The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

[5mn_Major]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

Do you honestly, seriously not see that the point I made was exactly the point you made?

It's gotta be either my writing skills or your reading skills.

Sorry if I missed the positive spin...'Christians bent over backwards to accommodate the rituals and power structures of Roman society, and treating women like garbage may have been just another tactic'. Anyone else see it?

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

Sorry if I missed the positive spin...'Christians bent over backwards to accommodate the rituals and power structures of Roman society, and treating women like garbage may have been just another tactic'. Anyone else see it?

I don't see how what Kepler is saying would be thought of as the same as what you're saying, but my ability to understand Keplerspeak seems to decline by the day.

Not to mention that Christians were a horrifically persecuted minority in the Roman Empire and were very much outsiders, not the accommodating types at all, other than they didn't have open insurrection like the Jews did at times.

Seriously this is just one of many cases where Kepler's history on things just really really is, uh, different.

[unofan]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

Women and children are just so much inventory in patriarchal societies. You raped my daughter? Well, give me thirty chickens for the maidenhead and we're even. Oh, and we'll have to kill her, of course. The slut. You? Nah, you can go, but don't forget those chickens...

Christians bent over backwards to accommodate the rituals and power structures of Roman society, and treating women like garbage may have been just another tactic. Roman society was so misogynistic it kinda goes beyond the word -- like calling the Civil War South "racist," it doesn't really capture the spirit of the thing, Reg. To the extent that early Christians were in any way "reformers" I'm sure women were pretty low on their To Do list, and in any case we should always remember that those people were completely convinced that Jesus was coming back in their lifetime. They weren't doing any long-term social engineering, they were getting ready for Judgment Day like it was Black Friday.

Yeah, but that doesn't explain why a modern day follower, in an age and country where women are (rightfully) seen as the equals of men, quotes that passage and then says, the role of women is "cut and dried."

Fark that shiat. If you want to tell my wife that God says to shut up and make babies, good luck with that.

[unofan]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

Sorry if I missed the positive spin...'Christians bent over backwards to accommodate the rituals and power structures of Roman society, and treating women like garbage may have been just another tactic'. Anyone else see it?

Yep. He's saying Christians did what they could with what they had.

[Kepler]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

Yep. He's saying Christians did what they could with what they had.

And that Christians adopted certain attitudes in blending with Roman society, either consciously or unconsciously. Ergo, the rampant misogyny practiced for 1000+ years in European Christian civilizations may not be because they were Christian, but because they existed through times in which genuine respect for women was literally unthinkable, by anyone.

I didn't think it was that hard to follow, actually.

[burd]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

Yeah, but that doesn't explain why a modern day follower, in an age and country where women are (rightfully) seen as the equals of men, quotes that passage and then says, the role of women is "cut and dried."

Fark that shiat. If you want to tell my wife that God says to shut up and make babies, good luck with that.

When I bring up the subject of what is necessary to make babies with my wife, it's not so much as a command backed by an order from God as it is a supplication to God.

Just between you and me.

[Kepler]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

When I bring up the subject of what is necessary to make babies with my wife, it's not so much as a command backed by an order from God as it is a supplication to God.

Try offerings. I find it works.

[burd]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

Try offerings. I find it works.

I'll try that. I always struggle with whether to make eye contact before the decision is rendered.

[Kepler]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

I'll try that. I always struggle with whether to make eye contact before the decision is rendered.

An ablution now and then wouldn't hurt either. Coworkers appreciate it too.

[joecct]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

Pews? Phew!

http://www.crisismagazine.com/2015/t...blem-with-pews

[Timothy A]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

BTW the Duggar mess is super amusing and horrifying at the same time. While also being topical to this kind of discussion.

All sin is equal in God's eyes, so none of us can sit hear and snark at him when all of us sin everyday without snarking at ourselves. Some sins are private, some sins are public, but they are all bad. The key is repentance. Repentance means trying your level best not to fall into the same type of sin again. I'd say Josh has not come to grips with that yet. Hopefully he does.

[unofan]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

All sin is equal in God's eyes.

Yeah, no. There's no way a just god views the telling of a little white lie the same as murder. Apparently we're no longer doing the whole venial vs. mortal sin thing?

[joecct]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

Yeah, no. There's no way a just god views the telling of a little white lie the same as murder. Apparently we're no longer doing the whole venial vs. mortal sin thing?

All sin is equal in God's eyes, so none of us can sit hear and snark at him when all of us sin everyday without snarking at ourselves. Some sins are private, some sins are public, but they are all bad. The key is repentance. Repentance means trying your level best not to fall into the same type of sin again. I'd say Josh has not come to grips with that yet. Hopefully he does.

From the Catholic point of view there are two types of sins - Mortal (Felony) and venial (misdemeanor). All sins can be expunged via the confessional and receive absolution from the priest. In terms of seriousness, an unconfessed/unabsolved mortal sin at death leads you to Hell with no stopping points. Venial sins need to be expunged in Purgatory.

Even if you have been forgiven, the prospect of immediate ascension into Heaven is not guaranteed. If you led a sinful, vain life you will most likely spend time in Purgatory.

[Kepler]

Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

From the Catholic point of view there are two types of sins - Mortal (Felony) and venial (misdemeanor). All sins can be expunged via the confessional and receive absolution from the priest. In terms of seriousness, an unconfessed/unabsolved mortal sin at death leads you to Hell with no stopping points. Venial sins need to be expunged in Purgatory.

Even if you have been forgiven, the prospect of immediate ascension into Heaven is not guaranteed. If you led a sinful, vain life you will most likely spend time in Purgatory.

CE is so awesome. But I'm confused by something. The sinner is in Purgatory because he has to "work off" his insufficient contrition for his sins. So how are prayers for him effective? Seems like a guy with a lot of friends (or a lot of money for an endowment for prayers said in his name) is getting off light.

[LynahFan]

CE is so awesome. But I'm confused by something. The sinner is in Purgatory because he has to "work off" his insufficient contrition for his sins. So how are prayers for him effective? Seems like a guy with a lot of friends (or a lot of money for an endowment for prayers said in his name) is getting off light.

If that bothers you, don't Google "indulgences." That'll make your head spin.