Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

    Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
    More positioning as reality than we usually see from a personal belief system. The only guaranteed reality are the actions people take from faith and their outcomes.
    "You are what you do."

    But it's still not a guarantee. Three men commit murder out of a sense of justice: one because he believes he has a right to unrestrained freedom, the second because he believes the victim is possessed by the devil, the third because he believes the victim has dishonored his daughter. The outcomes are identical, and yet we feel a personal belief system grounded on "justice" is still a pretty good start -- it's certainly not wholly invalidated by these actions.
    Cornell University
    National Champion 1967, 1970
    ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
    Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

    Comment


    • Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

      Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
      I meant "evil" as applied solely to human activity, the deliberate infliction of pain and suffering on others for one's own personal gratification.
      I think you're confusing sadism with evil.

      However: arguendo, what has that to do with God? Since you are locating the agency within a person (the one being gratified), no supernatural hypothesis is required.

      Good and evil are not entities, they are comparatives. The fallacy of God and the devil is mistaking adjectives for nouns.
      Cornell University
      National Champion 1967, 1970
      ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
      Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

      Comment


      • Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

        Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
        There's a fundamental concept in logic call the contrapositive.

        It is an identity: basically, if P --> Q, then automatically ~Q --> ~P.

        Using this logic, one of the most persuasive arguments in favor of the existence of "god" is the prevalence of evil.
        Nope. Not even close to persuasive.

        In Venn diagram terms, you're saying that the circle for "existence of god" (P) is entirely contained within the circle for "existence of good" (Q). That is, if god exists then good will definitely exist. However, none of those circles have *anything* to do with the existence of evil. The space outside of the "existence of good" circle is "good does not exist" which is an entirely different statement than "evil does exist." The existence of evil would be a 3rd independent circle (R) which has not been constrained in any way by your "if P then Q" premise - it could overlap with Q, with both P and Q, or with neither of them. If it overlaps with Q at all, then there will absolutely, 100% be cases where both good and evil would exist without god (Q and R and ~P) regardless of whether R also overlaps with P. In other words, the existence of evil is in no way related to the existence of god.

        What pseudo-intellectual wannabe theologian did you lift that cacology from?
        If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

        Comment


        • Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

          Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
          I meant "evil" as applied solely to human activity, the deliberate infliction of pain and suffering on others for one's own personal gratification.
          Some (although not me) would believe that evil is very common, for example when they are tempted by lust...there is some evil at work. The definition you are applying is extremely narrow (although I wouldn't debate it) and would seem to me to be the type of evil that few in modern western society encounter in their entire lives.
          Go Gophers!

          Comment


          • Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

            If one opens it up to temptation, then might as well include all 124 from the New Testament:


            1. Abusers of Self: Self polluters, having unnatural lusts

            2. Adultery (Note: Only for those who have been married)

            3. Anger

            4. Backbiters: Those whospeak evil of those who are absent

            5. Banqueting: A drinking party

            6. Becoming a Stumbling Block to a Weak Brother Through Our Liberty: Taking liberty to do things without thinking of the effect on a weaker brother's conscience.

            7. Being Angry With One's Brother: Expressing unkind thought or action toward others

            8. Bitterness

            9. Blasphemy

            10. Boasting

            11. Brawling

            12. Brother Going to Law Against Brother: No definition given, so I'll wing it. Bringing legal action against another. If someone has a better definition, please let me know.

