Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

[mookie1995]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

This is like saying Bill Buckner didn't lose the 6th game, Bob Stanley did. It's false precision -- there were several important factors.

I have no doubt voter suppression won't last long -- just a cycle or two until there are so many stories about elderly WHITE people who get their rights stolen that the press and the average voter start caring. But as we saw, again, in 2000, one election can do decades worth of damage to the country. This incarnation of the GOP is more vain and inept than the last, which was homicidal and inept, but eventually they'll come up with A Plan, and then they'll be formidable again. The best thing we can do is ensure they keep losing until they exorcise the crazier elements because if not those elements will wield power again someday.

play 'what if' with me...

if algore was pres how would that have played out?

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

He was our mole.

The headline after Game 6 should have been "Snodgrass avenged"

[LynahFan]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

What do you recommend as an example of a fair voter ID law?

I realize that this is 100% a cop out, but I suspect it varies by state, depending on what ID processes the state has in place, etc. Whatever the case may be, the list of valid IDs should be as broad as possible to try to encompass as much of the electorate as possible to minimize the additional burden on voters to the greatest extent possible.

I totally get the visceral reaction of "you oppose voter ID -- you must be advocating fraud."

I don't think people who oppose voter ID actually WANT fraud, but I do think they're too cavalier about it.

But I also get that the practical consequence (not to mention: the aim) of many of these laws introduced by the GOP is a hamfisted attempt to suppress the votes of people they don't want to count.

Completely agree. Those laws, and those people, suck.

[LynahFan]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

Bad reasoning. The idea of voter misinformation and suppression is to influence around the margins, and if 2000 taught us anything it's that the margins matter.

Exactly, and this is the reasoning that causes me to SUPPORT voter ID. If there's an election that should come out to 5000 for A and 4990 for B, which is the bigger travesty: for B to slip in 20 fraudulent votes or for B to suppress 20 of A's votes?

To me, those would be the exact same level of malfeasance, and both should be guarded against. Voter ID solves the first, and as long as the voting requirements are clear, published far in advance, and free for people who need the assistance, then that (in my mind) takes care of the second.

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

Somebody needs to send him out for an extended golf trip to Argentina.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...s/?tid=HP_more

This reminds me of the debate in the House of Commons when then PM Neville Chamberlain appealed to partisan politics on the vote in the conduct of the war.

It cost him his job.

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

Exactly, and this is the reasoning that causes me to SUPPORT voter ID. If there's an election that should come out to 5000 for A and 4990 for B, which is the bigger travesty: for B to slip in 20 fraudulent votes or for B to suppress 20 of A's votes?

I would argue that we're talking about 2 fraudulent votes vs 20,000 suppressed votes, however...

To me, those would be the exact same level of malfeasance, and both should be guarded against. Voter ID solves the first, and as long as the voting requirements are clear, published far in advance, and free for people who need the assistance, then that (in my mind) takes care of the second.

... if a method can be designed so that every eligible voter automatically and free of charge has voter ID delivered to them, whether by internet, snail mail, courier pigeon, sled dog or diving bell, then sure we can talk. The burden should be on the state to deny a person's vote, not on a person to prove they have the right.

[LynahFan]

I would argue that we're talking about 2 fraudulent votes vs 20,000 suppressed votes, however...



... if a method can be designed so that every eligible voter automatically and free of charge has voter ID delivered to them, whether by internet, snail mail, courier pigeon, sled dog or diving bell, then sure we can talk. The burden should be on the state to deny a person's vote, not on a person to prove they have the right.

If it's really as few as 20,000, I am perfectly happy with the state raising taxes enough to cover the cost. Sign me up.

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

More on the (lack of a) Surgeon General. Harry has never brought the nomination to the floor.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nati...dyL/story.html

[goldy_331]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

More on the (lack of a) Surgeon General. Harry has never brought the nomination to the floor.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nati...dyL/story.html

But, but, it's the Republicans' fault! Rachel Maddow said so!

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

But, but, it's the Republicans' fault! Rachel Maddow said so!

1. I never said it was the Republican Parties fault. I blamed Ted Cruz. Two different things.
2. Rachel Maddow doesn't write those articles.

There is bipartisan blame to go around. I think the majority of the blame goes to a system where no one can get appointed to anything because no one can get support from both sides anymore. In fact I can't think of a single person in government who is bipartisan.

The President should be able to get his appointments through. Bush did. Supreme Court cause it's for life is a little different.

[goldy_331]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

1. I never said it was the Republican Parties fault. I blamed Ted Cruz. Two different things.
2. Rachel Maddow doesn't write those articles.

There is bipartisan blame to go around. I think the majority of the blame goes to a system where no one can get appointed to anything because no one can get support from both sides anymore. In fact I can't think of a single person in government who is bipartisan.

The President should be able to get his appointments through. Bush did. Supreme Court cause it's for life is a little different.

From the article you cited "Republicans own this. "

What did Ted Cruz do, kidnap Harry's puppy? The Dems have 55 Senate seats, they don't need the Repubs to agree in order to appoint anyone, they just need a palatable enough candidate to get 51 of their 55 members to vote yes. If they can't get 51 votes behind the Pres's appointment, maybe there is something wrong with the appointee.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

From the article you cited "Republicans own this. "

What did Ted Cruz do, kidnap Harry's puppy? The Dems have 55 Senate seats, they don't need the Repubs to agree in order to appoint anyone, they just need a palatable enough candidate to get 51 of their 55 members to vote yes. If they can't get 51 votes behind the Pres's appointment, maybe there is something wrong with the appointee.

It's a little more complicated than that. Consider that a number of Democrats do not want the President in their state campaigning for them and extrapolate from there. The candidate is highly qualified and his position on one issue is keeping him out of office. We have so many litmus tests on issues right now any candidate is going to have an impossible time getting through a split Senate even with the new rules.

My guess is after the election the Democrats will ram rod it through, but if the Republicans do take over the Senate (90% chance of that happening) then we will not have a Surgeon General the rest of Obama's term.

It's staggering how many positions are unfilled.

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

Oh, Cheeseheads...

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

If nothing else, this guy could not have been anything else in life but a Young Republican. Central Casting, your d0uchebag has broken loose.

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

Joe Stalin offers this insight on elections

“What matters is not who votes; what matters is who counts votes.”