Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 67
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 67 template Next
  • #451
    Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!

    Originally posted by unofan View Post
    You mean like how they grant less than 1% of all writs for cert in a given year?
    I don't know that 1% is that small of a number based on the size of the country.
    Go Gophers!

    Comment

    • #452
      Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
      I don't know that 1% is that small of a number based on the size of the country.
      They grant roughly 70 cases per year, which is about half of what they grabbed even 20 years ago. I hardly think they're over worked.

      Comment

      • #453
        Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!

        Originally posted by unofan View Post
        They grant roughly 70 cases per year, which is about half of what they grabbed even 20 years ago. I hardly think they're over worked.
        Why the big drop in certs?
        Cornell University
        National Champion 1967, 1970
        ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
        Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

        Comment

        • #454
          Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!

          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
          All of this is correct. I don't know anybody who thinks Kelo was either good law or even a good thing. Who could other than shady developers and investors? This is unique in that it was a 5-4 in which the 4 conservative justices got it right.

          Presumably the Court could grant cert to related cases and gradually erode Kelo. This has been what's happened with Roe. The Court does get it wrong sometimes (Dred Scott, Plessy, Lochner) and there are mechanisms for amending (the first two) or walking it back (the latter). There seems to be a shakeout period after a terrible decision when the opposition figures out which approach is needed. For example, post Citizens United and McCutcheon it seems like an amendment will be required to stop the buying of elections.
          I think Kelo was decided correctly.
          That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

          Comment

          • #455
            Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!

            Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
            I think Kelo was decided correctly.
            Can you explain why? Seems like an abuse of a government power to to me. I understand eminent domain when you're building the transcontinental railroad and the guy sitting on the only pass through the Rockies is trying to hold you up. That's an overwhelming public interest and Murray Rothbard can go screw. But a shopping mall for some greedy developer? That seems like straight graft.
            Cornell University
            National Champion 1967, 1970
            ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
            Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

            Comment

            • #456
              Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!

              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              Why the big drop in certs?
              Part of it is how they decide to take cases. Now they vote. It was part of the Supreme Court Case Selections Act

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suprem...Selections_Act
              Code:
              As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
College Hockey 6       College Football 0
BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
              Originally posted by SanTropez
              May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
              Originally posted by bigblue_dl
              I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
              Originally posted by Kepler
              When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
              He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

              Comment

              • #457
                Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!

                Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                I think Kelo was decided correctly.
                I vehemently disagree with this. One of the founding principles of our country was the Lockian take on property (or at least the broad definition of property). Private property was and should be sacred. Only in cases of public interest such as highways, hospitals, etc. should there be an exception to that. This private development thing was probably the single worst decision of my lifetime that I can remember. Yes, I'd even put it ahead of Citizens United.

                O'Connor said it best:
                Any property may now be taken for the benefit of another private party, but the fallout from this decision will not be random. The beneficiaries are likely to be those citizens with disproportionate influence and power in the political process, including large corporations and development firms. As for the victims, the government now has license to transfer property from those with fewer resources to those with more. The Founders cannot have intended this perverse result.
                Last edited by dxmnkd316; 06-30-2015, 09:01 AM.
                Code:
                As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
College Hockey 6       College Football 0
BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                Originally posted by SanTropez
                May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                Originally posted by Kepler
                When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                Comment

                • #458
                  Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!

                  Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                  I vehemently disagree with this. One of the founding principles of our country was the Lockian take on property (or at least the broad definition of property). Private property was and should be sacred. Only in cases of public interest such as highways, hospitals, etc. should there be an exception to that. This private development thing was probably the single worst decision of my lifetime that I can remember. Yes, I'd even put it ahead of Citizens United.
                  I probably lose my Comintern card, but I agree with this (although "sacred" is a tad over the top ).

                  O'Connor's opinion is spot on -- this was "reverse Robin Hood." What could have been going on in the liberal justices' minds? It's so obvious that the practical result of this decision would be giving the wealthy yet another Neo-feudalist tool.
                  Cornell University
                  National Champion 1967, 1970
                  ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                  Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                  Comment

                  • #459
                    Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!

                    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                    Can you explain why? Seems like an abuse of a government power to to me. I understand eminent domain when you're building the transcontinental railroad and the guy sitting on the only pass through the Rockies is trying to hold you up. That's an overwhelming public interest and Murray Rothbard can go screw. But a shopping mall for some greedy developer? That seems like straight graft.
                    I look at it this way.

                    I've always considered our ownership of land to basically be at the pleasure of the government. Sure, we "own" it because we paid for it from someone else who "owned" it, but at the end of the day we all basically own it because the government said we could, and gave us a patent for it. If they want it back, they're going to take it back.

                    Second, I do view the "public use" requirement broadly. It's not just for a new police station or fire station or road. To have a viable community, we need a trade center, we need multi-family housing, a variety of things that may frequently be constructed and maintained by private entities, but often times need the "boost" of initial public dollar involvement to make it worth doing. We depend upon local government to make a plan for a viable community, and sometimes that means figuring out that we need some low income housing or retail development in a certain area.

                    Third, the government doesn't just take Mrs. Kelo's home and throw her out in the street with her suitcase full of clothes. They are required to pay fair or just compensation. Frequently that will include not only payment for the fair market value of the property, but relocation expenses and the like. I know in many states the compensation to be paid is ultimately determined by a jury. Pretty hard not to look sympathetic as a homeowner who loses their home.