            13. Burying our Talents: Not making wise use of what God gave us

            14. Calling One's Brother A Fool: Ridiculing another

            15. Chambering: Unmarried people living and sleeping together

            16. Clamor: Loud, continued noises

            17. Complaining

            18. Contentious:Quarrelsome

            19. Corrupt Communications:Unprofitable or impure language

            20. Covenant Breakers: Lightly breaking a solemn or legal pact.

            21. Covetousness

            22. Craftiness: Cunningness

            23. Debate

            24. Deceit

            25. Defiling the Body

            26. Defraud

            27. Denying Christ

            28. Desiring the Praise of Men: Doing things to gain praise.

            29. Despiteful

            30. Dishonesty

            31. Disobedience to Parents

            32. Divisions: Forming splits or schisms in groups

            33. Divorce

            34. Double Tongued: Making insincere statements

            35. Drunkenness

            36. Eating the Bread, or Drinking The Lord's Cup Unworthily: Taking communion while living in sin

            37. Effeminate: Unmanly or womanish man.

            38. Emulations: Ambition to excel

            39. Envy

            40. Evil Concupiscence: Longing or desire for forbidden things.

            41. Evil Eye: Having selfish motives

            42. Evil Thoughts: Worthless, injurious, or depraved thoughts

            43. Extortion

            44. Fathers Provoking Children to Wrath: Frustrating children through harsh treatment and/or failure to communicate.

            45. Fearful: Discouraged, anxious, faithless

            46. Filthiness

            47. Filthy Lucre: Recieving personal gain through unrighteousness.

            48. Finding Faults With Others While Having a Greater Fault Ourself

            49. Foolishness

            50. Foolish talking : Silliness.

            51. Giving False Witness

            52. Fornication

            53. Giving Offense: Causing another to fall spiritually by our example.

            54. Greediness

            55. Guile: Deceit

            56. Haters of God

            57. Hatred

            58. Having Evil Treasures in the Heart: (The definition doesn't make any more sense).

            59. Having Pleasure in Them That Do Things Worthy of Death: Enjoying the company of sinners.

            60. Hearing the Sayings of Christ, but Not Following Them

            61. Heresies: Religious opinion different from established Scripture.

            62. Highmindedness: Arrogant

            63. Hypocrisy

            64. Idle Words: Words of no value.

            65. Idolatry: Loving someone or something more than God.

            66. Implacable: Refusing to be appeased

            67. Inordinate Affection: Passion, lust.

            68. Inventors of Evil Things: Those who contrive evil ways to satisfy their carnal lusts.

            69. Jesting: Talking to make others laugh.

            70. Judging

            71. Knowing to Do Good, but Doing it Not

            72. Lasciviousness: Lustful, wanton, exciting lust.

            73. Laying Up Treasures on Earth: Pursuing material success at the expense of spiritual things.

            74. Living in Pleasure: Fond of luxury and sensual pleasure/gratification.

            75. Lovers of Self

            76. Loving Another Person More Than Jesus

            77. Lusting After a Woman

            78. Lying

            79. Maliciousness

            80. Malignity: Being harmful or dangerous, bad character.

            81. A Man Prophesying or Praying With His Head Covered.

            82. Mockery

            83. Murder

            84. Murmering: Grumbling, secretly complaining

            85. Presumptious

            86. Pride: Self esteem.

            87. Puffed Up: Overestimating of one's ability or knowledge.

            88. Purloining

            89. Railing: Slander

            90. Revellings: Overindulgence at feasts, merrymaking.

            91. Rioting

            92. Seditions: Stirring up opposition against authority.

            93. Self Will: Arrogant

            94. Speaking Against the Holy Ghost

            95. Sorcery: Practicing magic with aid from evil spirits.

            96. Speaking Evil of Dignities: Speaking ill of those to be honored.

            97. Stealing

            98. Stiff-Necked and Uncircumcised in Hearts and Ears: Obstinate

            99. Strife: Quarreling, seeking superiority

            100. Striker: Ready to Fight

            101. Swearing: To take oath (as in court).

            102. Teaching for Doctrine the Commandments of Men: Neglecting God's commandments by manmade interpretation or commandments.

