2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

I'm curious why the GOP establishment is still scared of another shutdown. Didn't we just learn that there aren't any consequences for being blamed for shutdowns?

It makes Wall Street nervous. If it were just the poor who got screwed, they'd be on it like white on thugs.

[joecct]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

I'm curious why the GOP establishment is still scared of another shutdown. Didn't we just learn that there aren't any consequences for being blamed for shutdowns?

And what exactly didn't work during the last shutdown?

[GrinCDXX]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

And what exactly didn't work during the last shutdown?

I don't believe I made any comment on that. My point in its entirety was that the GOP was demonstrably blamed more than the President or the Democrats by the public but it didn't really cause them any harm.

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

And what exactly didn't work during the last shutdown?

I seem to recall the GOP making a lot of noise about WWII memorials being closed...but I'm sure I'm misremembering.

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

I don't believe I made any comment on that. My point in its entirety was that the GOP was demonstrably blamed more than the President or the Democrats by the public but it didn't really cause them any harm.

It may have harmed them. Prior to the shutdown they had Congressional Dems on the run, but the shutdown gave the Congressional GOP something like a 7% approval rating and destroyed any chance they had of constructing a positive legislative platform. As it turns out, the Dems were paralyzed with Fear Of A Black President, but a more aggressive leadership could have seized the initiative and made the GOP eat it. After all, Obama figured it out -- it's sheer dumb luck for the bad guys that Harry didn't.

[St. Clown]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

I seem to recall the GOP making a lot of noise about WWII memorials being closed...but I'm sure I'm misremembering.

Yes, they were mad because those shutdowns were done with the express purpose of upsetting people, and the Republicans took the bait. There was no cost to keeping those memorials open, and it actually cost the government more to close them, but it created a disruption that was visible to the public at large. The few services that actually were cut back during the slowdown were all services that the average person wouldn't ever see, so the impacts were neglible to the general public. That's why the memorials were closed to the public.

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

As if the shutdown itself wasn't just posturing by the GOP.

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

As if the shutdown itself wasn't just posturing by the GOP.

The shutdown was a principled stand by the party that put two wars, a Wall Street bailout and a gift to the drug companies on the credit card.

Remember, 'Deficits don't matter (unless a Democrat is in the White House).'

[St. Clown]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

As if the shutdown itself wasn't just posturing by the GOP.

Yeah, mostly. But they could have played the war memorial shutdowns differently than they did, using them to their advantage. Instead, all the GOP did was holler and make fools of themselves.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

The shutdown was a principled stand by the party that put two wars, a Wall Street bailout and a gift to the drug companies on the credit card.

Remember, 'Deficits don't matter (unless a Democrat is in the White House).'

Ding Ding Ding.

[SJHovey]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

The shutdown was a principled stand by the party that put two wars, a Wall Street bailout and a gift to the drug companies on the credit card.

Remember, 'Deficits don't matter (unless a Democrat is in the White House).'

Not that facts are that important but the Wall Street bailout vote in early October 2008 was as follows:

Senate Republicans

34 yea
15 nay

Senate Democrats

39 yea
9 nay

Senate Independents

1 yea
1 nay

Kennedy didn't vote

House Republicans

91 yea
108 nay

House Democrats

172 yea
63 nay

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

Not that facts are that important but the Wall Street bailout vote in early October 2008 was as follows

Oh, for Pete's sake...

Those House GOPers were only able to do that because the Dems gave them cover. That was one of the great orchestrated votes of all time -- anybody who thinks party affiliation had anything to do with it (either way) has zero knowledge of how DC actually works.

Take a look at the Senate vote. Those are the rough percentages you would have seen in the House if it hadn't been fixed. That was a conspiracy of the center of both parties against the flanks: the good guys in that scenario were liberals and the hard core knucks, but enough were chewed off that they couldn't stop the bailout.

But here's the thing -- nothing prevents a future Congress from going back and imposing severe sanctions and regulations on the financial institutions that stole trillions from the country. So, you guys are in power now -- we should expect that any day from you now, right?

[SJHovey]

Oh, for Pete's sake...

Those House GOPers were only able to do that because the Dems gave them cover. That was one of the great orchestrated votes of all time -- anybody who thinks party affiliation had anything to do with it (either way) has zero knowledge of how DC actually works.

Take a look at the Senate vote. Those are the rough percentages you would have seen in the House if it hadn't been fixed. That was a conspiracy of the center of both parties against the flanks: the good guys in that scenario were liberals and the hard core knucks, but enough were chewed off that they couldn't stop the bailout.

But here's the thing -- nothing prevents a future Congress from going back and imposing severe sanctions and regulations on the financial institutions that stole trillions from the country. So, you guys are in power now -- we should expect that any day from you now, right?

I don't think party affiliation had anything to do with it. You're mistaking me for Priceless.

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

I don't think party affiliation had anything to do with it. You're mistaking me for Priceless.

I'm sorry. Tories have tried like hell to paint this as "Obama's Bailout" and you know that isn't true. He wasn't yet president when all this happened. Hell, he wasn't even President-elect yet! Remember McCain suspending his campaign to deal with the crisis?

The national debt, and an annual deficit, was a non-factor until a Democrat was president - then it became a life or death issue. It's funny the Tories are making such a noise about it, since the annual deficit keeps shrinking...you'd think they'd be celebrating Obama's success.

[joecct]

I'm sorry. Tories have tried like hell to paint this as "Obama's Bailout" and you know that isn't true. He wasn't yet president when all this happened. Hell, he wasn't even President-elect yet! Remember McCain suspending his campaign to deal with the crisis?

The national debt, and an annual deficit, was a non-factor until a Democrat was president - then it became a life or death issue. It's funny the Tories are making such a noise about it, since the annual deficit keeps shrinking...you'd think they'd be celebrating Obama's success.

And the GOP was summarily booted from all control of the federal government. It could have stayed that way for a while but hubris invaded the soul of the Democratic party and they overreached and were booted in 2010 & 2014.

Now let's see if the GOP had learned it's lesson.