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Thread: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreshFish View Post
    Ask Dr. Kermit Gosnell what happens when you do not do that....
    And he went to prison for murder.
    Try again.

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    Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    What if Timothy A and Joe stopped whining about abortion? Maybe in their spare time they could've cured cancer!
    what if they gave a **** about millions that are going to lose health insurance and the 10s of thousands of real people (not clumps of cells) that are going to die every year without proper healthcare?

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    Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FreshFish View Post
    In other words, it is a good solution in theory, just hard to apply right now.

    I don't have the statistics handy, I think that 85% of people who consider themselves pro-choice are also opposed to partial-birth abortions.

    In practice, one could at least craft a fairly broad compromise that says, if the infant can survive on its own outside the womb, then you can't kill it, even if you do remove it. I have no doubt that there are many organizations that would gladly accept responsibility to nourish and protect that life, through infancy into adulthood.
    The earlier you take a child from the mother's womb, the less developed the child is, obviously. Right now doctors are worried about brain development of children delivered prior to the 36th week, and really every week prior to the 38th or 39th, let alone the 13th week. Even if the rest of the body had already developed by then, we run the risk of so many adverse health conditions to these fetii that you're looking at decades or, more likely, centuries of medical advancements before what you're proposing could ever be feasible.
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

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    Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BassAle View Post
    what if they gave a **** about millions that are going to lose health insurance and the 10s of thousands of real people (not clumps of cells) that are going to die every year without proper healthcare?
    Or black kids who are cannon fodder for cops.

    But only fetuses matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    Random thought...

    Option 1....It's not all about "woman control", the guy can just as easily say no and keep his dick in his pants. (Though I do love the Offspring song Self Esteem....."it's kinda hard when she's ready to go!" LOL.)

    Option 2....You don't need cheap birth control, you don't need any birth control at all. Don't have sex until you are married. Problem solved and it didn't cost a dime and there's no need for violence. You also virtually end STD's. Now 2 problems are solved at once. The country saves hundreds of millions of dollars by not having to deal with abortions and STD's. The money that is not spent could be funneled into something much more important like cancer research.

    Option 3....if you are that absolutely stupid to have unprotected sex in this day and age, you reap what you sow. Come on. Do I want them handed out free at school, of course not. I want abstinence. But if you are heck bent on getting it on, buy some condoms you idiots. Just realize only abstinence is 100% foolproof.

    That being said, abortion being legal doesn't bother me a ton, because it's easily preventable and the choice to have an abortion comes down to you and God, just like committing any sin comes down to you and God. Carrying a child for 9 months is a pretty short time period when compared to eternity in Hell, if you don't repent.

    Big picture thought...Has anyone besides me ever considered that back in 1972 someone aborted a child who would have cured cancer or some other horrible disease as an adult? Has someone's selfishness denied the entire human race relief from a torturous thing? Very possibly yes.
    Random thought: You are horribly sexually repressed. Try doggy style, it'll open your eyes to a whole new world.

    Big picture thought: Has anyone besides me ever considered that since 1981 there are millions of kids who grew up with a poor education simply because of where they lived that could've cured cancer? The millions of kids who died of hunger? How about the millions of homosexual kids who killed themselves rather than face a society hostile to them? How about the millions of kids killed in gun accidents because we don't have effective gun control laws? How about all the people killed in two unnecessary wars? All the people killed as a result of the drug wars? The people killed or doomed to extreme poverty because of our terrible foreign policy?

    Here's a hint: Maybe stop concerning yourself with the unborn and actually start caring about the ones already born.

  6. #286
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    Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    Random thought: You are horribly sexually repressed. Try doggy style, it'll open your eyes to a whole new world.
    Or cowgirl, but that might be a little more of a mind blowing concept than opening new worlds.

