The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

[Kepler]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

If you do not believe Christ is God then you are not a Christian. That is the foundation of the Trinity. So, I fail to see how one can argue the other way.

Your syllogism has a famous mistake in it that I can't remember the pretty Latin name for.

1. All C are B.
2. Some B are T.
3. Therefore, all C are T.

Nope nope nope.

[5mn_Major]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

Is a church donation not charity?

So several atheist websites are calling out a recent study that says that 19% of an average church budget goes to actual monetary outreach charity (16% missions and 3% charity). The atheists consider this a sham, but to me its all pretty straightforward. There are standard operating costs of leasing or owning an enormous structure plus all the bills. There is also pastors and management. I think 19% of their budget going to monetary charity is pretty good...corporations earn lots of profit from sales (where churches have none) and a tiny fraction. Also churches generate lots of additional volunteerism in the community. Also, most every church provides a wide variety of support services at the church for anyone - and some mega churches have hundreds of support service programs. All in all, a pretty worthy donation.

[Kepler]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

Is a church donation not charity?

Maybe we need a more formal subset of charity called "effective charity," to capture the amount of a donation that actually goes through to the recipient. But even there it would be hopelessly convoluted, for the reasons which you've cited.

I'm not clear on what we're trying to prove? Are you arguing that Christians are better people? Because I'm thinking that's fairly self-serving, to say the least. Are you arguing that Christians produce more good in the world? That's certainly an open question, though I would say that religious conservatives at least had better be giving more to charity to make up the deficit of good they are screwing the indigent out of through their politics.

[LynahFan]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

Is a church donation not charity?

So several atheist websites are calling out a recent study that says that 19% of an average church budget goes to actual monetary outreach charity (16% missions and 3% charity). The atheists consider this a sham, but to me its all pretty straightforward. There are standard operating costs of leasing or owning an enormous structure plus all the bills. There is also pastors and management. I think 19% of their budget going to monetary charity is pretty good...corporations earn lots of profit from sales (where churches have none) and a tiny fraction. Also churches generate lots of additional volunteerism in the community. Also, most every church provides a wide variety of support services at the church for anyone - and some mega churches have hundreds of support service programs. All in all, a pretty worthy donation.

Corporations also inspire volunteerism (my company has tons of programs) and donations (United Way campaign, etc). On the flip side, churches definitely have sales (for fundraisers, etc).

But only one of them pays taxes.

[joecct]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

Corporations also inspire volunteerism (my company has tons of programs) and donations (United Way campaign, etc). On the flip side, churches definitely have sales (for fundraisers, etc).

But only one of them pays taxes.

What if Corporation ABC creates a foundation under 501(c)(3) of the tax code? And contributions by the corporation to the foundation are tax deductible and the foundation itself is exempt from taxation? Conceivably ABC could lower their tax bill significantly by plowing excess profits into the foundation?

ADDENDUM: I've been criticized in other threads about my posting of Pat Buchanan columns. OK, if you don't like Pat, you may also have an aversion of Father George Rutler. I've listened to him on TV and wondered where he wrote his essays. Now I know. This man (priest) is not a shrinking violet that many in Holy Mother Church have turned into.

The article deals with the current state of affairs and the Catholic perspective. Some may read it and ponder its words. Others will read it and ignore it, and others won't read it because it disagrees with their thinking. Your choice.

[LynahFan]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

What if Corporation ABC creates a foundation under 501(c)(3) of the tax code? And contributions by the corporation to the foundation are tax deductible and the foundation itself is exempt from taxation? Conceivably ABC could lower their tax bill significantly by plowing excess profits into the foundation?

Sure - but if they thought they could get away with it (as churches can), I'm pretty sure they'd already be doing it.

[St. Clown]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

What about Hell? Yea or nay? If yea, what is the criteria for membership?

Yes. It's living in Wisconsin. I saw that in a movie about God, angels both good and fallen, demons, the Last Scion, and pro(fits), so it must be true.

