N0Ugg
    Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God," she said. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."[/B]
    [B]A video of the speech was posted at the Wasilla Assembly of God's Web site before finding its way on to other sites on the Internet.


    Palin told graduating students of the church's School of Ministry, "What I need to do is strike a deal with you guys." As they preached the love of Jesus throughout Alaska, she said, she'd work to implement God's will from the governor's office, including creating jobs by building a pipeline to bring North Slope natural gas to North American markets.
    "God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for that," she said

    Very Lincolnesque

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    • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

      Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
      Kepler had made the comment about nutjobs and that it's surprising they haven't killed anyone yet, making the assertion (one he's made many times) that such folks are dangerous and certainly more dangerous than his harmless fellow liberals.
      Well, Bob, I would think you even you will admit that right now the world over it's the overly religious who are making the news.
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      • Originally posted by Kepler View Post
        Well, Bob, I would think you even you will admit that right now the world over it's the overly religious who are making the news.
        The SSPX?
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        • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

          Originally posted by joecct View Post
          The SSPX?
          What's Opus Dei up to these days?
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          • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            Well, Bob, I would think you even you will admit that right now the world over it's the overly religious who are making the news.
            Afraid to use the "I" or "M" words?
            Originally posted by Priceless
            Good to see you're so reasonable.
            Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
            Very well, said.
            Originally posted by Rover
            A fair assessment Bob.

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            • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              Depends. If we're counting death strictly by believers and non-believers then you guys get him, sorry. If we're counting deaths with the motivation to kill believers/non-believers, then you get a pass on Hitler's non-Jews but we get a pass on Mao and Pol Pot's non-religious deaths.

              But the whole thing is massively dumb. These deaths were due to the madness of the leadership -- if Mao had been a 16th century Frenchman he'd have been killing right and left in the name of the Lord. He happened to get hatched 50 years after Marx with a bone to pick against the colonialists.

              I forget exactly how we went down this path, but my point was that religiosity doesn't cause morality. It can ground it, but a religious person is just as likely to be a complete SOB because our powers of rationalization are infinite. By the same measure, lack of religiosity also doesn't cause morality. It can ground it (in an existential reality where we are the only moral actors in the universe it's up to us to take up the burden of ethical action), but an atheist can also justify his depredations despite that sense of responsibility, or even be blind to it entirely.
              You really think Hitler was an actual believer in Christ who would go to heaven (assuming Christianity has things correctly for the moment)? Few (if any) believers now or then would agree with you.

              I'll let this one go. We've danced around it enough. I understand the difficulty in admitting that the biggest mass murderers in history were explicitly people who as one of their main policy goals was to drive Christianity out of their country and crush those of faith in their midst.
              Originally posted by Priceless
              Good to see you're so reasonable.
              Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
              Very well, said.
              Originally posted by Rover
              A fair assessment Bob.

              Comment


              • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

                Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
                Afraid to use the "I" or "M" words?
                No more than you seem afraid to admit they're religious. After all, the two great expansionist, universalist, evangelical faiths also happen to be the ones that have been the most violent when in their purified, concentrated form. They are good to the extent that they are tamed and/or attenuated. In their pure form they are lethal.

                History is pretty clear on the fact that the more you let any obsession push all the other values out of your life, the more grief you're going to cause others. "In all things, moderation."

                The enemy of civilization is neither religion or its lack. It is the drive for purification. That's what pogroms, inquisition, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, and ISIS have in common.
                Last edited by Kepler; 09-16-2015, 10:02 AM.
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                • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

                  Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
                  I'll let this one go. We've danced around it enough. I understand the difficulty in admitting that the biggest mass murderers in history were explicitly people who as one of their main policy goals was to drive Christianity out of their country and crush those of faith in their midst.
                  Perfect illustration of what makes Bob such a hypocrite when he refers to others as "trolls".

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                  • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

                    Bob's gonna Bob. When you hit one of his idée fixe he becomes a crusader for his particular worldview. I think we can be magnanimous because after a long run of dominance many of his inclinations are now receding into history. His ideal world may be a hell, but it's a hell that's falling in the polls. Fast.
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                    • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

                      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                      No more than you seem afraid to admit they're religious. After all, the two great expansionist, universalist, evangelical faiths also happen to be the ones that have been the most violent when in their purified, concentrated form. They are good to the extent that they are tamed and/or attenuated. In their pure form they are lethal.

                      History is pretty clear on the fact that the more you let any obsession push all the other values out of your life, the more grief you're going to cause others. "In all things, moderation."

                      The enemy of civilization is neither religion or its lack. It is the drive for purification. That's what pogroms, inquisition, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, and ISIS have in common.
                      Of course they're religious. Who would ever say they weren't?

                      Nice continued try though to paint Christians as bad for what Islamic folks do.

                      You see it as obsession, a very poor word choice in my book. But you often use such definitional terms to try to categorize people. Webster's defines obsession as follows: "a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable idea or feeling." Surely you can grasp that folks who have some sort of religious belief don't buy being pigeon holed into being defined in such a way?

                      Anything can be done in an overboard fashion. Maybe we can agree that Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao took their anti-religion views too far?
                      Originally posted by Priceless
                      Good to see you're so reasonable.
                      Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                      Very well, said.
                      Originally posted by Rover
                      A fair assessment Bob.

                      Comment


                      • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

                        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                        Bob's gonna Bob. When you hit one of his idée fixe he becomes a crusader for his particular worldview. I think we can be magnanimous because after a long run of dominance many of his inclinations are now receding into history. His ideal world may be a hell, but it's a hell that's falling in the polls. Fast.
                        I don't believe or not believe something because it's in fashion for the moment or not. If you think my world view would be a hell for anyone, you really have no idea what I believe or think (not the first time I've noted this).
                        Originally posted by Priceless
                        Good to see you're so reasonable.
                        Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                        Very well, said.
                        Originally posted by Rover
                        A fair assessment Bob.

                        Comment


                        • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

                          Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
                          If you think my world view would be a hell for anyone, you really have no idea what I believe or think (not the first time I've noted this).
                          That's pretty funny. So if I don't think your world view would be hell for anyone, I do an idea what you believe or think?

                          How did you come to know what world view "anyone" would consider hell?

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                          • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

                            Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
                            Maybe we can agree that Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao took their anti-religion views too far?
                            I am curious: do you really think those guys were primarily motivated by anti-religiosity? I think it's very clear that the former was eliminating any potentially threatening alternate power center, and the latter two were exterminating all of Westernized culture in general. The were "anti-religious" in the sense that a bulldozer is "anti-wainscotting": it's just one of the things that gets plowed under.
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                            • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

                              Can you all quit playing the no true scotsman game with Bob? TLDR xtians good, everything else is bad. Same thing 5mn always does but with a little less martyr complex.

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                              • Re: The Power of the SCOTUS VIII - I am certiorari we'll be arguing until Thanksgivin

                                Originally posted by burd View Post
                                That's pretty funny. So if I don't think your world view would be hell for anyone, I do an idea what you believe or think?

                                How did you come to know what world view "anyone" would consider hell?
                                True. Maybe someone somewhere thinks a world where all are treated with respect and courtesy would be hell. Of course Kep was talking about my world view, so I think I am more qualified to know about that than you or Kep. Maybe you missed that part.
                                Originally posted by Priceless
                                Good to see you're so reasonable.
                                Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                                Very well, said.
                                Originally posted by Rover
                                A fair assessment Bob.

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