    Big picture thought: Has anyone besides me ever considered that since 1981 there are millions of kids who grew up with a poor education simply because of where they lived that could've cured cancer? The millions of kids who died of hunger? How about the millions of homosexual kids who killed themselves rather than face a society hostile to them? How about the millions of kids killed in gun accidents because we don't have effective gun control laws? How about all the people killed in two unnecessary wars? All the people killed as a result of the drug wars? The people killed or doomed to extreme poverty because of our terrible foreign policy?

    Here's a hint: Maybe stop concerning yourself with the unborn and actually start caring about the ones already born.
    You're throwing around that word "millions" awfully loosely with kids dying from homosexual-related suicides and gun accidents over the last 35 years.
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    Women and I have an understanding. They tend to stay away from me, and I tend to understand that I'm repulsive to them. It's not my favorite understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    Or cowgirl, but that might be a little more of a mind blowing concept than opening new worlds.
    One step at a time man.

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    You're throwing around that word "millions" awfully loosely with kids dying from homosexual-related suicides and gun accidents over the last 35 years.
    Forgive the hyperbole, I was rolling...

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    Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by unofun View Post
    And he went to prison for murder.
    which was exactly my point!






    Me (start): OK to remove fetus, just keep child alive instead of kill it.
    You (snark): where can you do it?
    Me (calmly): here is what happens when you do not keep the child alive after you remove it
    You: you get convicted of murder, which reinforces what I had said.
    "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

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    Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    The earlier you take a child from the mother's womb, the less developed the child is, obviously. Right now doctors are worried about brain development of children delivered prior to the 36th week, and really every week prior to the 38th or 39th, let alone the 13th week. Even if the rest of the body had already developed by then, we run the risk of so many adverse health conditions to these fetii that you're looking at decades or, more likely, centuries of medical advancements before what you're proposing could ever be feasible.
    What I'm proposing is totally feasible from around the 7th month or so onward, according to your post.

    Kepler and I are pretty much in total agreement on this point, surprisingly. If "it" can survive on "its" own, you can't kill "it."

    If "it" cannot survive on "its" own, while "it" is indeed a living being (it has its own heartbeat), it is not at all clear whether "it" is a living human being or not. I tend to sidestep what to do in those situations as I am not comfortable with either alternative, and try to deflect toward using preventive steps ahead of time and using the "morning after" pill if you forget to do so. IF the pregnancy is going to be terminated, then the sooner the better.
    "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

    "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

    "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

    "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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    Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    Or black kids who are [killed by other black kids in gang warfare, often innocent bystanders who get shot when the shooter misses his/her target].

    But only fetuses matter.
    "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

    "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

    "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

    "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

  11. #291
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    Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FreshFish View Post
    What I'm proposing is totally feasible from around the 7th month or so onward, according to your post.

    Kepler and I are pretty much in total agreement on this point, surprisingly. If "it" can survive on "its" own, you can't kill "it."

    If "it" cannot survive on "its" own, while "it" is indeed a living being (it has its own heartbeat), it is not at all clear whether "it" is a living human being or not. I tend to sidestep what to do in those situations as I am not comfortable with either alternative, and try to deflect toward using preventive steps ahead of time and using the "morning after" pill if you forget to do so. IF the pregnancy is going to be terminated, then the sooner the better.
    A) Define on "its own". Does being hooked up to premature life support systems in incubation pods (don't know the specific words) count as living on its own?

    B) Who pays for the enormous medical costs associated with these children when the mothers don't want them?
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    Women and I have an understanding. They tend to stay away from me, and I tend to understand that I'm repulsive to them. It's not my favorite understanding.

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    Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    Here's a hint: Maybe ... concern yourself [both] with the unborn and ... the ones already born [as well].
    That seems reasonable. Hard to argue with that sentiment!
    "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

    "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

    "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

    "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

  13. #293
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    Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    A) Define on "its own". Does being hooked up to premature life support systems in incubation pods (don't know the specific words) count as living on its own?

    B) Who pays for the enormous medical costs associated with these children when the mothers don't want them?
    Also, what happens if having the baby threatens the life of the mother. An awful choice but why is that the State's choice to make?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreshFish View Post
    That seems reasonable. Hard to argue with that sentiment!