[5mn_Major]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

Corporations also inspire volunteerism (my company has tons of programs) and donations (United Way campaign, etc). On the flip side, churches definitely have sales (for fundraisers, etc).

But only one of them pays taxes.

From Slate (not exactly Christian)...

Given the scale of American business, it is surprising how small a role corporations play in charitable giving in the U.S., now comprising only a little more than 1 percent of the $1.5 trillion charitable economy.

This number is shockingly small when you think of the entire corporate budget which is how we're judging churches...rather than just profit. But its greatly welcome.

Maybe we need a more formal subset of charity called "effective charity," to capture the amount of a donation that actually goes through to the recipient. But even there it would be hopelessly convoluted, for the reasons which you've cited.

I'm not clear on what we're trying to prove?

It would be very difficult to track as pastors and staff spend much of their time doing support services and other forms of outreach.

Oh...the point was made a few posts back that contribution to a church is not really charitable in nature. And so I was pointing out that churches create substantial community service value add beyond simply giving 19% of their money away.

[Kepler]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

And so I was pointing out that churches create substantial community service value add beyond simply giving 19% of their money away.

I agree with this.

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

What if Corporation ABC creates a foundation under 501(c)(3) of the tax code? And contributions by the corporation to the foundation are tax deductible and the foundation itself is exempt from taxation? Conceivably ABC could lower their tax bill significantly by plowing excess profits into the foundation?

ADDENDUM: I've been criticized in other threads about my posting of Pat Buchanan columns. OK, if you don't like Pat, you may also have an aversion of Father George Rutler. I've listened to him on TV and wondered where he wrote his essays. Now I know. This man (priest) is not a shrinking violet that many in Holy Mother Church have turned into.

The article deals with the current state of affairs and the Catholic perspective. Some may read it and ponder its words. Others will read it and ignore it, and others won't read it because it disagrees with their thinking. Your choice.

Good read. Thanks.

[unofan]

What if Corporation ABC creates a foundation under 501(c)(3) of the tax code? And contributions by the corporation to the foundation are tax deductible and the foundation itself is exempt from taxation? Conceivably ABC could lower their tax bill significantly by plowing excess profits into the foundation?

ADDENDUM: I've been criticized in other threads about my posting of Pat Buchanan columns. OK, if you don't like Pat, you may also have an aversion of Father George Rutler. I've listened to him on TV and wondered where he wrote his essays. Now I know. This man (priest) is not a shrinking violet that many in Holy Mother Church have turned into.

The article deals with the current state of affairs and the Catholic perspective. Some may read it and ponder its words. Others will read it and ignore it, and others won't read it because it disagrees with their thinking. Your choice.

That's a Catholic perspective, not the Catholic perspective. Considering roughly 60% of Catholics vote for the D, the only thing in that article that can be considered a full Catholic position is its anti-abortion stance, on which the Church is unwavering. The rest is simple partisan politics disguised, as the author would put it, in sheep's clothing.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

Here's an interesting one: The end of the Shemitah, or Sabbath year, is soon upon us. Some will point to this as "disastrous" things happening, such as 9/11, the crash of 2008, black Monday in 1987, among other things. It somewhat coincides with the "conclusion" of Jade Helm 2015.

[Kepler]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

Here's an interesting one: The end of the Shemitah, or Sabbath year, is soon upon us. Some will point to this as "disastrous" things happening, such as 9/11, the crash of 2008, black Monday in 1987, among other things. It somewhat coincides with the "conclusion" of Jade Helm 2015.

August is also typically the time when the Mets fall out of contention. I think you're on to something here.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

August is also typically the time when the Mets fall out of contention. I think you're on to something here.

That happens a little more often than once every seven years, though.

[Kepler]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

That happens a little more often than once every seven years, though.

The other six we're out of it in July.

Getting back to the thread, sigh.