            103. Traitors

            104. Trusting in Riches

            105. Not Entering by the Door Into the Sheepfold: Seeking salvation through means other than the blood of Christ.

            106. Unbelief: Lack of faith.

            107. Uncleanness

            108. Unforgiving Heart

            109. Unmerciful

            110. Unrighteousness: Moral wrongfulness.

            111. Unthankfulness

            112. Vain Jangling: Babbling.

            113. Variance: Strife

            114. Voluntary Humility: False humilty.

            115. Wantonness: Lustful, morally unrestrained.

            116. Whisperers: Secretly spreading false or slanderous information.

            117. Whoremongers:One who associates with whores, a male prostitute.

            118. Witchcraft

            119. Wickedness: Evil practices, crime.

            120. Without Normal Affection: Hardhearted.

            121. Without Understanding: Unwise

            122. Wrath

            123. Woman Cutting Her Hair

            124. Woman Prophesying or Praying With Her Head Uncovered
            Cornell University
            National Champion 1967, 1970
            ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
            Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

            Comment


            • Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

              Mainstream unbiased source on that one? Although several Greek words were translated as evil in the middle ages...the modern day English word evil has changed to be far more extreme. Of various Biblical Greek words to give negative connotation, poneros is probably the worst...and today is defined first and foremost as just 'bad'.

              The list is pretty silly list to begin with...but with the changed definition of evil it's doubly so.
              Go Gophers!

              Comment


              • Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

                The case for April 3, 0033 as the date of crucifixion. If this was the Julian calendar, the Gregorian Calendar conversion yields April 1, 0033 as the date of crucifixion.

                Who said God does not have a sense of humor??
                CCT '77 & '78
                4 kids
                5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                - Benjamin Franklin

                Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                Comment


                • Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

                  Originally posted by joecct View Post
                  The case for April 3, 0033 as the date of crucifixion. If this was the Julian calendar, the Gregorian Calendar conversion yields April 1, 0033 as the date of crucifixion.

                  Who said God does not have a sense of humor??
                  Yeah.

                  I thought Jesus was 33 when he died and that the best guess is he was born in 3 BC?
                  Cornell University
                  National Champion 1967, 1970
                  ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                  Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                  Comment


                  • Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

                    There is an acid test for the existence of God, and it will come next weekend. If the Sioux fail to win a banner, that will be conclusive evidence that there is no god--at least a just one.

                    If the Sioux win, I suppose that still leaves open the possibility that there is no god, but the chances would have to increase quite a bit, it seems to me.

                    Go God!

                    Comment


                    • Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

                      Originally posted by burd View Post
                      There is an acid test for the existence of God, and it will come next weekend. If the Sioux fail to win a banner, that will be conclusive evidence that there is no god--at least a just one.

                      If the Sioux win, I suppose that still leaves open the possibility that there is no god, but the chances would have to increase quite a bit, it seems to me.

                      Go God!
                      I'd have thought God would have the Friars' back? He already handed them a providential regional.

                      I'll show myself out.
                      Cornell University
                      National Champion 1967, 1970
                      ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                      Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by burd View Post
                        There is an acid test for the existence of God, and it will come next weekend. If the Sioux fail to win a banner, that will be conclusive evidence that there is no god--at least a just one.

                        If the Sioux win, I suppose that still leaves open the possibility that there is no god, but the chances would have to increase quite a bit, it seems to me.

                        Go God!
                        That UND ever reached 5 already proved there isn't one.

                        However should they win it all you're precisely the type of fan for which I'd truly be happy.
                        Last edited by Slap Shot; 04-02-2015, 05:34 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

                          Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
                          That UND ever reached 5 already proved there isn't one.

                          However should they win it all you're precisely the type of fan for which I'd truly be happy.
                          From your perspective, that's pretty tight logic. On the other hand, the fact that it has taken UMinn so long to get to 5 is pretty convincing proof there is one.

                          Could this be a God with a sadistic sense of humor, or is the world a sidewalk on a sunny day and God an 8-year-old with magnifying glass?

                          Comment


                          • Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

                            Happy Easter all!
                            Go Gophers!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                              Happy Easter all!
                              Remind me again...What does the rabbit hiding chocolate eggs have to do with Zombie Jesus?

                              Comment


                              • Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

                                Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                                Remind me again...What does the rabbit hiding chocolate eggs have to do with Zombie Jesus?
                                Its an avenue to engage children in a holiday when they are too young otherwise...and has become tradition. Enjoy your Easter anyways!
                                Go Gophers!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X