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    Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    A) Define on "its own".
    That seems like a place where a reasonable societal consensus can be achieved. and it doesn't have to happen all at once, incremental steps are fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    B) Who pays for the enormous medical costs associated with these children when the mothers don't want them?
    Who pays to feed, clothe, and house infants and toddlers who have been removed from their mothers due to horrific child abuse? No one here would be comfortable letting a small child get beaten daily or starved, I assume....if so, then someone has to pay to care for those children who have been rescued. This is merely an extension of what we already have in place.



    No doubt that Catholic Charities, Mormon Church, et all, would gladly do so. Most of the people who have attended the March For Life every year since 1974 would happily contribute to support it.
    "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

    "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

    "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

    "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

  16. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreshFish View Post
    which was exactly my point!






    Me (start): OK to remove fetus, just keep child alive instead of kill it.
    You (snark): where can you do it?
    Me (calmly): here is what happens when you do not keep the child alive after you remove it
    You: you get convicted of murder, which reinforces what I had said.
    If that's what you think just happened, I'll take a hit of whatever drug you're on.

    You propose a solution out of a Sci-fi novel, and wonder why no one takes you seriously.

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    Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FreshFish View Post
    Says the guy who has no interest in fixing these neighborhoods or enacting meaningful gun laws.

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    Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FreshFish View Post
    That seems like a place where a reasonable societal consensus can be achieved. and it doesn't have to happen all at once, incremental steps are fine.

    Who pays to feed, clothe, and house infants and toddlers who have been removed from their mothers due to horrific child abuse? No one here would be comfortable letting a small child get beaten daily or starved, I assume....if so, then someone has to pay to care for those children who have been rescued. This is merely an extension of what we already have in place.



    No doubt that Catholic Charities, Mormon Church, et all, would gladly do so. Most of the people who have attended the March For Life every year since 1974 would happily contribute to support it.
    You're proposing a huge burden on our Child Protective Services, or whatever each state calls their respective agency. These people are already overworked and underfunded for the tasks we've assigned them, but you want to add on the medical bills amount to hundreds of thousands of dollars per child in incubation. That's not realistic.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3180163/

    The average direct cost of care for initial hospitalization of a premature newborn in 2004 was $2,386 USD. Total hospital expenses and professional services for all premature infants in this hospital were $227,000 and $69,500 USD, respectively. The costs for diagnostic testing and blood products for all premature infants totaled $22,440 and $1,833 USD. The daily average cost of a premature newborn weighing less than 1,000 g was $115 USD, and the daily average cost of a premature newborn weighing more than 2,500 g was $89 USD. Amounts reimbursed to the hospital by the Unified Health System corresponded to only 27.42% of the real cost of care.
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    Women and I have an understanding. They tend to stay away from me, and I tend to understand that I'm repulsive to them. It's not my favorite understanding.

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    Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    You're proposing a huge burden on our Child Protective Services, or whatever each state calls their respective agency. These people are already overworked and underfunded for the tasks we've assigned them, but you want to add on the medical bills amount to hundreds of thousands of dollars per child in incubation. That's not realistic.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3180163/
    Brazil? Those figures are beyond low. My daughter was born at just under 31 weeks in 2004 and her hospital stay was about $250k, at least before insurance worked it's magic and I'm sure paid them something less.

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    Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jerphisch View Post
    Brazil? Those figures are beyond low. My daughter was born at just under 31 weeks in 2004 and her hospital stay was about $250k, at least before insurance worked it's magic and I'm sure paid them something less.
    I was taking one of the first offerings from my search, figuring that their costs were lower than ours. Still, it illustrated perfectly the cost to the system - $292,500 in hospital resources for the average premature baby.
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    Women and I have an understanding. They tend to stay away from me, and I tend to understand that I'm repulsive to them. It's not my favorite understanding.

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