Shannon Miller out at UMD?

[brookyone]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Who knows? They both have ulterior motives. And when disputes are played out in the public arena the combatants usually seize every opportunity that comes their way to influence the court of public opinion (and potentially get inside their opponent's head and mess with it) especially after they've done lawyered up.

Sorta like with WCHA officials then eh?

[driventoit]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Interesting piece on lawsuits going viral, including reference to UMD.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/23/us...dayspaper&_r=0

[pokechecker]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Who knows? They both have ulterior motives. And when disputes are played out in the public arena the combatants usually seize every opportunity that comes their way to influence the court of public opinion (and potentially get inside their opponent's head and mess with it) especially after they've done lawyered up.

what is Nichol's ulterior motive? did you even read the article you posted? do you even know who she is?

[Blackbeard]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

what is Nichol's ulterior motive? did you even read the article you posted? do you even know who she is?

Of course I read the article before posting it. I didn't think it was complicated.

Her motive is to put the best spin on the situation by asserting that she and UMD "have made great strides in improving the campus climate since she opened the office in 2000." To do otherwise would be to admit something other than success with respect to both her and UMD's involvement on this issue. Regardless of whether or not it is true, the statement serves to add a positive spin to the other side of one of the possible points of contention between Miller and UMD.

[D2D]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

My understanding is that Shannon Miller and her attorneys are in the process of deciding whether or not to proceed with a lawsuit against the University of Minnesota-Duluth. If the decision to proceed has not yet been made, they're probably close to making that decision. Or it's possible that they've already decided to proceed, but are waiting until the team's season is behind them. As a fan of the women's game, but with no ties to the school, I'm curious about a couple of things.

First, would her suit against the University, if filed, be limited to monetary damages only? Or, in other words, if she's successful would there be any chance that she could be reinstated as head coach for a negotiated (or court-ordered) salary? Or is it a given that her tenure as UMD's head coach is over, with or without any monetary damages the court rules she may be entitled to?

All this makes me curious what her real objective truly is. On this one can only speculate...

I also wonder if a filed lawsuit at season's end would affect the timing of when the search for a replacement coach begins, and then announced? And perhaps more importantly, to what extent will the naming of a new coach have on current players transferring to other schools? And, in the near future, with all the uncertainty of the (likely?) change in coaching staffs, will UMD still be able to recruit top players from the U.S., Canada and - perhaps more importantly - Europe?

The situation right now is obviously very unsettled, and there is still a season to finish. Don't count the Bulldogs out!

They're a Minnesota school, and as a Minnesota hockey fan and former Duluth resident, I want them to succeed in the WCHA and nationally, except of course when they're playing my Gophers. But their future right now is, at best, cloudy, and I worry a bit about "Life after Shannon".

Comments/Speculation welcome.

[Eeyore]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

First, would her suit against the University, if filed, be limited to monetary damages only? Or, in other words, if she's successful would there be any chance that she could be reinstated as head coach for a negotiated (or court-ordered) salary? Or is it a given that her tenure as UMD's head coach is over, with or without any monetary damages the court rules she may be entitled to?

Her tenure at UMD is over. Courts are extremely reluctant to order specific performance and will almost never order an employer to rehire someone. Most of the instances of this that you hear of fall into one of three categories:

1) It was actually an arbitration case rather than one before the courts, but even this is rare;
2) It was actually an order that the defendant pay out the wages that would have been owed under the contract and the defendant decides that if they're going to be paying the wages anyway, they will require the plaintiff to show up for work;
3) Reinstatement is required by the employment contract, whether it is individually negotiated or part of a collective bargaining agreement.

In this case, Shannon Miller had no contract beyond the end of this season, so there isn't any contract going forward that UMD could be required to fulfill. So the possibility of a ruling for specific performance drops from "astoundingly unlikely" to "zero."

[ARM]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

But their future right now is, at best, cloudy, and I worry a bit about "Life after Shannon".

The future would have been cloudy even with Shannon. A lot of the Bulldogs' impact is graduating, and I wasn't overly impressed by the group of freshmen that was supposed to be a big upgrade over those players who were sent packing. Four straight 4th place finishes. If that's a dynasty, then I'd say most of the spin is coming from the litigant.

[Blackbeard]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

First, would her suit against the University, if filed, be limited to monetary damages only? Or, in other words, if she's successful would there be any chance that she could be reinstated as head coach for a negotiated (or court-ordered) salary? Or is it a given that her tenure as UMD's head coach is over, with or without any monetary damages the court rules she may be entitled to?

If her relationship with the AD was previously less than ideal as has been indicated and if it somehow turned out that she could be reinstated, if she was interested, can you imagine how tense the relationship between the two of them would then be? It is possible that she might still do it because she might think that it is the right outcome for her, undoing a wrong as it were, and/or she might be interested because of the gigantic public statement that she might perceive such an outcome would be making if gender discrimination became a large enough part of the legal battle. Either way, I think it is safe to say that she would view it as a victory for either reason, if not for both.

