Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

If the world passes me by, going backwards, I'm not obligated to hop on the train headed the wrong way. See how easy that was to flip around?

The world is always "getting worse." People compare the world of today to what they remember from their childhood, when they were oblivious to problems and their parents took care of them, or to their prime, when they felt great and their potential was infinite.

We get overburdened and old. It's not the world that's getting worse.

[Bob Gray]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

The world is always "getting worse." People compare the world of today to what they remember from their childhood, when they were oblivious to problems and their parents took care of them, or to their prime, when they felt great and their potential was infinite.

We get overburdened and old. It's not the world that's getting worse.

Generically speaking, it's possible for things to get better or worse. To think otherwise to me is totally illogical. Now how one defines whether things get better or worse certainly varies depending on one's perspectives on things. I know you trot out this notion every so often that it's just people getting older and so things seem rosey from their past/childhood. There's a vein of truth there, but there's also things in the world that actually do change, and these days change happens faster and faster. The world is a very different place from 50 or even 20 or 10 years ago and one could consider the various changes to be for the better, worse, or meh.

[joecct]

You think I'd be a fan of Ollie's Puritan dictatorship? You're confusing me with Tony Perkins.

Ahh. How about the Glorious Revolution then?

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Generically speaking, it's possible for things to get better or worse. To think otherwise to me is totally illogical. Now how one defines whether things get better or worse certainly varies depending on one's perspectives on things. I know you trot out this notion every so often that it's just people getting older and so things seem rosey from their past/childhood. There's a vein of truth there, but there's also things in the world that actually do change, and these days change happens faster and faster. The world is a very different place from 50 or even 20 or 10 years ago and one could consider the various changes to be for the better, worse, or meh.

Since in every age most people have thought "the world is in decline" it is either a psychological reaction to aging or the world has literally been in decline for as long as we have written records. I find the latter hypothesis unlikely.

Here's how I find the world different from 35 years ago, my earliest personal comparison point:

+ there is less overt racism
+ there is less overt sexism
+ there is far, far less homophobia
+ more people have at least the possibility of exposure to more knowledge via the internet
+ there is less violent crime
+ the threat of nuclear annihilation is less
+ people don't just throw their litter everywhere
+ there's much less smoking
+ there appears to be much less "routinized" child and spousal abuse
+ many technologies, particularly in medicine, are far improved

To me, those are all concrete improvements in the quality of life of most people. I would say that objectively the median experience today is superior to the median experience in 1980 both materially (more cool stuff) and morally (fewer people being treated like crap).

[Kepler]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Ahh. How about the Glorious Revolution then?

It's all just shuffling the desk chairs in Britain. That island holds very little personal interest for me.

[St. Clown]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

The world is always "getting worse." People compare the world of today to what they remember from their childhood, when they were oblivious to problems and their parents took care of them, or to their prime, when they felt great and their potential was infinite.

We get overburdened and old. It's not the world that's getting worse.

I don't know about that. When you over-generalize, you disallow great swings in culture and world events. When considered in the overall periods of history, the fall of the Roman Empire created worse conditions for the plebes in Western Europe. They went from living in a fairly safe society with great architectural achievements to living in a feudal system with lesser buildings and infrastructure, their lives at the whims of the local lords (though that might be little changed from the regional governors prior). Then you have the Black Plague, which created a period of tremendous hardship and strain on the common person, but ultimately made for a better life as it ultimately created the rise of a middle class society of merchants and craftsmen and thereby the Renaissance. The problem is that society rarely knows it's in the midst of a great cultural or world swing until late in the process or the change has completed.

[5mn_Major]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

The world is always "getting worse." People compare the world of today to what they remember from their childhood, when they were oblivious to problems and their parents took care of them, or to their prime, when they felt great and their potential was infinite.

We get overburdened and old. It's not the world that's getting worse.

This is my opinion as well. We are just more informed of challenges and psychologically take to heart issues beyond our control. The world is in many ways much better than its ever been and will be better tomorrow...on a number of levels - information technology, healthcare, ease of travel, lifestyle choices.

[Bob Gray]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

Since in every age most people have thought "the world is in decline" it is either a psychological reaction to aging or the world has literally been in decline for as long as we have written records. I find the latter hypothesis unlikely.

Here's how I find the world different from 35 years ago, my earliest personal comparison point:

+ there is less overt racism
+ there is less overt sexism
+ there is far, far less homophobia
+ more people have at least the possibility of exposure to more knowledge via the internet
+ there is less violent crime
+ the threat of nuclear annihilation is less
+ people don't just throw their litter everywhere
+ there's much less smoking
+ there appears to be much less "routinized" child and spousal abuse
+ many technologies, particularly in medicine, are far improved

To me, those are all concrete improvements in the quality of life of most people. I would say that objectively the median experience today is superior to the median experience in 1980 both materially (more cool stuff) and morally (fewer people being treated like crap).

Actually if you look at the history of our nation, for most of our nation's history the general sense was that things were getting better. Talking to older generations, that was the sense through a large part of their life, until relatively recently.

[Rover]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

The problem for me is that every older conservative, almost to a person, has the same refrain. The world is doomed and we're martyrs for being the only ones to point it out. Maybe its a generational thing but its trite as all hell.

What's funny about that is the patron saint of these people is Reagan, a guy who was actually the epitome of sunny optimism. Can anyone name me a happy conservative politician? I can't. Or talk show host? I remember listening to Limbaugh 20+ years ago when he first hit the mainstream and I didn't know anything about him. He was all about conservative ascendancy. Fast forward to today and its black helicopter conspiracy theories.