                    The thing about eminent domain is this. It's never the taking, only to give to the private party, that is objectionable to the current property owner. That's just the lawyer coming up with a creative argument. It's the taking itself. No one likes the disruption, or the loss of property they've come to love, like their home. People who lose their home to the creation of a new fire station object just as loudly as someone who loses their home to a new multi-family housing complex owned and operated by a private developer.

                    As with anything involving the interaction of public officials and private business, the opportunity for corruption or misuse exists. But at the end of the day I think it does more good than harm.
                    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                    Comment

                    • #460
                      Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!

                      Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                      I look at it this way.

                      I've always considered our ownership of land to basically be at the pleasure of the government. Sure, we "own" it because we paid for it from someone else who "owned" it, but at the end of the day we all basically own it because the government said we could, and gave us a patent for it. If they want it back, they're going to take it back.

                      Second, I do view the "public use" requirement broadly. It's not just for a new police station or fire station or road. To have a viable community, we need a trade center, we need multi-family housing, a variety of things that may frequently be constructed and maintained by private entities, but often times need the "boost" of initial public dollar involvement to make it worth doing. We depend upon local government to make a plan for a viable community, and sometimes that means figuring out that we need some low income housing or retail development in a certain area.

                      Third, the government doesn't just take Mrs. Kelo's home and throw her out in the street with her suitcase full of clothes. They are required to pay fair or just compensation. Frequently that will include not only payment for the fair market value of the property, but relocation expenses and the like. I know in many states the compensation to be paid is ultimately determined by a jury. Pretty hard not to look sympathetic as a homeowner who loses their home.

                      The thing about eminent domain is this. It's never the taking, only to give to the private party, that is objectionable to the current property owner. That's just the lawyer coming up with a creative argument. It's the taking itself. No one likes the disruption, or the loss of property they've come to love, like their home. People who lose their home to the creation of a new fire station object just as loudly as someone who loses their home to a new multi-family housing complex owned and operated by a private developer.

                      As with anything involving the interaction of public officials and private business, the opportunity for corruption or misuse exists. But at the end of the day I think it does more good than harm.
                      They don't have to pay anything. Especially when a monopoly is in the back pocket. http://offgridsurvival.com/evicted-f...-off-the-grid/

                      Comment

                      • #461
                        Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!

                        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                        I probably lose my Comintern card, but I agree with this (although "sacred" is a tad over the top ).

                        O'Connor's opinion is spot on -- this was "reverse Robin Hood." What could have been going on in the liberal justices' minds? It's so obvious that the practical result of this decision would be giving the wealthy yet another Neo-feudalist tool.
                        I dunno. I can't think of a better term for it . I've always viewed government's #1 (or at least very near the top) job is protecting a person's property. Again, the term "property" is broadly defined as a person's earned possessions as well as life and liberty. I really think the founding fathers were keen on Locke as some of what he wrote was borrowed from in writing the DoI and Constitution IIRC.

                        Regarding the liberal wing of the court, I remember my dad not believing for a second that it was the conservative wing of the court that voted to stop this "perverse" expansion of eminent domain. He couldn't believe it.
                        Code:
                        As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
College Hockey 6       College Football 0
BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                        Originally posted by SanTropez
                        May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                        Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                        I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                        Originally posted by Kepler
                        When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                        He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                        Comment

                        • #462
                          Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!

                          Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                          I look at it this way.

                          I've always considered our ownership of land to basically be at the pleasure of the government. Sure, we "own" it because we paid for it from someone else who "owned" it, but at the end of the day we all basically own it because the government said we could, and gave us a patent for it. If they want it back, they're going to take it back.
                          I don't think you can consider this statement a very american way of viewing the government and private property.
                          Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                          Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

                          Comment

                          • #463
                            Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!

                            I agree. The idea that we are essentially leasing property from the government is just bizarre. The government came after the people, not before it.
                            Code:
                            As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
College Hockey 6       College Football 0
BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                            Originally posted by SanTropez
                            May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                            Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                            I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                            Originally posted by Kepler
                            When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                            He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                            Comment

                            • #464
                              Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!

                              Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                              I dunno. I can't think of a better term for it . I've always viewed government's #1 (or at least very near the top) job is protecting a person's property.
                              Government's #1 duty is to prevent the strong from kicking the snot out of the weak. So the government prevents gangs from violating property rights and stealing, but it also prevents gangs of lawyers from ensuring that the law only protects the propertied classes. Typically, the choice is not life or death, so property protection is paramount. But if the choice is life or death, sorry Monty Burns, you've gotta share.

                              It's entirely possible the Founders would disagree, because the Founders still lived in a mental space where there was an economic caste system and folks who didn't own 10k acres in Virginia were SOL. Alexander Hamilton is perfectly free to come back from the grave and lecture me if he feels like it. He knows where to find me.
                              Cornell University
                              National Champion 1967, 1970
                              ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                              Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                              Comment

                              • #465
                                Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!

                                Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                                Alexander Hamilton is perfectly free to come back from the grave and lecture me if he feels like it. He knows where to find me.
                                I particularly enjoyed this line
                                Code:
                                As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
College Hockey 6       College Football 0
BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                                Originally posted by SanTropez
                                May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                                Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                                I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                                Originally posted by Kepler
                                When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                                He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                                Comment

                                Previous 1 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 67 template Next
                                Working...
                                X