Then again, she might no longer be interested in that particular job due to the tense environment she would be most likely be working in if she felt that she otherwise had scored a victory and felt that the whole episode would not overly affect her ability to get another job doing what she wants to do.

[Eeyore]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Then again, she might no longer be interested in that particular job due to the tense environment she would be most likely be working in if she felt that she otherwise had scored a victory and felt that the whole episode would not overly affect her ability to get another job doing what she wants to do.

I don't think that going forward would affect the chances of her getting another job in coaching because probabilities can't fall below zero. She's completely radioactive at this point and no one is going to hire her: a coach whose best years are well in the past; whose recent performance has been less than stellar; is widely regarded as being difficult to work with on a daily basis; and has threatened to go nuclear over her last employer not renewing her contract.

Why in the world would anyone running a hockey team want to acquire that particular set of attributes?

[D2D]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Her tenure at UMD is over....In this case, Shannon Miller had no contract beyond the end of this season, so there isn't any contract going forward that UMD could be required to fulfill. So the possibility of a ruling for specific performance drops from "astoundingly unlikely" to "zero."

You may well be right (I'm no lawyer!) but I don't think "specific performance drops" will be the deciding factor as to where this will go. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see her (probable) suit - and the court's verdict - be based on a "gender equity" and/or a "sexual orientation equity" basis. In this realm - in an unusual case such as this - who knows what any court might decide? The abilities of her attorneys and the predisposition of the judge may very well determine the outcome. And the longer this could take, with possible appeals, the more uncertainly for their current players and recruits...

[Blackbeard]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

She's completely radioactive at this point and no one is going to hire her: a coach whose best years are well in the past; whose recent performance has been less than stellar; is widely regarded as being difficult to work with on a daily basis; and has threatened to go nuclear over her last employer not renewing her contract.

Why in the world would anyone running a hockey team want to acquire that particular set of attributes?

You're assuming that everyone would see things the way that you do. She, and others, might view things a lot differently.

[Eeyore]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

You're assuming that everyone would see things the way that you do. She, and others, might view things a lot differently.

I'm sure she does. I see no reason that a prospective employer wouldn't. That would have to be one hell of an interview.

[shelfit]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

I don't think that going forward would affect the chances of her getting another job in coaching because probabilities can't fall below zero. She's completely radioactive at this point and no one is going to hire her: a coach whose best years are well in the past; whose recent performance has been less than stellar; is widely regarded as being difficult to work with on a daily basis; and has threatened to go nuclear over her last employer not renewing her contract.

Why in the world would anyone running a hockey team want to acquire that particular set of attributes?

Maybe Lebanon Valley College would want to hire her for their new D-III women's program that is going to start in 2016-17. She'll love this part of their announcement: "Men’s coach Don Parsons will immediately begin to recruit the first class for the women’s team, while a national search will start immediately for a permanent women’s coach that will start in the summer of 2016." He's the current men's club team coach, has no apparent women's coaching background, but he's going to recruit the team for the new women's coach that is supposed to start working there in the summer of 2016. Wow, what a backwards way to get things started! Why wouldn't they hire an experienced women's hockey coach to recruit during the 2015-16 season and give the coach a full year to recruit before the team's first season of play like so many other recent new programs have done. The way they say they're going to go about it hints that maybe the men's coach is going to oversee the women's coach/program. Red flag!

[pokechecker]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

You're assuming that everyone would see things the way that you do. She might view things a lot differently.

if there is anything we know for certain, it is that she sees the world differently than the rest of us.
Blackbird can feel free to be included with "she"

if anyone is guilty of discrimination, it is Miller.
what are the mathematical odds that all the coaches/staff of a hockey team would be lesbian or gay?
if a private university wanted a gay/lesbian hockey team, that would certainly be their prerogative
but UMD is public
and Miller seems to have problems even with her own staff, it is like a revolving door

when you read the comments on Miller of her most decorated player, and former assistant, basically what she says is:
yeah, she's a b*tch, but she has good intentions
not exactly a glowing endorsement

[pokechecker]

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Maybe Lebanon Valley College would want to hire her for their new D-III women's program that is going to start in 2016-17. She'll love this part of their announcement: "Men’s coach Don Parsons will immediately begin to recruit the first class for the women’s team, while a national search will start immediately for a permanent women’s coach that will start in the summer of 2016." He's the current men's club team coach, has no apparent women's coaching background, but he's going to recruit the team for the new women's coach that is supposed to start working there in the summer of 2016. Wow, what a backwards way to get things started! Why wouldn't they hire an experienced women's hockey coach to recruit during the 2015-16 season and give the coach a full year to recruit before the team's first season of play like so many other recent new programs have done. The way they say they're going to go about it hints that maybe the men's coach is going to oversee the women's coach/program. Red flag!

maybe they have noticed what has happened at other schools, hiring a coach first , then recruiting players hasn't exactly worked out great elsewhere, at least not for the majority