So Bob, the problem isn't with society. The problem is with you. Give it a rest already, take some meds and cheer up.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

The problem for me is that every older conservative, almost to a person, has the same refrain. The world is doomed and we're martyrs for being the only ones to point it out. Maybe its a generational thing but its trite as all hell.

What's funny about that is the patron saint of these people is Reagan, a guy who was actually the epitome of sunny optimism. Can anyone name me a happy conservative politician? I can't. Or talk show host? I remember listening to Limbaugh 20+ years ago when he first hit the mainstream and I didn't know anything about him. He was all about conservative ascendancy. Fast forward to today and its black helicopter conspiracy theories.

So Bob, the problem isn't with society. The problem is with you. Give it a rest already, take some meds and cheer up.

You know what's funny? It's the conservatives that have smiles on their faces, and the lefties that have the scowls.

[Bob Gray]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

The problem for me is that every older conservative, almost to a person, has the same refrain. The world is doomed and we're martyrs for being the only ones to point it out. Maybe its a generational thing but its trite as all hell.

What's funny about that is the patron saint of these people is Reagan, a guy who was actually the epitome of sunny optimism. Can anyone name me a happy conservative politician? I can't. Or talk show host? I remember listening to Limbaugh 20+ years ago when he first hit the mainstream and I didn't know anything about him. He was all about conservative ascendancy. Fast forward to today and its black helicopter conspiracy theories.

So Bob, the problem isn't with society. The problem is with you. Give it a rest already, take some meds and cheer up.

Nice little spiel, even if it's way off target and just another way liberals try to silence those who don't walk in lock step with them.

Kind of a reverse George Costanza thing, eh?

[Bob Gray]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

You know what's funny? It's the conservatives that have smiles on their faces, and the lefties that have the scowls.

There's plenty of scowls around. All depends on how people find joy in life and whether they do. But anyone too bent around the axel on politics and thinking they can fix the world and all the stuff other people and the government should do if only everyone would do as they do, will likely have a scowl.

[Handyman]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

You are buying into the idea that we're "selling out" Israel if we don't march lock-step with Likud and the far right settlers.

There's a lot more to Israel than those crazies, and there's a lot more to an alliance than blindly approving everything one segment of their population does.

The Middle East is where the notion of "white hats vs black hats" goes to die. Everybody there has blood on their hands and we can't understand any of their perspectives because every issue involving violence (racial tension, religious tension, terrorism, national defense) is turned up to 11. The only Americans who can potentially understand what it's like to live as an Israeli or a Palestinian or a Syrian or an Iraqi might be people in an East LA ghetto who haven't had one hour without gunfire since 1966.

The Revisionist Zionists are terrified and their solution is to keep pushing outwards no matter who gets hurt along the way. That's one solution, and it finds deep resonance with the American far right for some psychological reason. Labor Zionists are terrified and their solution is to try and reach out and compromise, making common cause with moderates on the other side to try to isolate the terrorists. That's another solution, and many of us think it's a lot more practical and likely to calm things down than the constant chest-beating and aggression of the settler movement and its far-far-far right enablers.

Don't try to tell us that preferring one of the two mainstream Israeli political alliances is "anti-Israel" or "abandoning Israel." That's BS right from the Likud-GOP electioneering playbook.

No but I know plenty who do. And lets not pretend that if the liberal party had won in Israel that all of a sudden the Dems wouldnt flip the script ok. This is all about political maneuvering this is has nothing to do whatsover with what is best for us or the Middle East. The Left is no better than the Right on this and you both partake in the same game the Iranians and all other actors in the Middle East do...hell we practically invented it. The Arab Nations use Palestinians as weapons and Israel as means to raise capitol and centralize power. America uses Palestinians as a check on Israel (and to prove they care) and uses Israel as the guard dog and a beach head. (and to get some of that awesome Jewish money they covet so much) Well guess what, the Palestinians dont buy our BS anymore (nor should they) and the Israelis know we are all bark and no bite. No matter who is in charge it is always "we sympathize with what you are going through, but now is a time for peace and to fix things" which sounds great except for the fact that what is good for the goose isnt quite good for the gander. It took 1 attack on America and we stole rights from the people, created a surveillance state that would make H.G. Wells blush and spy on our own allies. And that just didnt happen under W, the great Liberal Wing had control over Congress and the Presidency and spit on the Constitution just as much.

This isnt just about the Middle East, it is about everything in politics. No one actually cares about the details, it is all about enforcing their agenda. You and your cohorts on both sides dont seem to get it though that the people you use as pawns in your little game of king of the mountain sooner or later dont buy into it anymore and will point out your flat out hypocrisy.

Keep pretending your better though, that has done America a lot of good around the world. I mean it wasnt the Obama Administration that was in charge of spying on our allies...oh wait.

Of course what would I know, I only have skin in the game...do you?

(posted by someone who votes Middle-Left)

[Rover]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

You know what's funny? It's the conservatives that have smiles on their faces, and the lefties that have the scowls.

Well, I don't know what's going on from your vantage point in your mom's basement but a quick read of conservative posters out here will tell a much, much different story. Most people who think the governnment of the United Nations is about to impose a New World Order aren't walking around with smiles on their faces.

[Rover]

Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!

There's plenty of scowls around. All depends on how people find joy in life and whether they do. But anyone too bent around the axel on politics and thinking they can fix the world and all the stuff other people and the government should do if only everyone would do as they do, will likely have a scowl.

Are you smiling when you're nailed to your own cross, or does that come sometime afterwards?